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Doug Phillips is a Tool & Vision Forum is Dead - Part 7


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Can we ban WestChamps for hijacking this thread just as crucial information has come out? I'm pissed that I missed it (plus, hello! Hero got MARRIED! Which is a very sweet F U to Beall & Co and their threats to her "marriage prospects").

Reading the complaint is horrifying. :( I need a shower now...

ETA because I had included a picture from WND and I decided I didn't want it to be here. In this thread. :(

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I don't understand the legal system well enough, so have to ask:

1) It's a civil rather than criminal filing. Does this mean it is taken more lightly by the justice system?

Criminal filings need to come from the state, not an individual. While DPiaT may have violated criminal statutes, it would require the local police to investigate and the local attorneys to prosecute. This is a suit filed directly by Hero.

The standard of evidence is somewhat different for a civil vs. a criminal trial, and the penalties are different. For instance, civil trials don't involve jail time.

2) Is it certain it will go to trial? A previous poster said something about IF it goes to trial, but the documents refer to Hero asking for compensation at trial, so doesn't that mean they will certainly go to trial?

It may not go to trial if they settle the suit before a trial. There's lots of procedural wrangling involved in lawsuits. At this point, Hero has asked for a trial for this. But, there are lots of things that can happen during the course of the lawsuit that may affect it going to trial.

3) Since Hero's filing document was made public, does that mean all responses to it will also be made public? I can hardly wait to read DPIAT's first response. I'm sure he is furious and will come out swingin'.

Generally legal filings are available to the public, except in cases where one side or another has requested for documents to be filed under seal. All filings (both criminal and civil) in the federal court system are available online (except those filed under seal). Some state courts have online filings, but for many of them someone actually has to go to the courthouse and get docs in person. I've done that for some people interested in local cases. I've not looked at where this lawsuit was filed, and if there is online access. I'm guessing there won't be.

As for making it public, this was clearly given to the press, probably by the lawyer. I wouldn't expect him to share DPiaT's response with the press, as that's kind of bad form. However, this will not stop DPiaT from making his response public if he so chooses. It also does not stop someone from going to the courthouse and getting copies of the documents to share online.

Note: I'm not a lawyer. This is just my experience following various lawsuits related to my job.

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I'll bet Doug will very, very quietly move to settle this out of court. Especially since he wants to try to make a comeback.

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I don't understand the legal system well enough, so have to ask:

1) It's a civil rather than criminal filing. Does this mean it is taken more lightly by the justice system?

2) Is it certain it will go to trial? A previous poster said something about IF it goes to trial, but the documents refer to Hero asking for compensation at trial, so doesn't that mean they will certainly go to trial?

3) Since Hero's filing document was made public, does that mean all responses to it will also be made public? I can hardly wait to read DPIAT's first response. I'm sure he is furious and will come out swingin'.

IANAL, nor do I play one on the internet ;)

There is a lower standard for proof in civil vs criminal trials (preponderance of the evidence vs beyond a reasonable doubt) and a civil trial does not preclude a criminal trial, to my knowledge. In fact, unless I'm mistaken, evidence presented in a civil trial can be used in a criminal trial (unless things are different in TX, which they may well be since it's TX (sorry to any members we have that live and love TX)).

Nothing ever *has* to go to trial. Doug who is most definitely not only a tool, but using his tool irresponsibly, could decide to settle (for example). I think it's pretty standard boilerplate to ask for a trial in the complaint.

Most court documents are public unless there is a request to seal them. Unless the kids are involved in some way, I doubt an order to seal would be granted for the majority of normal pleadings in a case like this.

We have real lawyers here that can probably give more specific answers though.

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This is a strong woman. After reading that tough stuff, I would like to commend her as Eshet Chayil, a woman of valor, a la Proverbs 31. I wish her and her husband the best as they head into this lawsuit.

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Also, is using the "Foe" option for an annoying forum participant the same as the "Ignore" option in other forums? This would block their posts from your view. The "West-champs" person has the annoyance factor and relevance of a fly & I'm searching for a digital fly swatter.

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I just read the complaint, for Hero's sake. I shouldn't have. I literally feel like I am going to puke, I am shaking and I think I'm going to need an Ativan to avoid an anxiety attack. :cry:

Doug Phillips, you worthless, molesting, harassing, no good horrible piece of shit. I hope Hero takes every dime you've got AND you end up in a fetching orange prison jumpsuit.

Beall doesn't care about anything but $$$$$$$. She doesn't want to lose the big house, the trips, the clothes and the lifestyle. She made her bed, now she can jolly well lie in it.

ETA: the most horrifying point of all in the complaint to me is how many years he groomed her, and oh so carefully waited until she was of age before he touched her. Cold, calculating, narcissistic son of a bitch. Honestly? It made me think of that old movie "Jagged Edge" with Jeff Bridges and Glenn Close where the guy planned a crime 3 years in advance to make it look like someone else offed his wife. The prosecutor kept calling him an "iceman." Doug Phillips is a sexual predator iceman. He was attracted to her when she was FIFTEEN and waited all those years then made his move. :::::shudder:::::

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Also, is using the "Foe" option for an annoying forum participant the same as the "Ignore" option in other forums? This would block their posts from your view. The "West-champs" person has the annoyance factor and relevance of a fly & I'm searching for a digital fly swatter.

