Doug Phillips is a Tool & Vision Forum is Dead - Part 7

[karismanic]

First came Tool-o-ween, and now the lawsuit drops on April 15th, US tax filing deadline. Any creative FJer have ideas on what to call this holiday?

[Marian the Librarian]

I get it now - the news about Hero's lawsuit against Doug Phillips was about to break, so Westchamps came on over to pay us a visit. "Golly gee, folks, he was a really nice guy, back in the day! And let's talk about that nasty ol' language y'all are using here!"

Yes, we certainly wouldn't want to use bad words about a man who began grooming his victim when she was 15 years old, now would we??

[nokidsmom]

I get it now - the news about Hero's lawsuit against Doug Phillips was about to break, so Westchamps came on over to pay us a visit. "Golly gee, folks, he was a really nice guy, back in the day! And let's talk about that nasty ol' language y'all are using here!"

Yes, we certainly wouldn't want to use bad words about a man who began grooming his victim when she was 15 years old, now would we??

Westie obviously didn't read the TOU because his "bad language" admonitions were probably least effective deflection he could have used here. Even if we weren't talking about DPIAT.

[cindyluvs24]

Where does this so-called "Westchamps" get off coming here and telling us what kind of language to use? If he had any brains he would have checked out the Ken thread and realized that admionishments and bible quotes bounce off this forum like Cutex nail polish on aping pong ball (really dating myself).

By his own admission, he knew Doug years ago and isn't currently in touch with him. This adds up to aloof horseshit on his part. Oh, lots of Christians curse. So do Jews, Muslims, Budhists, and Hindus.( I'm not sure about Zoroastrians because I don't personally know any.)In conclusion, just go away.

[Othello]

First came Tool-o-ween, and now the lawsuit drops on April 15th, US tax filing deadline. Any creative FJer have ideas on what to call this holiday?

Doug's Day of Reckoning? Tool Tax?

It being the anniversary of the Titanic's sinking (a fact with which DP is well acquainted): The Wreck of the Tool-tanic. It was wrecked on its maiden voyage, no less.

And while I'm on a roll: As far as girls go, Doug has a Vision For 'em.

April 15th is also the anniversary of the death of Abraham Lincoln—thus it was probably a holiday for the hardcore VF crowd until 2014 rolled around.

[snarkopolis]

Where is ol' Westchamps? Or did our coarse and vulgar language scare him off? Or maybe the lawsuit filed today is a little too much for him?

[ThisOlGirl]

Where is ol' Westchamps? Or did our coarse and vulgar language scare him off? Or maybe the lawsuit filed today is a little too much for him?

He mentioned somewhere that he has a job, so I'm assuming that's where he is. Won't he be surprised to read about this new development? I'd asked him a question earlier, but I don't really care about his answer anymore since I'm mostly watching the other thread (and I Foe'd him in case he shows up to crap all over that thread).

[3 ring circus]

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/ ... sex-slave/

[twin2]

That email from Beall solidified the feelings I've had regarding her that I haven't really wanted to express. I thought I should have more sympathy for her, even though I didn't.

I now know my gut was right, again, and I should have listened to it all along.

Beall has a plan for her life and everyone else be damned. She doesn't care what her husband does as long as she gets to live the life she thinks is her due.

Fuck you, Beall. You're your husbands equal in all ways. I just feel for your children. Their genitic makeup as well as their life long brain washing puts them at a major disadvantage in life.

Pretty much this. I suspect Beall knew the whole time what was going on. It wouldn't surprise me if her and Dougie eventually came to have a marriage in name only to keep the VF brand in going. Beall's attemps to keep the victem quite most likely had to do with her wanting to protect VF and all the sweet sweet cash and other perks it brought in.

I do feel for the kids, mostly his daughters and younger sons. They are screwed. The girls are no not marriageable, and the sons will have no skills and now no business to inherit. I don't feel too much for JT, he was already down the path to tooldom and most likely was knowledgeable complicate in all this.

[geeklove]

ergo, words that used to be not acceptable in polite society....now are?

Okey-dokey.

No, see the point is that offensive language is subjective(see the first sentence). So, while something may offend you it doesn't always offend someone else.

Sorry for the delay. I also have a job.

[Curious]

Pretty much this. I suspect Beall knew the whole time what was going on. It wouldn't surprise me if her and Dougie eventually came to have a marriage in name only to keep the VF brand in going. Beall's attemps to keep the victem quite most likely had to do with her wanting to protect VF and all the sweet sweet cash and other perks it brought in.

I do feel for the kids, mostly his daughters and younger sons. They are screwed. The girls are no not marriageable, and the sons will have no skills and now no business to inherit. I don't feel too much for JT, he was already down the path to tooldom and most likely was knowledgeable complicate in all this.

