Michelle Duggar's Blog: Teaching Kids About Courtship

[Ralar]

Question from a "19 Kids and Counting" fan on Facebook: How did you teach your kids about courtship and what it means?

 

 

Quote

We have really prayed for our children and for their future spouses over the years because who you marry determines your future and the future of your generations to come. A lot of what we talk about is the idea that God will protect them and their future spouse. We want to prepare them for becoming the man and the woman that God wants them to be. We don’t know who their spouse will be, but God knows. It’s just understood that in His time, He’ll bring that special person. And when that time comes, the goal is to really connect with that person on a spiritual level and get to know them. We hope they really know each other like Jim Bob and I do.

 

If Jim Bob and I had known a few more rules about guarding our hearts we probably would have done it a little differently. The idea of always having a chaperone -- we just never even had a clue. We were into the whole mindset of dating, and talking, and being alone. And that’s a dangerous place to be. However, our focus was very much on Christ and our relationship with him. That spared us a whole lot of grief that could have come.

 

For our children, we’ve always encouraged them to know themselves first. Their focus is getting to know who they are, where they are headed, and what they believe their goals are for their future. They should ask themselves if they are prepared to start a relationship that will lead to courtship and marriage? Because we believe that’s really the only reason that you would even consider getting to know someone that closely. You don’t want to play around with your emotions and your feelings. So we talk about those kinds of things with our kids.

 

We teach them that when you’re tempted – because boy and girl-friends are part of these adolescent years -- you’ve got to pray, guard your heart and try to keep things on a good level with the opposite sex. We want the kids to express to their prayer partners, which are Jim Bob and me in this case, that with this individual there was an attraction. These are not strange feelings that they feel. Everybody goes through this. But you always have to consider your future spouse. You want to share all of everything with them. And so you don’t want to have any regrets when you meet that special one that you’ll be sharing your life with.

 

http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids-and-counting/michelle-duggar-blog-kids-courtship.htm#mkcpgn=fbtlc1

 

Give me a friggin' break! J'chelle and Boob have always said there are no BFs and GFs. Now suddenly there are BFs and GFs during the adolescent years.

 

BTW, my head nearly exploded reading that. She has terrible grammar.

[HereticHick]

The "mindset of talking" is a "terrible place to be?" WTF Michelle?

[Georgiana]

I don't think she means bf's and gf's. I think she is talking about having friends of the opposite gender. Especially having childhood friends of the opposite gender that you grow up to have feelings for.

It concerns me that she makes the distinction of adolescence. It's healthy to have opposite gender friends in adulthood too, but I can see them frowning upon that. How sad if you have to lose your friends just to become an adult.

[Ting1789]

I know they've been consistent with the ATI/Gothcult but I really see them as being flavor of the week fundies. Whatever is the popular buzzword/cool trend in that community becomes part of their schtick and eventually they'll probably go back to contradict it. The other part is that it was easy to say that this courtship thing is rigorous when the kids were young, but now that they have a pack of teenagers and twenty-somethings they can't follow through.

There have probably been too many attractions that have fizzled, courtships that ended in secret catastrophe, and now comes the time they have to Jesus'splain all those things away. It's the same bullshit as the JimboobJewz4Jesus, no pork, Maxwell neckbeards, and prairie frumper put downs.

[Rescinded and Mended]

So the moral of today's post is to meet, marry, and start having sex with someone you barely know only because your parents approve of him/her. Then, after you're already married and realize that you've made a horrible mistake because you know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about your new spouse, or if said spouse turns out to be abusive, too bad, because you're stuck with that person forever, and you will still be expected to spawn eleventy kids.

Michelle, did it ever occur to you that any one of your daughters could be in a far more dangerous situation because none of them are allowed to really get to know the person they are courting before marriage? What if Ben is a smooth operator who tells you and Jim Bob exactly what you want to hear, then turns out to be an abuser after he and Jessa get married? What if he is violent and physically or sexually abusive toward Jessa? How would you or Jessa know that and use good judgment beforehand if you don't let her get to know him?

