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Doug Phillips is a Tool & Vision Forum is Dead - Part 7


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So, I'm still waiting for someone to answer if this is a women-only forum?

Are you a woman? If not, than the answer is obviously no.

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usmcmom

Westchamps said: "You still don't seem to quite understand. I'm not chiding you for your language, as I don't expect you to have clean, wholesome language. I do expect Christians to."

I don't think YOU understand, Westchamps. Christianity isn't about what YOU expect. It's about what each person believes Christ expects of him or her.

I have to hand it to you, though. You do seem to have a better writing style than the last couple of men who came along to scold us, though you are no less arrogant nor less condescending. In fact, I think you are even MORE mean spirited and hostile than they were. They at least started out trying to play nice. You do show the same lack of humility and compassion that seems to be so common in men like you.

And I don't believe for one minute that you joined FJ to "find information."

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westchamps
Against my better judgement, I'm going to ask westchamp a question. You said in your very first post that you came here looking for info about the Dougie scandal. It has been mentioned at least once (by Thoightful?) that we don't have any inside info. We get our info from other sources, and since this is a SNARK SITE, we SNARK. And speculate. I think you would agree that you're not going to find the info you're looking for here at FJ. So I guess my question isn't why are you here, but rather why are you still here? I'm not going to argue with you, I don't give a rat's ass about the other topics that you have addressed with the other posters. I just want to know one thing--what are you STILL doing here?

Pretty sure I've already answered that elsewhere. Sorry that didn't satisfy you.

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westchamps

Having been raised in the fundamental Christian lifestyle it was shocking to me when I found out that there were Christians who didn't believe like I did. It seems like you are just discovering this concept. I remember meeting Christians who believed in women pastors, gay marriage, evolution, egalitarian marriages, and that the Bible wasn't literally true and it was shocking at first. When you have been raised that way your mind has been trained to shut out anything that doesn't fit into the narrow interpretation that the Christian fundamentalists leaders tell you is the way to interpret the Bible. And yes, the first reaction is to try and shame the Christians who don't believe like you do, but I hope that you, like so many others have done, can learn to understand that not every Christian is going to agree with how you interpret the Bible and that is okay. And it doesn't mean that they are worse Christians than you or that you are better in any way.

One of the attractions of fundamental Christians beliefs is that it gives people a sense that they are better than all others. That they have the only right way to interpret the Bible. That they have the only right way to believe. And if they meet people who believe differently they can smugly think about how they are sooooo much better than those "bad" Christians. And now that I am out of this mindset I can see that it is built around pride and making people feel superior to others.

If you can't believe that the Bible means what it says, then what, exactly, is the point of being a Christian, and if you don't follow Biblical teachings, then how would anyone ever know that you were a Christian?

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westchamps

:evil-eye:

He knew all those guys that preach prosperity gospel, but he's never heard of Driscoll? Color me an unbeliever.

I knew who those guys were because they're a bunch of charlatans, and because at one time almost 30 years ago my mother got caught up in their teachings. Thankfully, that didn't last long.

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thoughtful

Thoughtful, yes! Yes, yes!

Glad you liked it -- Westchampingatthebit seems to have completely ignored it so he could accuse me of implying things.

Ah, well . . .

yRJoOlb.jpg

ETA -- hey, Westchamps, since you are back -- what do you think of the lawsuit? Have you read the complaint?

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doggie

if the it's gods opinion not mine card is played again I am gonna go all Linsey Lohan on our visitor. sorry quoting the bible is you not god. just because it says something in the bible does not mean it is what god wants. He is not stuck in the year 0 and I am sure he knows men will change and does not stick with a 2000 year old script.

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Curious
Westchamps said: "You still don't seem to quite understand. I'm not chiding you for your language, as I don't expect you to have clean, wholesome language. I do expect Christians to."

I don't think YOU understand, Westchamps. Christianity isn't about what YOU expect. It's about what each person believes Christ expects of him or her.

I have to hand it to you, though. You do seem to have a better writing style than the last couple of men who came along to scold us, though you are no less arrogant nor less condescending. In fact, I think you are even MORE mean spirited and hostile than they were. They at least started out trying to play nice. You do show the same lack of humility and compassion that seems to be so common in men like you.