The way the complaint reads, it's like Beall just suddenly decided to stop having Hero stop helping take care of the kids/whatever else she did around the house/farm. Considering that she had been doing nannying/helping around the house for some years, it seems a bit odd that Beall would just up and decide that she no longer needed Hero's help.

Without knowing anymore specifics that we know, it looks to me like her way of trying to stop the contact in the only way she was able, being a good submissive wife :roll: Of course, Doug just found other ways to have Hero around by having her "work" for him rather than helping Beall.

So whether Beall knew for the entire time or not, I couldn't even guess, but I'd be willing to wager she knew or at least suspected something around the time she stopped having Hero help with the nannying etc.

[Arete]

It may be a minor point now in light of what came out today, but it is still galling that Beall and her rapist husband had unlimited access to what was slave labor. They can put whatever bs gloss about volunteering for the ministry they want, they had unpaid help. And not just Hero either.

I could raise a quiver too if I had unlimited free help who would fetch this, clean up that, and cook the other.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think Beall must have at least suspected something was going on. Wouldn't she have heard something? It seems like Doug was being a bit risky with his sexual assault, with him following her into the kitchen and assaulting her when there was people in the house. Surely on those nights where he was sneaking into her room to molest her, Beall heard something. Did she overhear Hero crying and telling him to stop, but decide it was probably nothing and go back to sleep? Did she wonder where Doug went, when he was doing this? Did she ever notice the way he treated her was not normal, and try and convince herself that he just liked her as a friend?

[hoipolloi]

It may be a minor point now in light of what came out today, but it is still galling that Beall and her rapist husband had unlimited access to what was slave labor. They can put whatever bs gloss about volunteering for the ministry they want, they had unpaid help. And not just Hero either.

I could raise a quiver too if I had unlimited free help who would fetch this, clean up that, and cook the other.

Agree. It's long been obvious that the royalty in this movement all use such unpaid help, particularly for childcare. They may try to portray it as training young women in household management (i.e., Titus 2 bullshit) but the bottom line is that it's free labor. Doesn't seem to be an option for the majority of peons who bought into this shite.

[westchamps]

Nice try but pitiful westchamps. I'm not interested in whether you as an individual family get your kids tested. Overall, fundamentalist homeschoolers err on the side of not being tested.

How do you even know that? In some states it's not even legal to homeschool without being tested or assessed. Including my state.

It does not surprise me one bit that you are not interested in whether my siblings and I were tested and whether we test our own kids, because it doesn't nicely fit the narrative you're trying to craft that homeschoolers are just a bunch of underachieving, dumb country bumpkins who would only be "exposed" for the idiots they are if they would get tested more regularly. The facts are that when homeschoolers do get tested, they routinely outperform same-age average public school peers. That's been the case in our family, and multiple studies have shown as much across the broad spectrum of homeschoolers as well.

I know there hasn't been a fundamentalist astronaut or physicist of any note because they would not have been able to hide their proselytizing if there was.

:lol: Well, that is some pretty definitive stuff right there. You would have looked less silly if you had just ignored my question than to answer it in that way. :roll:

You claim all homeschoolers as your own when it suites you, but you know I am not talking about ALL homeschoolers.

Ummm....to this point, you've been painting with a very broad brush.

I am talking about a very specific subset, the ones who teach no evolution, no modern literature, no calculus, no hard science, etc.

So, in order to be accomplished or "smart", one must have a curriculum that includes all of the above? Says....who? I was taught Creation, read classics, not modern literature, did not take calculus and did not take physics. By your formula, I guess I should have been a miserable failure in life, huh? Well, I guess what you don't know can't hurt you. I didn't even realize that I couldn't possibly have a successful life unless my schooling included those subjects. Just call me lucky.

I'm quite sure there are happy marriages that started with courtship and first kisses at the altar. Yes, you are defying the odds. Statistics don't lie.

Statistics may not lie, but you know full well they don't always tell a complete story. Did it ever occur to you that there might be different subsets within "Evangelicalism"? I can't tell you why some evangelicals have a high divorce rate. I can tell you that my experience is that people similar to my own upbringing do not have a high divorce rate, they have an extremely low divorce rate. In my own extended family I have multiple cousins who were raised in evangelical churches, but were not homeschooled and had quite a different upbringing than myself. Most of them are on their 2nd marriages. Meanwhile, myself and my 3 siblings have 53 years of marriage between us and are all still very much in love with our first and only spouses. We're evangelical. My cousins are evangelical, yet something is clearly different. My siblings and I didn't just get "lucky in love".

I am also quite sure that not every kid who is spanked is going to be violent, do drugs, or drop out of school. But once again, the statistics tell us that there is a correlation in both cases. Evangelicals are more likely to get divorced than atheists. Children who are spanked are more likely to have behavior problems than children who are not spanked.