But hey, why should you let any of this bother you? As long as you've thoroughly succeeded in keeping your daughters ignorant and maintained total control over the status of their physical chastity, then who cares if they marry total strangers or if their future husbands are cruel and abusive?

You can at least satisfy yourself that you did the "Godly" thing by your daughters - even if the potential for abuse is terrifyingly high.

[Dandruff]

What does it mean that she and Jim Bob are their children's prayer partners? They can't even be trusted to pray by themselves?

[16strong]

So the moral of today's post is to meet, marry, and start having sex with someone you barely know only because your parents approve of him/her. Then, after you're already married and realize that you've made a horrible mistake because you know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about your new spouse, or if said spouse turns out to be abusive, too bad, because you're stuck with that person forever, and you will still be expected to spawn eleventy kids.

Michelle, did it ever occur to you that any one of your daughters could be in a far more dangerous situation because none of them are allowed to really get to know the person they are courting before marriage? What if Ben is a smooth operator who tells you and Jim Bob exactly what you want to hear, then turns out to be an abuser after he and Jessa get married? What if he is violent and physically or sexually abusive toward Jessa? How would you or Jessa know that and use good judgment beforehand if you don't let her get to know him?

But hey, why should you let any of this bother you? As long as you've thoroughly succeeded in keeping your daughters ignorant and maintained total control over the status of their physical chastity, then who cares if they marry total strangers or if their future husbands are cruel and abusive?

You can at least satisfy yourself that you did the "Godly" thing by your daughters - even if the potential for abuse is terrifyingly high.

They don't see it that way at all. In their book, if a guy can get past daddy's interrogation, then they can't be an abusive or bad person. The thing fundies fail to realize though is that the people that do best in interrogations are often sociopaths, who can remain calm, collected, and extremely well-spoken in some of the most stressful and heated situations. So so so dangerous, on so many levels.

[Childless]

If Jim Bob and Michelle did such a bang up job raising their offspring to be godly adults, then why the need for chaperones? Shouldn't they be capable of resisting temptation on their own? What's the point of spending all that time teaching them how to be good Christians if you aren't going to let them go out on their own and be good Christians? Sounds to me like they don't have much faith in their parenting abilities. I would have to agree with them on that as they really don't do any parenting.

[singsingsing]

That's what makes no sense. If your values are so true and right and you've worked so hard to instill them in your children, shouldn't you be able to trust them to make the right choices? And why are they suddenly considered trustworthy enough to go it alone and police their husband's/wife's/children's behaviour as soon as they're married? There's literally no transition period.

[lillybeth]

If Jim Bob and Michelle did such a bang up job raising their offspring to be godly adults, then why the need for chaperones? Shouldn't they be capable of resisting temptation on their own? What's the point of spending all that time teaching them how to be good Christians if you aren't going to let them go out on their own and be good Christians? Sounds to me like they don't have much faith in their parenting abilities. I would have to agree with them on that as they really don't do any parenting.

I feel like we keep coming back to this question on multiple threads of FJ. I would love to see an honest response to this question from a fundie (or Michelle, instead of those same FAQ answers she regurgitates over and over).

[16strong]

I feel like we keep coming back to this question on multiple threads of FJ. I would love to see an honest response to this question from a fundie (or Michelle, instead of those same FAQ answers she regurgitates over and over).

I don't think there IS an honest response, other than "We want to make sure that our kids don't jump ship and ruin our reputations." I really think that's what it comes down to, but it will be a cold day in hell before any fundie admits that to themselves, much less the public.

[Cleopatra7]

I don't think she means bf's and gf's. I think she is talking about having friends of the opposite gender. Especially having childhood friends of the opposite gender that you grow up to have feelings for.

It concerns me that she makes the distinction of adolescence. It's healthy to have opposite gender friends in adulthood too, but I can see them frowning upon that. How sad if you have to lose your friends just to become an adult.

