Bill Gothard Ousted - IBLP/ATI scandal - Merge

[formergothardite]

Jack Schaap is in a federal prison for less.

Since, clearly minors were transported across state lines, even across national borders, here's hoping the feds get involved. But I'm guessing the statute of limitations has long run out on the stories Recovering Grace has published. However, people like Gothard don't stop. Somebody needs to investigate the NOW.

The problem with finding out the now is that it often takes years for people to finally get him out of their heads and realize what he was really doing to them. The girls he is doing this to now(Alfred even admits that he currently ogles very young, pretty girls and favors them above all the rest. According to Alfred this is totally normal) most likely aren't going to speak up. They would be shamed by their family and many times won't understand that the uncomfortable feelings they have with what Gothard is doing to them shows that he is doing something wrong.

I think it is going to be hard to bring Gothard down.

ETA: Alfred keep saying that he went to Gothard and asked if he has behaved in sexually inappropriate ways with the young ladies who work with him and then Gothard looked him in the eyes and said "I've never seen a woman's private parts." He answered a question that wasn't asked and refused to answer the actual question. Alfred is chugging enough koolaid that he refuses to see it. I worry for Alfred's daughters. He says that one of his daughters doesn't have 'the look" and was turned down for a job working high up in ATI and it really hurt her while one does have "the look" and was offered a job by Gothard. And he does not see one fucking thing wrong with this situation. You know if Gothard molested his daughters he would ignore it.

[lizziesmom]

I agree with formergothardite. Getting women to testify about sexual abuse and rape is difficult under ideal circumstances because the victims are always put on trial as a defense tactic. Couple that with women who have been raised to be subservient, not question men's authority, and believe Gothard is at the right hand of God, and I doubt many will come forward. Even if there is an investigation, it is unlikely it will affect ATI. That's why a lawsuit seeking damages would be much more far reaching IMO.

[keen23]

This sounds like something Anderson Cooper or Nancy Grace would just love to jump all over.

[Ellimenopy]

Doesn't the Basic Course go into detail about what biblical reconciliation looks like? How delicious to have an opportunity to throw that bizarre old man's hypocrisy in his face!

But seriously, like the others, I doubt that much will come of this. The true believers will go on true believing, and IBLP will just continue to slowly bleed out members until it dies a whimpering death. Not that that's a bad thing - scandals and chaos are for important, and Bill Gothard, however much I hate him and however much he wants to think otherwise, was never important outside of his narrow block of followers.

[doggie]

Yay, I really really hope so. Justice needs to be done, he has been getting away with it for too long.

After VF being bought down by a sex scandal, ATI being bought down by an even bigger one might really shake up the fundies. Hopefully it will make at least some of them wary of cults and legalism and start to examine their own beliefs.

And pigs will fly Jesus will fart rainbows and Tim Tebow will win the Super Bowl and the duggers will stop trying to have kids. All more likely.

[doubleT]

As I read this accounts of these young ladies and their experiences (as well as those who said things in the comments) I couldn't help but think of a sad Jana who joined Weight Watchers at an early age. Did she hope to catch the eye of Gothard and be a favorite? And what about the Bates girls who suddenly started dressing more modern and in more attractive, but yet modest, clothing.

[sunshine]

Its sickening that these higher ups who covered it up likely have kids themselves. We know Gil Bates has daughters just the right age for him, and I am sure he isn't the only one who have teen/young adult daughters, or daughters who will one day be that age, or even have granddaughters, sisters, cousins, nieces....or are at least repulsed by the idea of an old man who likes girls young enough to be his granddaughter, especially that we know some of them are underage. Which should be everyone. Why are they turning a blind eye to this and how can they live with themselves? I think if I was one of these people, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing that he is molesting girls and nobody is doing anything. I don't think I could live with the guilt if I had let this go on, or was letting someone who does that have access to my kids and one of them got molested. Do they have no conscience?

