Doug Phillips is a Tool & Vision Forum is Dead - Part 7

[formergothardite]

I wouldn't find it surprising at all if more women come out of the woodwork. Much like Gothard, I highly doubt Doug stopped at one woman. These sorts of men rarely do.

And what the fuck is Christian reconciliation? Her forgiving him and letting it all get covered up so that nobody finds out? Screw that.

[Alcyone]

I have a lot of admiration for Hero bringing this situation to light. She was threatened repeatedly and God only knows exactly how bad the threats were. Bad enough that DP warned her that he would place all the blame on her. The fact that he is casting her as the aggressor takes away the last shred of doubt (okay, there wasn't even a shred) that he is repentant for what he did. If he followed his Bible, we would not be seeing him with feathered cap and frilly tunic but his garments would be rent and he would be heaping ashes on his own head. How is it possible that he does not see that he should be on his knees begging forgiveness for his sins, his crimes, his lies, and on and on? This is my shock of the day: that he could be THAT blind.

[Alcyone]

I wouldn't find it surprising at all if more women come out of the woodwork. Much like Gothard, I highly doubt Doug stopped at one woman. These sorts of men rarely do.

And what the fuck is Christian reconciliation? Her forgiving him and letting it all get covered up so that nobody finds out? Screw that.

That's right. "They" say Hero is doing it for the money but her courage in bringing the sordid details out in the open is more likely fueled by a desire to protect other young women from similar victimization.

[Dark Matters]

SSB has a post up on it too.

spiritualsoundingboard.com/2014/04/15/lourdes-torres-alleged-victim-in-the-doug-phillips-vision-forum-sex-abuse-scandals-files-lawsuit/

[Curious]

James 3:10

From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so.

I wondered about the cursing question because the last few visitors we've had have been so caught up on this, so I googled and found a handy list (pretty much the one westchamps provided here, btw.

However, I looked at a couple different sites because that's how I roll and I found THIS interesting. There is more to the James quote and read in CONTEXT, it has a different meaning, IMO.

James 3:9-10

With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God. From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so.

This is why I really dislike bible quoting. In no other kind of quoting would you pick one sentence out of a paragraph and call it the entirety of the quote in which you base your whole stance on. In all other types of writing you read the sentences before and after to get the full meaning, but for some reason with the bible, you are "allowed" to just randomly pick a sentence out anywhere you like and it suddenly is a stand alone sentence. That makes NO sense.

If that was the case.

It would be written.

Like this.

But is isn't.

[tropaka]

The David C. Gibbs repping Hero is indeed the same guy investigating Gothard. At least it looks like he can indeed be on the victim's side of things and not for shuffling things away (i.e. Gothard).

[nokidsmom]

I have a lot of admiration for Hero bringing this situation to light. She was threatened repeatedly and God only knows exactly how bad the threats were. Bad enough that DP warned her that he would place all the blame on her. The fact that he is casting her as the aggressor takes away the last shred of doubt (okay, there wasn't even a shred) that he is repentant for what he did. If he followed his Bible, we would not be seeing him with feathered cap and frilly tunic but his garments would be rent and he would be heaping ashes on his own head. How is it possible that he does not see that he should be on his knees begging forgiveness for his sins, his crimes, his lies, and on and on? This is my shock of the day: that he could be THAT blind.

He is indeed that blind and unrepentant.

Given what we have heard on Dougie's behavior, namely raging at the men who confronted him and threatening 3 of them with lawsuits, it doesn't surprise me in the least that he would try to place the blame on her also.

[Curious]

As a brilliant friend of mine once pointed out, "You just don't barge into a duck-hating forum and start waving your duck around."

Sage advice.

This makes me laugh every time I read it. I've seen it on any number of forums and it's been posted here before, as well, but I still literally laugh out loud every time. It's just so true and people still need to be told.

[Curious]

Who? I have no idea who Mark Driscoll is.

:evil-eye:

He knew all those guys that preach prosperity gospel, but he's never heard of Driscoll? Color me an unbeliever.

[WonderingInWA]

Good for Hero! I especially love how many times the word "ejaculating" is used over and over again in the legal doc. LOL. In case you miss it the first time, it's mentioned repeatedly!

And that threatening email from Beall? That might just be what seals the deal. Not a very smart move on her part.

[GenerationCedarchip]

Just read the complaint and, wow, my heart just breaks for Hero and for the Phillips children. We had some abuses of leadership in my old fundie church, but nothing near this level. I just hope and pray that they can find healing and wholeness after going through all of this.

And since we know they read here - Congratulations on your marriage, Manteufels!

[uber frau]

:evil-eye:

He knew all those guys that preach prosperity gospel, but he's never heard of Driscoll? Color me an unbeliever.

To be fair, Driscoll has only been such a central figure in the past 5-10 years. The others have been around a lot longer.

[Curious]

lol, it's not rocket science. When the Bible says "those who spare the rod of discipline hate their children", there's not a whole lot of room for nuance.

That's debatable: http://parentingfreedom.com/discipline/ (it's a Christian site)

[Sola]

Question is, why only a civil suit? Going on that file Dougie sexually assaulted Hero several times. Why not criminal charges?