And I don't believe for one minute that you joined FJ to "find information."

Particularly since you can read any of the relevant threads without having to register (or post)

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feministxtian

If you can't believe that the Bible means what it says, then what, exactly, is the point of being a Christian, and if you don't follow Biblical teachings, then how would anyone ever know that you were a Christian?

Biblical teachings according to whom? You? Doug Phillips? Bill Gothard? The Pope? I personally don't feel the need to wear my "nice little Christian girl" outfit anymore at all. I prefer to ACT on my beliefs instead of spewing endless platitudes and being judgmental towards those who may not be like me. I seem to remember something about "love one another as I have loved you"...now, does that only apply to ignorant, stuck-up fundies like you or does it apply to everyone? I believe that it applies to everyone...unless and until they show their total assholeness and at that point I feel free to tell them to shut the fuck up and go the fuck away.

When it comes to patriarchal dickwads like you...well...your attitude tells me everything I need to know about you...you, like so many of your ilk suffer from little dick syndrome so you feel the need to beat your chest and puff yourself up because you're afraid of running into anyone who may be smarter, stronger, better educated, or just different than you. One day you will figure out that your manhood is not in danger because there are women who lead, women who are educated, women who don't take any shit from anyone. Me? Yeah...I gave up that sweet little SAHM shit years ago...right about the time I got sick of the X beating the shit out of me and the kids...so he could prove his manhood. So...fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

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Maxwell
Curious wrote:

Particularly since you can read any of the relevant threads without having to register (or post)

Maybe Westchamps is just working on post counts so he can go read the Chatter area... that's what I'm doing... I'm just not as prolific. ;) He's almost there too!

** Edited because I foolishly forgot to include the relevant quotes -- sorry **

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FundieWatcher

Westchamps, no this forum is not women only. Obviously. You are are here and a male. No one said it was women only. Nobody implied it. It is mostly women.

I answered your so answer mine...Why are you here? You don't think the Christians are real and you are indifferent to everyone else. And if you as smart as you think you are, you have figured out that no amount of throwing Bible verses around is going to change any minds about patriarchal stuff.

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westchamps

Would you deny using any of those words to refer to someone ever?

(Good morning to you too)

Yes, I would, and do deny it.

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lipstickgoalie

Have you gotten around to reading my response to you or are you still too gobsmacked?

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westchamps

The bible also says:

2 KINGS 6:29 says: "So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son."

So cannibalism is just peachy?

(FWIW- I think the Bible is a fanciful work of fiction, and must be treated as any piece of many times translated work, where much of the nuance and meaning has been lost to the ages. It's certainly not something that I would use as an instruction manual for life.)

I don't think that scripture is evidence that the Bible teaches cannibalism is a good thing. Try again.

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theologygeek

If you can't believe that the Bible means what it says, then what, exactly, is the point of being a Christian, and if you don't follow Biblical teachings, then how would anyone ever know that you were a Christian?

I've got news for you. You don't even believe that the bible means what it says. Beat means beat and stripes mean stripes. If you're not beating your children until you leave marks, then you don't follow biblical teachings either. And this is coming from a Jesus lover, so you can't pull the non Christian on me.

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doggie

according to ken ham the bible is absolute truth except the parts that are stories and not meant to be literal. Of course those parts are what someone chooses them to be. imagine how useful that is.

Have you or your father sold any of your sisters or daughters into slavery? right there in the bible.

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westchamps

You're missing the point; my parents are good people, but the worldview they were operating in was harmful. That much is obvious. Alternative education itself is not the issue—I plan to use alternative methods for my own kids in the future. It's the underlying ideological construct that makes the difference. I can do my own bit of bragging (even down to being principal of my section in a local orchestra), but I won't. I'm not a "prisoner of my past" and I did not make that post to whine, but to try to demonstrate a point, which apparently was not received. I will likely go back to college at some point when I have the available cash and time. I've done work for major companies myself. The fact that your sisters went to college makes it quite clear that you're fundie-lite and don't have the context that I'm coming from—you're defending a worldview that you haven't even participated in, at least fully. And please, stop with the nonsense about proms and high-school infatuations. That's about as much "real life" as the draconian environment fantasy that these people teach.