Because....sigh....they see the "good" that his program brings and it solidifies families households on how to bring honor to God. When they see it for what it is, they could lose hope and question are they living for God and lose their loving power (influence) over their children. I heard that the next generation is leaving this type of programing, maybe not a max exodus but they are seeing what is going on. So, yay for them.

[RachelB]

The problem with finding out the now is that it often takes years for people to finally get him out of their heads and realize what he was really doing to them. The girls he is doing this to now(Alfred even admits that he currently ogles very young, pretty girls and favors them above all the rest. According to Alfred this is totally normal) most likely aren't going to speak up. They would be shamed by their family and many times won't understand that the uncomfortable feelings they have with what Gothard is doing to them shows that he is doing something wrong.

I think it is going to be hard to bring Gothard down.

ETA: Alfred keep saying that he went to Gothard and asked if he has behaved in sexually inappropriate ways with the young ladies who work with him and then Gothard looked him in the eyes and said "I've never seen a woman's private parts." He answered a question that wasn't asked and refused to answer the actual question. Alfred is chugging enough koolaid that he refuses to see it. I worry for Alfred's daughters. He says that one of his daughters doesn't have 'the look" and was turned down for a job working high up in ATI and it really hurt her while one does have "the look" and was offered a job by Gothard. And he does not see one fucking thing wrong with this situation. You know if Gothard molested his daughters he would ignore it.

Yeah, all I get from Gothard's response there is "Yes, but not in ways that count!" There are all sorts of behaviors that legally and ethically fall under the heading of harassment and assault that don't involve "see[ing] a woman's private parts."

Alfred is a sorry excuse for a father. *spits*

[formergothardite]

Because....sigh....they see the "good" that his program brings and it solidifies families households on how to bring honor to God. When they see it for what it is, they could lose hope and question are they living for God and lose their loving power (influence) over their children. I heard that the next generation is leaving this type of programing, maybe not a max exodus but they are seeing what is going on. So, yay for them.

After reading all this are you still a fan of the Duggars and Bates? Knowing that they knowingly send their daughters to be with a man who, since the 70's, has groomed girls, some as young as 14 to be compliant to his sexual advances can you still say that you like them like you did when you first came here? I can see being a fan and liking them before knowing all this, but you have hung around here long enough to find out the dark side of quiverfull/ATI families, so I'm curious if this has changed your opinion of them.

[bal maiden]

Have any of the Bates girls been to JTTH? I don't recall any of them doing a stint at the HQ. It could be that Gil is one of the directors who is aware of what is going on and knows it's not right.

[formergothardite]

Have any of the Bates girls been to JTTH? I don't recall any of them doing a stint at the HQ. It could be that Gil is one of the directors who is aware of what is going on and knows it's not right.

A year or so ago some of the Bates teen girls went with Gothard on one of his "mission" trips. I think Gil and Kelly are much like Alfred in that they would ignore any abuse and try to shush up any of their daughters that complained.

[BalconySmoker]

Maybe it's not relevant, but does anybody know why Gothard has to get "permission" from a damn board of directors to marry?

I mean, he wouldn't be the first guy of his age to have married a woman in her early 20's. It's a little "ew" but not immoral or illegal to do so. It really wouldn't have caused a huge fuss if he had asked this woman to marry him as he wanted to do.

The problem I (and I think most people on this board) would have had with such a union is the massive imbalance of power in the relationship, he used his position to take advantage of her emotions and that's messed up. But what I don't understand is why a bunch of fundies would have had a problem with him marrying her.

Why does a successful adult male feel like he has to get permission to live like an adult male from his co-workers? In addition to the sexual harassment and spiritual bullying, this is just fucking weird.

[TrueRebel1]

Maybe it's not relevant, but does anybody know why Gothard has to get "permission" from a damn board of directors to marry?

I mean, he wouldn't be the first guy of his age to have married a woman in her early 20's. It's a little "ew" but not immoral or illegal to do so. It really wouldn't have caused a huge fuss if he had asked this woman to marry him as he wanted to do.

The problem I (and I think most people on this board) would have had with such a union is the massive imbalance of power in the relationship, he used his position to take advantage of her emotions and that's messed up. But what I don't understand is why a bunch of fundies would have had a problem with him marrying her.