I don't know which statistics you're referring to, but if the Bible wasn't sufficient to tell me that is a bunch of nonsense, my upbringing and our experience with raising our own children tells me it is a bunch of nonsense. I couldn't begin to tell you how many times someone has come up to my wife or I, in church or even just out in public at a restaurant or some such place, to tell us how amazed they are at how well behaved our children are. All of my siblings and my wife's siblings have many similar stories to recount. We all spank our kids when necessary. So, either we're the most awesome, well behaved family in existence, or your "statistics" aren't worth the paper they're printed on. I'm going with the latter. We are not the exception, we know tooooo many families like ours who spank their children and consequently have extremely well behaved children. Not a coincidence.

Now, if you want to talk about people who literally beat and abuse their children in anger/rage, that may be a different story. But that's not what I'm talking about.

Funny thing about different denominations of Christianity. Not all of us take the Bible word for word, and without context. So when we read something like "He that spareth the rod hateth his son", we take note that this sentence came from the very best child disciplining techniques that the Bronze Age had to offer. We are no longer in the Bronze Age, and we understand just a tad more than a Bronze Aged poet did about childhood development. So while this was the best that author knew, now we know better. When you know better, you are obligated to do better. Are you feeling informed now?

No.

Your sister went to college and yet you buy from a movement and thought well of a man who teach that women should NOT go to college? Niiiiice.

If you're going to say that homeschooled fundamentalist Christians are all basically a bunch of dumb country bumpkins and you expect me to sit on my hands and not provide information very much to the contrary, you're mistaken. I never said I agreed with the fact that she went to college, but she did go, and she was an extremely high educational achiever, ergo, not a dumb country bumpkin.

[Hane]

:chores-mop: :chores-vacuum: :feed-trolls:

[westchamps]

Christian Fundamentalism is only about 100 years old. And no matter how he tries to spin it Christian Fundamentalism is anti-intellectual. Period. Point blank. End of story. That was, and in many ways still is, the entire point of the movement.

Again, I can't for the life of me figure out what he is doing here. (I say again because I am having flashbacks to Ken's visit.)

This would be funny if it wasn't so gob-smackingly ignorant. I am sure that parents who teach their children the Trivium are anti-intellectual. Same for those whose children read a heavy diet of classic literature and poetry. And are well ahead of their age/grade level in reading and multiple other subjects. And are accomplished musicians. Yep, all glaring signs of anti-intellectualism. :roll:

[westchamps]

Hate = fundie speak for "you don't agree with me"!

So if this westchamps knew Doug before he knew Hero, it must have been before the year 2000 = 15 years ago. A person can change a lot in 15 years. I personally wouldn't step up and defend a person I had known 15 years ago and haven't had any contact with for more than five years.

Yep. You seem to have grasped something that few others in this discussion have been willing to consider.

And I didn't defend the Doug of now, I defended the guy I knew before he changed. I censured and condemned the Doug of now.

[westchamps]

Wow: I'm important enough that westchamps keeps quoting me, and considers me charming.

For the record, pal, I consider the Bible to be a compilation of timeless truths, interesting anecdotes, and total bullshit. No one has ever been able to prove to me that it's the infallible word of God. It's just a set of documents chosen by a committee and having a clear political agenda.

I'm happy to let you think so if that's your bent. It's a free country, you can believe what you want.

[westchamps]

Ah, keeping it classy, westchamps. Unfortunately, I like many people who grew up at the SOTDRT tend to have difficulty picking up on social cues, especially online. Of course, that wouldn't apply to you. /s (just in case you weren't sure).

No idea what SOTDRT is.....

[westchamps]

We get it westchamps, you know the most bible verses of anyone here. You are such a manly- patriarch-bible reader- important guy. You are going to have a house beside Jesus in heaven for coming here and setting all vagina people straight. Now you can retreat to your world where nobody curses or swears or whatever. Goodbye, have a beautiful time.

So, I'm still waiting for someone to answer if this is a women-only forum?

[J'ean Skirt]

So, I'm still waiting for someone to answer if this is a women-only forum?

Why is that important? And why should we answer it?

[westchamps]

Of course I never claimed that you said anything from either Bingo card. You just inferred that.

Yeah, you've said a lot of things in this thread that heavily implied something that you later denied had anything whatsoever to do with that. It might be instructive for you to go back and re-read some of your postings to me in this thread to find out just why I might have inferred some things from what you said.

[twin2]

Why is that important? And why should we answer it?

Because clearly this thread is all about westchamps.....

I see in the time he knew Dougie, his toolness clearly rubbed off on him....

[formergothardite]

So, I'm still waiting for someone to answer if this is a women-only forum?

No there are men here. I hope you read my(and several other posters) posts and realize a lot of us come from fundamental Christian backgrounds and have experienced the time of realizing there are Christians who don't believe like we do and that by stepping out of the box these beliefs have shoved us in we have grown into better people.