Amish say they don't want their photo on state ids

[maybeizfundie]

I agree, and I have nothing against the Amish in particular.

And they might just find a way to function without it, or find a bank or private company that would help them do so. I remember NPR did an interesting story on a banker who lends to the Amish pretty much on their terms. He said he was happy to do so because they are very likely to pay back every penny, and if one were not inclined to pay, there is huuuuuge social pressure from the Amish community to make good on debts. They have found ways to live without insurance and still pay bills, and other ways to manage in this world without changing their beliefs radically, so they can probably manage with this issue too.

[Boogalou]

A similar case to this came up in Canada. The Hutterites out on the prairies wanted to have drivers licenses but have similar restrictions against taking photos as the Amish. The case went to court and it was determined that while people do in fact have the right ro practice their own religion having a license is not a right, it is a privelege, so the photo-less licenses were a no-go. It makes sense to me.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

I see no point to identification if it doesn't include a photo. Can you imagine just going by a physical description? About 5 Amish men of different builds/eye color/hair color could get IDs and the entire group could take turns with them.

If they want to be a part of a society that requires photo ID, then they need to adapt. I harbor no romanticized illusions about them and their way of life, so they get no sympathy from me. I'll be upset if my neighboring state of IL okays this and sets a precedent.

[DamnPrecious]

I've seen photo less id's before from Indiana. My friend had one when she lived out of state and couldn't get back to Indiana to get one.

[treemom]

It sounds a little hyprocritical on the Amish part. On one hand, they want to live seperated from the modern world. Their children, for the most part, are only educate to the eighth grade, for example. Yet, they want some of the amenities of living in modern America-a bank account, to cash savings bonds etc

Because it is impossible to operate with out some of the modern "Amenities"

[treemom]

Although to be fair, driver's liscenses were not intended to be ID's for all those other things...that is what they grew up to be. At one point those above a certain age in TN don't have to have pictures taken. And goodness knows elderly commit crimes too.

I am in favor of not granting the exception, but I am surprised at home many here basically are saying SUCK IT Amish. But hey, we are typically consistent :)

[SquirrelySquirrel]

I am in favor of not granting the exception, but I am surprised at home many here basically are saying SUCK IT Amish. But hey, we are typically consistent :)

LOL. Well, I'd be saying SUCK IT to anyone in this case. I believe a photo is a vital part of identification and that an ID is basically worthless without it. And Amish live the way they do to NOT be a part of society, so if they want to cherry pick certain aspects of our evil lives on the outside to partake in, they need to be willing to deal with our rules as well.

[demgirl]

Although to be fair, driver's liscenses were not intended to be ID's for all those other things...that is what they grew up to be. At one point those above a certain age in TN don't have to have pictures taken. And goodness knows elderly commit crimes too.

I am in favor of not granting the exception, but I am surprised at home many here basically are saying SUCK IT Amish. But hey, we are typically consistent :)

Hee hee. I've missed you treemom! I have some issues with the Amish, I have to admit, so maybe I'm less sympathetic than I should be. I really don't like a lot of their practices, particularly shunning and limiting education to 8th grade (if that), and of course the patriarchal aspects. But I do think I'd feel this way regardless of the religion in question.

[alphaeta08]

Amish sidenote: my dad grew up around Amish people, like 1/3 of his class was Amish (until high school, of course). Neither of us even knows how they get away with pulling their kids out of school at the age of 14. As far as I know, no state allows anyone to drop out at that age, so do they lie and say they're "homeschooling" after eighth grade? Do the authorities just look the other way because it's the Amish and everyone knows how they operate?

[demgirl]

There was a Supreme Court case called Wisconsin v. Yoder that decided the issue, alphaeta08.

For more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_v._Yoder

[mythoughtis]

Some states, Illinois being one, do allow the Amish to pull their children out of school at 14. They are the only class of people that can. The story was that Amish didn't need any more education to live their lives. However, it pretty much defeats the purpose of Rumspringa (the time between 16 and 21, when Amish children can explore the real world before choosing their lifestyle) due to that lack of education.

I think Illinois should require all children to attend school until they are 18 or have graduated, or gotten their GED.