Why does a successful adult male feel like he has to get permission to live like an adult male from his co-workers? In addition to the sexual harassment and spiritual bullying, this is just fucking weird.

I believe this question was just discussed in the "Sacred Grooming" thread.

[Megan]

Yay, I really really hope so. Justice needs to be done, he has been getting away with it for too long.

After VF being bought down by a sex scandal, ATI being bought down by an even bigger one might really shake up the fundies. Hopefully it will make at least some of them wary of cults and legalism and start to examine their own beliefs.

I can, unfortunately, see a possible other response: further sheltering (and shuttering) of young women from fundie families. Over-the-top statements about how the devil can corrupt even the most righteous of men with such temptation around, etc. etc. They'll highlight the fact that he has (mostly?) been accused of things that aren't overtly sexual ("I did not have relations with that woman"), as is seen in the comments by Alfred that someone posted before.

[ljohnson2006]

Gothard is a sick man. The people who follow him are no better. Open your eyes!

[ViolaSebastian]

Though hoping the connection between Duggars and ATI is revealed. Don't see this happening with the Bates as they are not as well known however, given Zach's campaign, any opponent may pick up on this during campaigning, that's the biggest risk I see for them. Back to the Duggars, now they could face a lot of flak and JB will in all likelihood will choose $$ over Gothard

Does anyone have any suggestions for journalists we could contact to help spread the word about the Duggar/ATI connection once the proverbial shit hits the fan?

[miffy]

Does anyone have any suggestions for journalists we could contact to help spread the word about the Duggar/ATI connection once the proverbial shit hits the fan?

https://twitter.com/julieingersoll

She wrote most of the VF collapse articles that HuffPost published & she is downright awesome/one of us (might actually be a member?)

[feministing]

While I don't think a media explosion will cause the collapse of the program, the appearance of a piece like this in the New York Times, Washington Post, or the like, will force famewhore Jim Boob Duggar to cut ties with the organization in order to preserve his reputation. He would HAVE to act outraged by the behaviour. While outing Gothard won't save every woman, it may very well save the Duggars, and force them to start questioning how they were raised.

I implore anyone with decent writing skills, especially former members of ATI (formergothardite, I'm looking at you) to write a pitch and send it to all the major news outlets. NYT, WP, Chicago Tribune, Miami Herald, Boston Globe, LATimes, etc. i have a few small-fry journalists in my extended family so I know journalists would JUMP at the chance to do an investigative piece on this case. (They wouldn't though, as they are relatively conservative and don't want to alienate the family).

You will be saving the sanity of at the very least dozens of women by doing this. Look at the papers' websites for contact emails of journalists who may be interested. Include a short summary of what has happened (the scandal) and include the necessary contact info of as many people involved as possible. Journalists are more likely to jump on a piece when half the work (finding contacts, summarizing the issue, citing the evidence) has already been done for them.

Please keep me posted!

[formergothardite]

I will write them. I hope somebody will look into this and make the connection between Jim Bob and ATI public. I do agree that JB will choose money over Gothard. JB could act like he was unaware of all this, no way Gil can do that.

[formergothardite]

The latest story about Gothard is horrible. I don't know how even Alfred is going to be able to defend this. He can't claim she was legal and Gothard was looking for marriage since she was 16.

Bill would call me into his office for “counseling and teaching.†I was open about my relationship with my boyfriend. As we talked, Bill would play footsie with me. I loved to be barefooted, and he would always comment on the shades of polish on my toes. I’d talk, and he would rub my feet with his.

He knew what my father had done to me, but he called me into repentance for my own sins without confronting my father or addressing his sin. I was a temptation to men; Bill Gothard told me that I had tempted my own father.

He told me that what happened between us needed to stay between us. I was never to tell anyone else because it was our little secret—was that clear? I understood perfectly.

He gave me cash and told me to buy bras that pushed me up more; he wanted me to always wear them when I was around him. He never wanted me to show him, though. He just liked to touch over the clothing. He would drive me home so I wouldn’t walk alone to my house in the dark. He would hold my hand and rub my leg and tell me not to tell anyone about what we did in his car.