Doug Phillips has presented a false gospel; why do you insist on defending him? Your family clearly didn't follow him! You're not Calvinist, [female] members of your family went to college, etc. etc.—by his standards you're a heretic. Don't defend a man's teachings if you don't even align with them yourself.

If you mean, did we look at him as a God-like figure, revere him almost more than God, and hang on his every word, the answer is no. Same with Gothard. We were ATIA, but we did not revere Bill Gothard in the same way that many of his "followers" did. We definitely followed Doug's writings and speeches, though (in my later teens), and at least on a basic level were very much in agreement with much of what he taught. By the way, my parents were not comfortable with my sister going off to college, but they relented under pressure. Keep in mind this was also almost 25 years ago, before anyone even knew who Doug Phillips was and well before any "patriarchy" movement. We were fundamentalist Christians before it became a "popular" movement in homeschooling circles. But no, we never let Doug Phillips, or any other preacher, rule our lives with what he taught, especially if it was extra-Biblical.

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westchamps
Also, is using the "Foe" option for an annoying forum participant the same as the "Ignore" option in other forums? This would block their posts from your view. The "West-champs" person has the annoyance factor and relevance of a fly & I'm searching for a digital fly swatter.

I find it amusing how much I've gotten under the skin of so many of you here and how you "free-thinkers" alternately want to ban me or ignore me.

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westchamps

Re: bolded. Interesting, isn't it, that our manly man seems to have disappeared from view with the breaking news on Hero's filing. Where is he to defend the Patriarchy & the Patriarses and tell us this is all Hero's fault?

westchamps = chickenshit.

lol, nope, I'm still here. As I mentioned before, I do work for a living during the day. I'm responding to posts one at a time, as I have the time. Sorry to disappoint since you were so convinced that I had bugged out.

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westchamps
I get it now - the news about Hero's lawsuit against Doug Phillips was about to break, so Westchamps came on over to pay us a visit. "Golly gee, folks, he was a really nice guy, back in the day! And let's talk about that nasty ol' language y'all are using here!"

Yes, we certainly wouldn't want to use bad words about a man who began grooming his victim when she was 15 years old, now would we??

Utter coincidence, I can assure you. :lol:

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westchamps
Where is ol' Westchamps? Or did our coarse and vulgar language scare him off? Or maybe the lawsuit filed today is a little too much for him?

*Sigh*. I work during the day. Apparently many of you do not. So sorry I was missed by so many. Some of you want to alternately ban and ignore me and others of you just sit around wondering why in the heck I'm not around participating in the discussion. Make up your minds would ya'! :lol:

p.s. the only reason I'm on here at this late hour is because hard frost is threatening my fruit tree blooms and I'm staying up to watch the fires I've got going overnight to warm the air a bit.

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lipstickgoalie

Considering you have not bothered to answer even basic questions such as what your goal in being here is, yes some people want you to answer. Other people, like myself, want you to acknowledge our responses to your claims. Still other people think you quite the self important blowhard and don't want you around. We are a group of people with varied opinions and interests.

I personally think you owe me an apology for calling me ignorant and would like a response to my earlier comment. But I am not going to hold my breath.

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westchamps
It may be a minor point now in light of what came out today, but it is still galling that Beall and her rapist husband had unlimited access to what was slave labor. They can put whatever bs gloss about volunteering for the ministry they want, they had unpaid help. And not just Hero either.

I could raise a quiver too if I had unlimited free help who would fetch this, clean up that, and cook the other.

I never new it took outside help to raise a large family. Thanks for the info. Not sure what got into us, thinking we could raise a large family without outside help.

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westchamps

Why is that important? And why should we answer it?

Because people keep saying that I'm here to educate the "wimminz", as though I think they're all inferior to me in some way. As I mentioned before, except for a handful of usernames, I have no idea who here is a woman and who is a man.

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westchamps

No there are men here. I hope you read my(and several other posters) posts and realize a lot of us come from fundamental Christian backgrounds and have experienced the time of realizing there are Christians who don't believe like we do and that by stepping out of the box these beliefs have shoved us in we have grown into better people.

I don't know specifically how you were raised, but I personally have never felt "boxed in" by my beliefs.

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