[alphaeta08]

There was a Supreme Court case called Wisconsin v. Yoder that decided the issue, alphaeta08.

For more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_v._Yoder

Very interesting. I'm now disappointed I didn't think of creating my own religion that didn't believe in going to high school. It was boring, and I'm much rather have stayed home sewing monochromatic dresses. Hey, it would've been more fun than calculus. I kind of can't believe the Supreme Court caved to the bs. Religion just... isn't an excuse, and it's slightly annoying that so many people think the Amish are special, harmless snowflakes. I'm not saying they're on the same level as some of our fundies, but it's just so ridiculous.

I mean, depending on the job, a lot of people probably don't need a whole lot of school after eighth grade, so can they leave, too? I know I could do my cashiering job with an eighth grade education; why did I waste so much time? :roll:

[ChickeyMonkey]

Where's the "Like" button for your post, alphabeta08? Cuz I love your post.

[debrand]

Although to be fair, driver's liscenses were not intended to be ID's for all those other things...that is what they grew up to be. At one point those above a certain age in TN don't have to have pictures taken. And goodness knows elderly commit crimes too.

I am in favor of not granting the exception, but I am surprised at home many here basically are saying SUCK IT Amish. But hey, we are typically consistent :)

I have no doubt that the elderly commit crimes. It's very possible that a few are invovled in identity theft also. Because I view elderly people as human beings, capable of good and bad, I think that TN should require a photo ID from them also. Besides what does the law in TN have to do with the laws in Illinois? I didn't mean that last question to come off rude, by the way.

I was going to say that it is nice to see you again, treemom. And than I realized that would sound stupid because I can't really see you. :lol: How about it's nice to see your avatar again?

[debrand]

Very interesting. I'm now disappointed I didn't think of creating my own religion that didn't believe in going to high school. It was boring, and I'm much rather have stayed home sewing monochromatic dresses. Hey, it would've been more fun than calculus. I kind of can't believe the Supreme Court caved to the bs. Religion just... isn't an excuse, and it's slightly annoying that so many people think the Amish are special, harmless snowflakes. I'm not saying they're on the same level as some of our fundies, but it's just so ridiculous.

I mean, depending on the job, a lot of people probably don't need a whole lot of school after eighth grade, so can they leave, too? I know I could do my cashiering job with an eighth grade education; why did I waste so much time? :roll:

I have no problem with individuals practicing their own religious. What I have problems with are people being forced to practice a religion. If you make it so that a child can't compete in the workforce by denying him an education, isn't that a type of force?

[treemom]

I have no doubt that the elderly commit crimes. It's very possible that a few are invovled in identity theft also. Because I view elderly people as human beings, capable of good and bad, I think that TN should require a photo ID from them also. Besides what does the law in TN have to do with the laws in Illinois? I didn't mean that last question to come off rude, by the way.

I was going to say that it is nice to see you again, treemom. And than I realized that would sound stupid because I can't really see you. :lol: How about it's nice to see your avatar again?

I am pointing out that it isn't like this is that unique of a request, exception.

And also pointing out that the original intent of drver's liscense was not to become a de facto photo Id. And you know, theAmish in question still won't have a photo Id. They will just be able to drive cars.

I am no fan nor do I hold romanticized views of Amish. I grew up in nw Indiana where there is a large community. Like all people some were nice some weren't. And I don't support the exception...I am just not sure it is reasonable to draw the conclusions some are drawing here.

I also view the Amish as a different sort of patriarchy than say the hotline or the maxwells. They are insular and aren't recruiting. So it is bad for their community in my opinion, but they aren't out there trying to convince others that this is the one true way and they should do as the amish do.

[demgirl]

Some states, Illinois being one, do allow the Amish to pull their children out of school at 14. They are the only class of people that can. The story was that Amish didn't need any more education to live their lives. However, it pretty much defeats the purpose of Rumspringa (the time between 16 and 21, when Amish children can explore the real world before choosing their lifestyle) due to that lack of education.

I think Illinois should require all children to attend school until they are 18 or have graduated, or gotten their GED.

I agree in principle, but it's not the states choice in this particular instance. The Supreme Court told the states that they cannot require Amish children to attend school past 8th grade. It's an interesting read (the decision), although I disagree with the decision itself.