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Live Blogging of "Marrying Well"


meda

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Geoff; talking about the daughters and how shocked they were by american youth culture when they came back from NZ.

7 duties of marriage from geoff:

1. think about children, names for chldren

2. duty to responsibly take dominion over the world (esp. Boys)

3. Use the marriage relationship to resist every enemy ( marriage protects you against heathens)

4. always seek first the intrerests of the Kingdom of Jesus Christ (Mathew 6, 33

5. Inculturate all the world with the claims of Christ ( I have no idea what this means)

6. Model the picture of Christ and the Church

7. Christianize all nations through obedience to scripture, taking dominion of all things

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David answers question: what did you do together whilw you were "talking about marriage" (Botkin code for courting.)

We worked together, find duties to do together. Minister together. They did not answer lists of questions, the conversations were about the work they were already doing.

David: I thought that marriage would free me from my family, but that is self deceiving. You are not magically be more disciplined and able after marriage. I also have sin even after marriage. You will not magically serve Christ better after marriage.

Next week: how to screen a suitor for your daughter. Nadia and Audri asked the hard questions, not their fathers. Plugging the "ask hard things article"

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Isn't Nadia's father deceased? I know her brother gave her away at the wedding, so I assume she had to answer to him as her authoritarian?

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So interesting!

BTW, I think "Inculturate all the world with the claims of Christ" means proselytize and pursue a Christ-centered culture.

(Is the word "inculcate?")

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Meda, this is great -- thanks for taking the time to do this, and thanks to your headship and his puckish sense of humor!!

As usual, the Botkin clan lives up to its arch, contradictory self. Marriage is great, but being single is just fine for ministry purposes, too (think A-S and E, in perpetuity); they hold themselves up as the ideal family, but Ben didn't have a good relationship with Dad; kids shouldn't be cloistered from the "real world," but my how the girls were shocked by "American youth culture..." (as if New Zealand doesn't have a youth culture of its own).

Thank Goddess these young couples have their own homes.

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Ok, so...Ben had a bad relationship with his father, and David thought that marriage would "free him" from his family? If they said this much during a lecture about how great they are, how do they *really* feel about Geoff?

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Ok, so...Ben had a bad relationship with his father, and David thought that marriage would "free him" from his family? If they said this much during a lecture about how great they are, how do they *really* feel about Geoff?

I would LOVE to know what-all that really means.

In a normal family, that would be damning, but in this weird family, maybe it meant that one time they were at the tie store and Ben wanted to get the hunter green tie but Geoff thought he should get the dark kelly green tie instead and they bickered about it for a full minute and a half before the Lord convicted Ben to follow his father's wishes.

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Isn't Nadia's father deceased? I know her brother gave her away at the wedding, so I assume she had to answer to him as her authoritarian?

Sorry for the necrobumping, but this is a question that's come up several times in the past (yes, I'm a long time lurker). No, Nadia's dad isn't deceased, I don't think. He's a doctor from New Jersey who had his license revoked (and then reinstated) a few years ago for inappropriate sexual contact with his patients. If you look for New Jersey doctors licenses, and the last name "Noor" you should be able to find the records. As for his being David and Nadia (nee) Noor's father, well, David Noor's middle name is the same as this doctor's first name, which is how it's done in Egypt. Dr. Noor graduated from the University of Cairo.....I don't have all the links to this information on this computer, or I'd link it, but you can easily find it. Incidentally, there are no property records for "Noor" in Centerville, TN....wonder who David, Nawelle, and their little brother are living with?

So, at any rate, I think maybe her dad didn't give her away because the Botkins didn't want Dr. Noor at their wedding.

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WOW. I hope Dr. Noor isn't a fundie... but if he isn't, how did his children become so intimately involved in VF/Botkinworld?

I'm really surprised that Geoff would allow his son to marry a woman whose father is so messed up. I'd assume his behavior would rule Nadia out immediately as a potential marriage partner.

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WOW. I hope Dr. Noor isn't a fundie... but if he isn't, how did his children become so intimately involved in VF/Botkinworld?

I'm really surprised that Geoff would allow his son to marry a woman whose father is so messed up. I'd assume his behavior would rule Nadia out immediately as a potential marriage partner.

I'm glad that the Botkins are accepting of the Noor kids because they can't help having a dad like that, and of course, his behavior doesn't reflect on them at all. It would've been really messed up if David hadn't been allowed to marry Nadia because of that.

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Sorry for the necrobumping, but this is a question that's come up several times in the past (yes, I'm a long time lurker). No, Nadia's dad isn't deceased, I don't think. He's a doctor from New Jersey who had his license revoked (and then reinstated) a few years ago for inappropriate sexual contact with his patients. If you look for New Jersey doctors licenses, and the last name "Noor" you should be able to find the records. As for his being David and Nadia (nee) Noor's father, well, David Noor's middle name is the same as this doctor's first name, which is how it's done in Egypt. Dr. Noor graduated from the University of Cairo.....I don't have all the links to this information on this computer, or I'd link it, but you can easily find it. Incidentally, there are no property records for "Noor" in Centerville, TN....wonder who David, Nawelle, and their little brother are living with?

So, at any rate, I think maybe her dad didn't give her away because the Botkins didn't want Dr. Noor at their wedding.

I totally looked this up, and you're right. Damn. Sucks to be the Noor kids. :(

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WOW. I hope Dr. Noor isn't a fundie... but if he isn't, how did his children become so intimately involved in VF/Botkinworld?

I'm really surprised that Geoff would allow his son to marry a woman whose father is so messed up. I'd assume his behavior would rule Nadia out immediately as a potential marriage partner.

Have we ruled out the possibility that Nadia's parents are divorced? If my husband sexually abused his patients, you bet I'd get out of that marriage ASAP!

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I'm glad that the Botkins are accepting of the Noor kids because they can't help having a dad like that, and of course, his behavior doesn't reflect on them at all. It would've been really messed up if David hadn't been allowed to marry Nadia because of that.

Well, that's how a reasonable person would respond. But Geoff is not a reasonable person; at least, I never thought he was. I would have assumed that any of his kids' prospective spouses would have to come from families certified three generations back as Botkin Acceptable.

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It's possible that the parents are just separated, not divorced. Total speculation on my part, but in my fundie days that was sort of held up as the "last resort" to women who had unreasonable/sinful spouses. They could separate, maintain separate households, etc, but not divorce because divorce is a sin (which of course means that the wife could not date/court or remarry) Of course, that theory totally screws over the women, because they're still legally tied to their former husbands - so debts and such can be a problem, not to mention child support, custody arrangements, etc etc. So maybe the arrangement is something like that.

I never got the vibe that the Bots or any of the other VF fundie families require a perfect pedigree. Lord knows they probably all have too many less-than-"perfect" family members and/or closet skeletons to require that.

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I believe Farid Noor and his wife are at least separated, and (if not divorced) she may be using her maiden name for legal purposes, such as buying the house that she, David, Nawelle, and Daniel are living in.

If you go here: firstwatch.blogspot.com/search/label/Noor%20Family%20Move you'll see their family moved to TN in 2009....no mention of the dad, although the mom's picture is on there. She used to be David's friend on facebook a few months ago, but not any more and all her posts have been deleted from his wall. Incidentally, his dad is still his facebook friend.

But I agree with previous posters: I am glad that the Botkins "allowed" Nadia into the family; not something I expected from them. It also seems, though, that the kids and mom are doing everything they can to separate from their dad and former life - it must be hard for them, even though, of course, his actions in no way reflect on his family.

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For the next session, if you can, PLEASE ask about whether we should spend lots of money on a big wedding or whether smaller is better.

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