That's correct. You will see their posts, if they are quoted, I believe, but you won't get the wall o' text anymore.

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Also, is using the "Foe" option for an annoying forum participant the same as the "Ignore" option in other forums? This would block their posts from your view. The "West-champs" person has the annoyance factor and relevance of a fly & I'm searching for a digital fly swatter.

It is indeed. Please feel free to swat. :)

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From the email the Beall sent to Hero (per the legal complaint):

No, no, no... that is Doug's voice right there. If he didn't actually write it, my bet is he told her what to say, and used that same line of BS to keep both Beall and Hero quiet before.

THAT'S what I've been trying to say... without the ministry references, that is almost WORD FOR WORD what my ex-husband told me, before and after we were separated (granted I never contacted the girlfriends, but I'm not sure I would have been able to say no had he asked). He had me convinced the world would fall apart for us and especially our children if I told anyone the truth about our marriage, if I filed for divorce, if the proceedings were open, and on and on and on.

And the veiled threats... ugh. These kinds of men are all the same, they pull you in, get close, and use your deepest fears to exploit you.

My guess is DP is still feeding Beall lines like "If you leave me now, it will look so bad I'll have no chance, we'll have no income, and the whole family will be out on the street. Is it really worth it to you? Is that what you want?" "Just give me a few more months, the lawyer said it will be finished by the end of the summer, then you can go do what you want." "The kids have been through enough right now. Why do you want to make it worse for them? What in your life is so bad right now, you have the kids, the house, I'M the one having to fight to keep us going. All you have to do is be quiet for awhile."

Beall is one of his victims too.

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I pinned a more "Herocentric" topic for the people that are tired of our new visitor since there is a lot of news on that front today: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21549

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Criminal filings need to come from the state, not an individual. While DPiaT may have violated criminal statutes, it would require the local police to investigate and the local attorneys to prosecute. This is a suit filed directly by Hero.

The standard of evidence is somewhat different for a civil vs. a criminal trial, and the penalties are different. For instance, civil trials don't involve jail time.

It may not go to trial if they settle the suit before a trial. There's lots of procedural wrangling involved in lawsuits. At this point, Hero has asked for a trial for this. But, there are lots of things that can happen during the course of the lawsuit that may affect it going to trial.

Generally legal filings are available to the public, except in cases where one side or another has requested for documents to be filed under seal. All filings (both criminal and civil) in the federal court system are available online (except those filed under seal). Some state courts have online filings, but for many of them someone actually has to go to the courthouse and get docs in person. I've done that for some people interested in local cases. I've not looked at where this lawsuit was filed, and if there is online access. I'm guessing there won't be.

As for making it public, this was clearly given to the press, probably by the lawyer. I wouldn't expect him to share DPiaT's response with the press, as that's kind of bad form. However, this will not stop DPiaT from making his response public if he so chooses. It also does not stop someone from going to the courthouse and getting copies of the documents to share online.

Note: I'm not a lawyer. This is just my experience following various lawsuits related to my job.

Thank you, Bisky!

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That's correct. You will see their posts, if they are quoted, I believe, but you won't get the wall o' text anymore.

Thanks! it will save my scrolling finger from RSI.

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Curious has pinned a Hero/Nolan/Lawsuit thread so can I suggest we take the lawsuit discussion over there and leave this thread for the boring Westchamps cussing discussion? At least for now. :)

I ask just so that I don't get really dizzy flipping between the two threads! Thanks!

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Curious has pinned a Hero/Nolan/Lawsuit thread so can I suggest we take the lawsuit discussion over there and leave this thread for the boring Westchamps cussing discussion? At least for now. :)

I ask just so that I don't get really dizzy flipping between the two threads! Thanks!

It's the perfect solution! The flipping was giving me vertigo.

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Curious has pinned a Hero/Nolan/Lawsuit thread so can I suggest we take the lawsuit discussion over there and leave this thread for the boring Westchamps cussing discussion? At least for now. :)

I ask just so that I don't get really dizzy flipping between the two threads! Thanks!

Sorry, I would have been quicker, but it took me a while to catch up on this thread. I about tapped out around page 19, so I'm glad I stuck it out. I would have missed the lawsuit news.

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I don't understand the legal system well enough, so have to ask:

1) It's a civil rather than criminal filing. Does this mean it is taken more lightly by the justice system?

To my knowledge, civil complaints have a lower standard of proof ("preponderance of evidence" as opposed to "beyond a reasonable doubt") and involve monetary compensation rather than asking for jail time. There may also have been an issue with the statute of limitations/lack of physical evidence in regards to the physical assaults DPIAT committed towards Hero.

