Slut-shaming the mother during a christening

[Vex]

My cousin and his wife just had their first child together 2 months ago after being married for about a year. It's his first marriage and her second. She's Catholic, and their baby was christened today and had a proper mass and everything.

It was proceeding as normal when the priest began to go on what can only be described as a rant about how people should never, ever divorce and any man who marries a divorced woman is enabling her to commit adultery. This happened in the middle of the christening. It was incredibly out of place - how the hell does a rant about divorce belong in a christening mass? - but even worse it was clearly aimed at my cousin's wife, who has two children from her previous marriage who are obviously not my cousin's because of their different ethnicity. It basically equated to a none-too-subtle episode of slut-shaming because she slept with and married more than one man.

Shockingly (and I guess, fortunately) my cousin and his wife didn't seem to realise that the father's rant was out of place or aimed at them. My cousin knows nothing about Catholicism and his wife doesn't speak English very well.

Have any of you ever encountered this kind of rant in the middle of a christening? I know that 'divorce + remarriage = adultery' is a common theme across many denominations (although I've never heard of it being the man/unmarried party's fault), but I've attended other ceremonies at that church with a different father before (weddings and christenings within my family) and there's never been any hint of such a fundie view of divorce and marriage.

[Patsy]

That is Catholic doctrine (unless the marriage was "anulled" and declared retroactively invalid, divorce doesn't count and remarriage is something like adultery/bigamy), but certainly not Catholic practice to go off on a rant during a Christening or to bring it up to the couple. Weird, not cool priest.

[anjulibai]

There are cool Catholic priests and their are asshole Catholic priests. This one was the latter.

[FloraKitty35]

Wow, what an asshole.

[GeoBQn]

Please tell me he didn't get an honorarium after that.

[linnea27]

...so, should your cousin correct his 'mistake' and divorce her? According to the priest, I mean? What a stupid and pointless rant.

[louisa05]

There are cool Catholic priests and their are asshole Catholic priests. This one was the latter.

This.

My husband's uncle married a much younger woman at the courthouse when she was four months pregnant, after living with another woman for five years and knowing the new wife for only a few months before the pregnancy. They had the baby baptized in Catholic church. Priest talked about what a lovely family they will be. This was in a little farming town so small that if you blink while driving through you'll miss it. The priest knew the circumstances and didn't care.

Because there are cool priests and asshole priests. Kind of like any other profession. Our parish has one of each.

[danvillebelle]

What a jerk.

And I cannot help but think that Pope Francis would have a few choice words for said jerk. And maybe remove him from his parish.

[anjulibai]

This.

My husband's uncle married a much younger woman at the courthouse when she was four months pregnant, after living with another woman for five years and knowing the new wife for only a few months before the pregnancy. They had the baby baptized in Catholic church. Priest talked about what a lovely family they will be. This was in a little farming town so small that if you blink while driving through you'll miss it. The priest knew the circumstances and didn't care.

Because there are cool priests and asshole priests. Kind of like any other profession. Our parish has one of each.

My great-uncle has been married 5 times - divorce the first 4.

His fifth wife was a widow from her first marriage and wanted a Catholic ceremony. They found a lovely priest who was willing to perform the mass for them in the church. The priest made several tasteful jokes about marriage and no mention was made of the fact that my great-uncle was divorced 4 times.

A few years later, the same priest performed the ceremony for my uncle's son and his second wife. It wasn't in the church, though, but an outdoor wedding. The priest did just a few readings.

Now, most of that side of my side of the family are lapsed Catholics, and many of them said that if all priests were like that priest, they'd still be going to church.

[Jana814]

Wow, what an asshole.

Agree!

[Katydid]

My cousin and his wife just had their first child together 2 months ago after being married for about a year. It's his first marriage and her second. She's Catholic, and their baby was christened today and had a proper mass and everything.

It was proceeding as normal when the priest began to go on what can only be described as a rant about how people should never, ever divorce and any man who marries a divorced woman is enabling her to commit adultery. This happened in the middle of the christening. It was incredibly out of place - how the hell does a rant about divorce belong in a christening mass? - but even worse it was clearly aimed at my cousin's wife, who has two children from her previous marriage who are obviously not my cousin's because of their different ethnicity. It basically equated to a none-too-subtle episode of slut-shaming because she slept with and married more than one man.

Shockingly (and I guess, fortunately) my cousin and his wife didn't seem to realise that the father's rant was out of place or aimed at them. My cousin knows nothing about Catholicism and his wife doesn't speak English very well.

Have any of you ever encountered this kind of rant in the middle of a christening? I know that 'divorce + remarriage = adultery' is a common theme across many denominations (although I've never heard of it being the man/unmarried party's fault), but I've attended other ceremonies at that church with a different father before (weddings and christenings within my family) and there's never been any hint of such a fundie view of divorce and marriage.

What? I've been Catholic my entire life and I've never heard *anything* like this. That's horrible; that priest was out of line. Most parishes that I've gone to have all had monthly baptisms, where the children are all baptized in a group during Mass.

[YPestis]

That's kind of weird. I don't think it was appropriate talk stuff at a christening at all. However, I do know some Catholics and the Church are very big on annulling a marriage or the second marriage is actually adultery so maybe this priest was really pissed off that some people weren't doing it. Still, kind of an asshole thing to do. It's a christening, no need to ruin it for everyone.