I wasn't aware the Duggar kids were allowed to have any friends, other than their siblings, and the show implies that brothers and sisters can't be friends after thirteen or fourteen. The Duggars may associate with "like-minded families" like the Bateses, but that can't happen more than a few times a year. I doubt that the Howlers have friends in Tonitown that they can play sports with or engage in Bible study with or whatever.

[LilyRose]

I don't think she means bf's and gf's. I think she is talking about having friends of the opposite gender. Especially having childhood friends of the opposite gender that you grow up to have feelings for.

It concerns me that she makes the distinction of adolescence. It's healthy to have opposite gender friends in adulthood too, but I can see them frowning upon that. How sad if you have to lose your friends just to become an adult.

I agree with this. I don't think she means boyfriends and girl friends. I think she means friends who happen to by boys, or happen to be girls. Like the Bates's kids, or the Query's etc.

As I understand it the official fundie line in defence of chaperones is that even when two young people want to keep their hearts pure blah blah, when they're alone together the temptation to cross the line can be too strong blah blah, so it's just makes it easier for them to guard their hearts if they have a chaperone.

[Toothfairy]

What the hell does giving pieces of your heart away mean? Just because you "court(date) doesn't mean bad things won't happen to you. Michelle and JB are hypocrites. They say dating leads to divorce and heartbreak yet they dated. Michelle even dated another guy before JB. Dating doesn't lead to sex. Teach your kid how to control themselves.

[Coconut Flan]

They also have witnesses that they never engaged in hanky panky. For some of those groups that's a big deal.

[Rainytown]

The thing fundies fail to realize though is that the people that do best in interrogations are often sociopaths, who can remain calm, collected, and extremely well-spoken in some of the most stressful and heated situations. So so so dangerous, on so many levels.

Here's a thought: Look at who's doing the interrogating! Jim Boob is not what any woman would consider a great bet for a husband. He's thoughtless -- not only saddling his wife with 19 kids because he subscribes to an absolutely unsustainable religious belief, but he has repeatedly shown he doesn't care about the effects on her mind and body of so many pregnancies and deliveries. Jim Boob doesn't lift a finger to help with the children or housekeeping. He wants to be the "headship", but a thinking woman could NEVER entrust him with the most minor decisions -- he doesn't GET IT. (For instance: Second hand shoes. Uh, dude, shoes form to the buyer's foot, for instance. Wait until your kids start manifesting some pretty freaking expensive problems because they weren't wearing properly fitting shoes. "Buying used and saving the difference" will cost you a bundle later.) It's obvious by his behavior he doesn't know his own kids. He competes with them, for God's sake! One can only imagine what living with helmet head and bad breath 24x7 must be like. He's shallow, narcissistic, ignorant, and puts himself first at all times. Is this what he expects for his daughters, too?

Jim Boob paws his wife in public and makes comments about their sex life on television that my husband would never dare make. My guy is not perfect, but he knows I would not tolerate his treating me with anything less than respect and affection inside our home or out of it. I can't believe that J-chelle does not let Jim Boob have it. We've seen by her treatment of a misbehaving child she has the ability to do so; why does she allow it from her husband? The only reason why they are financially solvent is that they have sold their family to a reality TV show. If they had to live on whatever Jim Boob brought home, they'd be starving to death.

I am sick inside to think that Jessa will have to live with her father's decision making skills. Ben doesn't sound like the sharpest pencil in the pack to begin with. I shudder to imagine what Jim Boob would think was "suitable" courting material.

[doubleT]

Its very sad to me that the first guy that the girls *think* they might like to get to know, they pretty much have to marry. It all seems to be taken so seriously. I don't know why they can't go on casual dates, with others around if need be, but at least spend time together that way before approaching dad to get his permission.

[SPHASH]

Didn't Josh have a broken courtship to a Holt girl?

[Jana814]

Didn't Josh have a broken courtship to a Holt girl?