[ThisOlGirl]

Good for Hero! I especially love how many times the word "ejaculating" is used over and over again in the legal doc. LOL. In case you miss it the first time, it's mentioned repeatedly!

And that threatening email from Beall? That might just be what seals the deal. Not a very smart move on her part.

Did you catch the part of the email where she says she was advised by the VF board to contact Hero? Methinks the board members will have thing or two to say about that!

I cannot believe (yes I can) that Dougie sat there in front of his wife and tried to Convince Hero's parents that he should continue to have contact with their daughter. The fact that Beall broke down crying tells me she knew that he had no intention of stopping what he was doing.

[Want More Babies]

The lawsuit claims Vision Forum Ministries’ board was made aware of Phillips’ behavior in January or February of 2013, but continued to keep Phillips in the highest position of leadership until “it was apparent that Phillips’ behavior toward Ms. Torres could no longer remain confidential.†Also, it states that the board strategized “how it could bring Phillips to a place where he could make a ‘comeback’ and regain public leadership of the ministry.â€

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2014/04/pastor-accus ... hSwRWJg.99

No wonder Dougie was pissed. He thought his board has his back. It now makes his board members look like total assholes. Nolan, hats off to you and your new bride for bringing this to light. I have total respect for you two. I am sure it was not easy.

[Palimpsest]

I think you have to sign up to get the article? I had to register. It is long and very detailed. I don't think Westchamps should read it because he might go into shock

Quick points of interest :

- The young now married lady has made personal statements so I think it is OK to use her name now. I'll wait on a Helpmeet for approval, but see that other people are now using it!

- She has serious guts!

- Yes, she is being represented by David Gibbs. This could be a good thing. He is tough but usually works to defend churches I think.

- She has been having counseling. Good.

- It is going to get really ugly. Doug is going to go after her with every fiber of his being.

- There are claims that the board is dirtier than I previously suspected.

- Doug is the scum of the earth.

[Palimpsest]

I'm close enough (geographically) that I may just have to take a little trip down IH35 if this ever goes to trial.

Please do!

[nokidsmom]

Good for Hero! I especially love how many times the word "ejaculating" is used over and over again in the legal doc. LOL. In case you miss it the first time, it's mentioned repeatedly!

And that threatening email from Beall? That might just be what seals the deal. Not a very smart move on her part.

I have always had some mixed feelings regarding Beall, but any sympathy I felt for her over her cheating husband went down a few notches after reading that. Yes, her husband cheated on her but she has embraced his beliefs and championed them alongside him and now took to threatening Hero. But I guess she never thought that that email would see the light of day, much less court.

[WonderingInWA]

A lot of the details will be disputed by the Phillips team, for sure. Nobody wants to go down with the ship (i.e. the board at VM) and also I'm sure DPIAT will come back swinging and saying Hero came onto him and/or she didn't resist, etc. Anyone who has ever been in a situation like those described in the filing would not resist for so many reasons. I truly hope that's not going to be a loophole of some kind for him.

I am particularly disgusted by his behavior in the kitchen. There is nothing more degrading than that kind of behavior. I'm glad she documented it. I am so sorry for her -- all this so explicitly exposed, but good for her. Good brave girl. And good for Nolan for sticking by her, keeping her strong.

[Seren Ann]

Wow, now everything is coming to light at last... I think Doug Phillips is a Tool is going to burn ! *sits back and rubs hands*

Having read the legal doc I don't think it can be said that she had any responsibility in this. She didn't consent. That qualifies as sexual assault. Given the context it is totally understandable that she felt mixed up and even thought she loved him at one point. That still doesn't make her responsible for his acts.

[Maxwell]

Alrighty then.

Tell me again why Beal is still anywhere near this guy?

And any bets Hero isn't the only one?

From the email the Beall sent to Hero (per the legal complaint):

During the last ten weeks, and ultimately for the last nine months, you

have been lighting bombs all across the country. Right now, you may have

a perception of peace, but what you don't know is that these bombs are

about to explode in a manner that will change all of our lives forever. It

will affect your life, your marriage prospects . . . your parents . . . and

thousands of other people. It is far worse than you imagine.

The VFM board has encouraged me to let you know about these and to

work with you to give you an opportunity to stop impending destruction.

That's it, right there... her husband may have been spilling his seed all over a young lady but hey, that's better than her having to deal with the consequences of leaving him. How nice.

[formergothardite]

That's debatable: http://parentingfreedom.com/discipline/ (it's a Christian site)

That is a very informative site. I am saving it for the next fundie I know who drags up that the Bible demands parents beat their small child.

[silvia]

Wow. Wow. WOW! I can't say enough about Hero's bravery in coming forward. In my estimation, she truly is a Hero--not the saving-people-from-burning-buildings kind, but the kind who's willing to make personal sacrifices to ensure that the truth is exposed. Well done.

ETA: I think her courage is all the more remarkable considering the culture she was raised in, which frowns on the idea of women speaking their truth (or even speaking at all, e.g. in church).

[Maxwell]

To Hero...

My apologies for wondering how much of this was your fault.

Persevero.