[Cleopatra7]

On the "Catholic Answers" board, I've seen posts from people who wish that priests would "tell it like it is" (i.e., denounce the deceased at funerals if they were "public sinners" and not marry inter-faith couples and the like). Fortunately, this opinion seems to be in the minority, as far as I can tell.

[Arete]

On the "Catholic Answers" board, I've seen posts from people who wish that priests would "tell it like it is" (i.e., denounce the deceased at funerals if they were "public sinners" and not marry inter-faith couples and the like). Fortunately, this opinion seems to be in the minority, as far as I can tell.

Assholes, like the poor, will always be with us. They are hardly the majority of Catholic laity, just as this priest does not represent the experience most of us have had at Catholic baptisms. They do however, have the loudest mouths and are the biggest attention whores.

[scc12]

yikes,most aren't like that, but I have encountered a few self-righteous ones,of different faiths.

[Diana]

My great-uncle has been married 5 times - divorce the first 4.

His fifth wife was a widow from her first marriage and wanted a Catholic ceremony. They found a lovely priest who was willing to perform the mass for them in the church. The priest made several tasteful jokes about marriage and no mention was made of the fact that my great-uncle was divorced 4 times.

A few years later, the same priest performed the ceremony for my uncle's son and his second wife. It wasn't in the church, though, but an outdoor wedding. The priest did just a few readings.

Now, most of that side of my side of the family are lapsed Catholics, and many of them said that if all priests were like that priest, they'd still be going to church.

I dont understand why any catholic priest in the world would have any problem performing these weddings, it doesnt matter how many times this people were married before, because for the catholic church only the catholic marriage is valid, so even if you great-uncle was married 4 times for the church he still was an unmarried person. Even if his marriage was a catholic one, after an anulation any priest would not have a problem marrying him because he would be considered a never married person also.

what about that couple from the first post? was her first marriage a catholic one? even if thats the case im shocked that the priest talked like that in a mass, most worse a baptism, i never heard something like that.

[nausicaa]

Not a Catholic ceremony, but at my cousin's wedding the evangelical pastor opened her sermon with a formal introduction, then stepped off of her pulpit to pace back and forth across the raised stage to lecture us over-heated, Mississppi Delta, Pentecostal preacher style about how divorce is evil and divorced people permanently tarnished (the grooms parents were divorced, as are several of my aunts/uncles), we modern people are lazy and entitled, women want love while men want respect, and how our modern culture and apostate religions (the bride's family is mostly Catholic, the groom's almost entirely Greek Orthodox) have perverted what traditional marriage is and these two people were her ray of hope because they had approached her to marry them, which must be a sign that they were wiser than most.

The kicker? The bride and groom had their two children together as their ring bearer and flower girl and had been living together for the past five years. There were also some DUIs and a hefty dose of tax evasion in their pasts so I particularly didn't want a morality lecture at their wedding.

[Coconut Flan]

First point, yes jerk of a priest. Thankfully there aren't as many of them around as there used to be.

Second, the Catholic Church DOES recognize the validity of certain other marriages. For instance if two baptized Christians marry and divorce, then the Catholic Church requests/expects that they will get an annulment for one of them to remarry in the Catholic Church. However, two unbaptized people marrying is only a slight detail to be handled.

[Hane]

Re the four-times-divorced uncle having his fifth wedding performed by a priest: if the uncle had never been baptized, or.if his former marriages.had been civil ceremonies, there'd be no problem.with a Catholic wedding.

[Vex]

The christening was after the regular Sunday mass at the church, so it was full of parishioners. He basically shamed them in front of the town's entire Catholic community. My cousin's wife agreed to have it then because she really wanted their son christened and she wanted to attend Mass as she's very observant. Just to clarify, the rant about adultery came during the christening rather than during Mass.

Unfortunately, he did get his honorarium.

[Georgiana]

I'm from a very Catholic family, but my aunt married a divorced man. She was not allowed to be married in the Church, and she cannot/does not receive Communion as she is not in communion with the Church because she is technically an adulteress. I'm sure she really could take the Sacrament if she fought it, but she doesn't.

My cousins were baptized, but in a small ceremony as the parents were not technically members of the Church.

This is all very silly as my other friend walked down the aisle in the Cathedral several months pregnant. Really, why is one act of extra-marital sex different from the other?

[SisterLilBunny]

Huh. Usually I see that fire and brimstone shaming reserved for those of us burning in hell during evangelical funerals. From a Catholic ceremony?? Dude missed his calling didn't he??

[Vex]

He would have made a great evangelical, that's for sure. If it had been me I would have walked out rather than have a priest slap me in the face with one hand while he christened my child with the other.

Part of me wants to explain what he did to my cousins so they can make an informed choice about confronting the priest or leaving the congregation, but I don't want anyone to be upset or to tarnish their memories.

[salex]

Huh. Usually I see that fire and brimstone shaming reserved for those of us burning in hell during evangelical funerals. From a Catholic ceremony?? Dude missed his calling didn't he??

We were at a Catholic funeral mass at a pre vatican II style church where the Priest got a bit off the tracks. His own congregation thought nothing of it, but lots of other people in attendance were surprised or angered by it.

[julie paradox]

Interestingly, our gospel reading this morning mentioned this:

“It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.' But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery." (Matt 5:31-32)

so yeah... not entirely unbiblical... I'm unfamiliar with Catholic doctrine but other posters' responses indicate that it's grown more nuanced over the years!

Still a shitty thing to do to an individual.