Yes I think so.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

So the moral of today's post is to meet, marry, and start having sex with someone you barely know only because your parents approve of him/her. Then, after you're already married and realize that you've made a horrible mistake because you know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about your new spouse, or if said spouse turns out to be abusive, too bad, because you're stuck with that person forever, and you will still be expected to spawn eleventy kids.

Michelle, did it ever occur to you that any one of your daughters could be in a far more dangerous situation because none of them are allowed to really get to know the person they are courting before marriage? What if Ben is a smooth operator who tells you and Jim Bob exactly what you want to hear, then turns out to be an abuser after he and Jessa get married? What if he is violent and physically or sexually abusive toward Jessa? How would you or Jessa know that and use good judgment beforehand if you don't let her get to know him?

But hey, why should you let any of this bother you? As long as you've thoroughly succeeded in keeping your daughters ignorant and maintained total control over the status of their physical chastity, then who cares if they marry total strangers or if their future husbands are cruel and abusive?

You can at least satisfy yourself that you did the "Godly" thing by your daughters - even if the potential for abuse is terrifyingly high.

Well I'm not sure she actually believes sexual abuse happens in marriage. Remember, the best way to ensure a strong marriage is to never say no to sex.

But I do agree with you. If my parents subscribed to courting, I would have married my first boyfriend. He was physically, mentally, and emotionally abusive. And our last day together, he tried to rape me in the room he shared with his 8 year old brother. He broke up with me before I could break up with him because I "wasn't easy enough." But none of that would have been known if I wasn't allowed to be alone with him. In front of everyone else, he was sweet and kind, he was very devout, and he was even my cousin's best friend.

I think the problem is most people equate abusers with low life, godless men. And they think having a job/owning a business and being godly means you can't be an abuser. Even on TV, in books, and in movies, abusers are almost always depicted as jobless/having menial jobs, godless, typically drunks or druggies, etc.

Also, remember that this is a culture that believes a woman is at fault for men's actions and emotions. If a man is lustful, it's the woman's fault. If the man is beating her, it's because she was wrong. If the man cheats on her, it's because she didn't give him what he needed to stay faithful.

And, if they really did blanket train their kids, it's not like they are against abuse.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I wasn't aware the Duggar kids were allowed to have any friends, other than their siblings, and the show implies that brothers and sisters can't be friends after thirteen or fourteen. The Duggars may associate with "like-minded families" like the Bateses, but that can't happen more than a few times a year. I doubt that the Howlers have friends in Tonitown that they can play sports with or engage in Bible study with or whatever.

Actually, in my search for men who could be Jill's Mystery Guy, I found quite a few families who seem to regularly send their kids or accept Duggar kids into their homes (with one or two full family visits a year). And many families will send a bunch of an age group of their kids with a bunch of the age group of another family's kids to another family. I know a couple who blogged about going to see the Duggars that way. And, there are some in their circle that live in Arkansas, and see them on a regular basis.

[Coconut Flan]

Didn't Josh have a broken courtship to a Holt girl?

It's one of those stories that no one can pin down but has a life of it's own. It may have been begun by Razing Ruth or someone else wanting internet attention. If he had one he would have been very, very young. Too young in most people's views to have been remotely ready for a courtship.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

It's one of those stories that no one can pin down but has a life of it's own. It may have been begun by Razing Ruth or someone else wanting internet attention. If he had one he would have been very, very young. Too young in most people's views to have been remotely ready for a courtship.

Yea it's synonymous with the "sin in the camp" story that blew up into "Josh was fondling his sisters" in some variations. I think, if anything, it may have been a situation like "I think our kids would be good together when they are older." Kinda like how a lot of parents joke around about one day being in-laws with their best friends cause their children are the same age.

[FJismyheadship]

I found where the holt betrothal thing origiated

greenplumbob.blogspot.com/2008/06/tales-from-referral-log.html?m=1

that's not where it originated. There's a link there that I can't access on my phone that shows where it may have originated.

[AmericanAmigo]

What really does not make sense to me is that they supposedly have so many children to spread their faith, the army for God etc but their adult children can not be let out without chaperones. Some army...