I had told my parents about Bill’s abuse earlier, but they told me I had “asked†for it and that I “tempted†Bill.

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/02/ ... tes-story/ :cry:

[ILoveJellybeans]

AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHH!!!

That is disgusting and wrong.

She was a confused, previously sexually abused teenage girl, and he is a creepy old man.

Surely nobody could find that innocent. He touched a sixteen year old girl's breasts, made her buy bras that showed them off more, put his hand between her legs, made her keep the touches and hugs a secret, got off to making her talk about her past experiences with her boyfriend...Also the last time he saw her before she went home, he kissed her on the lips.

Bill arranged my flight back to O’Hare so we could ride back to Headquarters in the car together. That’s when he first put his hand between my legs and felt me all the way up.

So that's why he specified he hadn't seen a vagina. Hes touched one, but not seen one. Dirty creep.

Ew! Ew! Ew!

Creepy old bastard.

[bal maiden]

Oh, that makes me want to puke. That poor girl.

[formergothardite]

They also provide another post with witnesses to the fact that Gothard spent large amounts of time alone with her. Of course none of them saw him touching her because that was done in private but they did see him picking her up at 5:30 in the morning, lying to isolate her from making friends at the training center, and him being alone with her late at night. She was 16 and a sexual abuse victim and he just abused her more. How can people defend him and his followers anymore.

[freethemall]

While I don't think a media explosion will cause the collapse of the program, the appearance of a piece like this in the New York Times, Washington Post, or the like, will force famewhore Jim Boob Duggar to cut ties with the organization in order to preserve his reputation. He would HAVE to act outraged by the behaviour. While outing Gothard won't save every woman, it may very well save the Duggars, and force them to start questioning how they were raised.

I implore anyone with decent writing skills, especially former members of ATI (formergothardite, I'm looking at you) to write a pitch and send it to all the major news outlets. NYT, WP, Chicago Tribune, Miami Herald, Boston Globe, LATimes, etc. i have a few small-fry journalists in my extended family so I know journalists would JUMP at the chance to do an investigative piece on this case. (They wouldn't though, as they are relatively conservative and don't want to alienate the family).

You will be saving the sanity of at the very least dozens of women by doing this. Look at the papers' websites for contact emails of journalists who may be interested. Include a short summary of what has happened (the scandal) and include the necessary contact info of as many people involved as possible. Journalists are more likely to jump on a piece when half the work (finding contacts, summarizing the issue, citing the evidence) has already been done for them.

Please keep me posted!

Hey feministing, don't forget what happened with the Tools resignation, you never know at this point what could push another jerk like Gothard to resign!

Jezebel/Gawker should definitely be contacted, they could ensure this goes viral.

[feministing]

The latest story about Gothard is horrible. I don't know how even Alfred is going to be able to defend this. He can't claim she was legal and Gothard was looking for marriage since she was 16.

Bill would call me into his office for “counseling and teaching.†I was open about my relationship with my boyfriend. As we talked, Bill would play footsie with me. I loved to be barefooted, and he would always comment on the shades of polish on my toes. I’d talk, and he would rub my feet with his.

He knew what my father had done to me, but he called me into repentance for my own sins without confronting my father or addressing his sin. I was a temptation to men; Bill Gothard told me that I had tempted my own father.

He told me that what happened between us needed to stay between us. I was never to tell anyone else because it was our little secret—was that clear? I understood perfectly.

He gave me cash and told me to buy bras that pushed me up more; he wanted me to always wear them when I was around him. He never wanted me to show him, though. He just liked to touch over the clothing. He would drive me home so I wouldn’t walk alone to my house in the dark. He would hold my hand and rub my leg and tell me not to tell anyone about what we did in his car.

I had told my parents about Bill’s abuse earlier, but they told me I had “asked†for it and that I “tempted†Bill.

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/02/ ... tes-story/ :cry:

The blatant hypocrisy! It burns!