2) Is it certain it will go to trial? A previous poster said something about IF it goes to trial, but the documents refer to Hero asking for compensation at trial, so doesn't that mean they will certainly go to trial?

I can't imagine that it wouldn't go to trial, but my legal knowledge comes from Wikipedia :lol: so take that with a grain of salt...I think that DPIAT/VF could offer Hero an out-of-court settlement in order to forestall a jury trial, but I imagine DPIAT is enough of a megalomaniac that he assumes he'll be vindicated at trial and is unlikely in the extreme to offer Hero an out-of-court settlement.

3) Since Hero's filing document was made public, does that mean all responses to it will also be made public? I can hardly wait to read DPIAT's first response. I'm sure he is furious and will come out swingin'.

Oh good Lord I certainly hope so! How awesome would it be to have him shoot himself in the foot with ill-considered TMI in an effort to lash out at Hero?

...and I see others have given excellent answers. Dang, y'all are fast!

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Oh good Lord I certainly hope so! How awesome would it be to have him shoot himself in the foot with ill-considered TMI in an effort to lash out at Hero?

He will be hell bent on lashing out. And hell bent to prove that he's right.

I think it a real possiblity that he will refuse to settle and go for trial, convinced that he will be vindicated, even if his attorneys beg him to settle and get it over with.

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Can we ban WestChamps for hijacking this thread just as crucial information has come out? I'm pissed that I missed it (plus, hello! Hero got MARRIED! Which is a very sweet F U to Beall & Co and their threats to her "marriage prospects").

Reading the complaint is horrifying. :( I need a shower now...

ETA because I had included a picture from WND and I decided I didn't want it to be here. In this thread. :(

Re: bolded. Interesting, isn't it, that our manly man seems to have disappeared from view with the breaking news on Hero's filing. Where is he to defend the Patriarchy & the Patriarses and tell us this is all Hero's fault?

westchamps = chickenshit.

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Re: bolded. Interesting, isn't it, that our manly man seems to have disappeared from view with the breaking news on Hero's filing. Where is he to defend the Patriarchy & the Patriarses and tell us this is all Hero's fault?

westchamps = chickenshit.

I foed him as he was becoming quite tiresome. I think he came here to troll as an diversionary tactic. It didn't work..FJer's are too observant for that.

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We're not all Christians, fuckwit. Some of us don't give a fuck what the bible says. Some of us think it's a load of bullshit.

And some of those of us who are Christians see the reasoning behind parts of what the Bible says as cultural, specific to a particular time and place.

I see scripture as a record of the relationship the writers, and the people whom they were representing, had with God. That relationship changed over time, from one cultural context to another. Paul's understanding of and relation to God is somewhat different from Ezekiel's. Guess what, Westie? That opens up space for your understanding of and relationship to God to be somewhat different from Paul's (or, for that matter, mine).*

The constants over time in scripture are God's presence, people's intermittent difficulty experiencing and responding to that presence, God perpetually trying new ways of getting people's attention, and a repeated call to be a loving and just person. But the epistles in particular-- some of that is personal correspondence responding to particular crises. If you want to read Paul's letter to Titus as Paul's letter to you, that is your business. Please do not read it as Paul's letter to me.

*I am of course presuming that you are not among the people who feel that Paul's acceptance of slavery means that we should still have slavery now. If I am incorrect and you are a slavery apologist, then we have nothing useful to say to each other.

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I foed him as he was becoming quite tiresome. I think he came here to troll as an diversionary tactic. It didn't work..FJer's are too observant for that.

I think he either went to sleep - he seemed to be posting garbage most of the night - or might actually have a job to go to!

He hardly makes "Biblical Christians" look good. :cracking-up:

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Re: bolded. Interesting, isn't it, that our manly man seems to have disappeared from view with the breaking news on Hero's filing. Where is he to defend the Patriarchy & the Patriarses and tell us this is all Hero's fault?

westchamps = chickenshit.

I'm sure if he does address it he will claim she is lying.

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Doug and Beall confronted his younger sister when she graduated from college with a degree in vocal music and basically told her she must move to Texas and live with them, learn to be a SAHD/W and give up her dreams. If she didn't do this, she'd be damned for eternity and spend it in hell. This upset his sister greatly.

She has gone on forward to a blossoming opera career in Europe, free from their grasp.

Yes such a godly man threatening his own sister. YMMV.

Somehow, I wonder if there might possibly have been a little more nuance to the discussion than the way you have presented it here. :roll:

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[snip - westchamps' bullshit]

This came from a very knowledgeable and trusted person. Sorry if it throws paint on the sainted Phillips family.

Thanks for contributing this information. The major disconnect between the relatively normal lives Doug's sisters are living versus what he & Beall have preached always puzzled me. Add in Doug's daddy-worship and it was a very bizarre picture of the Phillips family.

Realize that you may not be able to share much more if anything, but what did the REST of the Phillips family think about Doug & Beall's demands made to that sister?

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