Duggars, Duggars Everywhere - general discussion Part 4

[Ellimenopy]

Can someone with actually knowledge about ALERT fill me in on what goes on? As an outsider it just looks like a bunch of kids playing soldiers. How does it BREAK someone's will?

Since every Duggar boy has gone to ALERT I question whether it is more of a right of passage and something they want to do as opposed to Mom and Dad using it to break a child.

I'm sure whether ALERT feels like indoctrination or not depends on the child. If you're outdoorsy, and consider yourself a scouty type, then ALERT probably seems like fun. If you're not... it can definitely be seen as punishment. Long days of physical labor and Bible memorization? The fact that some or most of the attendees like probably make it a more insidious form of indoctrination. If you don't like it, then there's something wrong with you, not the program.

[Cleopatra7]

I'm sure whether ALERT feels like indoctrination or not depends on the child. If you're outdoorsy, and consider yourself a scouty type, then ALERT probably seems like fun. If you're not... it can definitely be seen as punishment. Long days of physical labor and Bible memorization? The fact that some or most of the attendees like probably make it a more insidious form of indoctrination. If you don't like it, then there's something wrong with you, not the program.

Mixing hard labor with rote memorization of group dogma is a standard brainwashing technique, used in environments ranging from Chinese re-education camps to the Jonestown cult. Whether a boy enjoys being at the camp or not, the end result -- increased loyalty to Gothardism -- is supposed to be the same.

[halcionne]

More about the upcoming season:

thefutoncritic.com/news/2014/02/18/duggar-family-shares-secrets-of-courting-in-new-season-of-19-kids-and-counting-325410/20140218tlc01/?utm_source=web&utm_medium=twitter

WRT chaperoned text messages, how does that work? Are parents/chaperones included in a group SMS that they read without replying (I hope they don't reply, anyway)? Or is there some chaperone app out there? This makes me :lol: but there's an app for everything these days, I suppose. If it's the former, wouldn't it be easy for Ben & Jessa to send godly texts to the group and the occasional less than godly one to their intended, on the down low? :penguin-no:

[MaroonMandy]

There are apps that will send you all of the texts, picture messages, videos, etc. that your child gets on their phone. My overly neurotic sister-in-law uses My Mobile Watchdog which sends her the pics and messages, allows her to block apps and even the camera, sets time limits and allows GPS tracking.

[Rita]

Another solution is to not allow direct messages - go through an accountability buddy who has to forward everything to the intended.

[lillybeth]

There are apps that will send you all of the texts, picture messages, videos, etc. that your child gets on their phone. My overly neurotic sister-in-law uses My Mobile Watchdog which sends her the pics and messages, allows her to block apps and even the camera, sets time limits and allows GPS tracking.

This makes me so incredibly sad.

[Mela99]

This makes me so incredibly sad.

I wonder if they continue to do it while they're engaged

[Dandruff]

More about the upcoming season:

thefutoncritic.com/news/2014/02/18/duggar-family-shares-secrets-of-courting-in-new-season-of-19-kids-and-counting-325410/20140218tlc01/?utm_source=web&utm_medium=twitter

Seems to me that the constant chaperoning lets the couple they aren't trustworthy, and simply deters them from saying or doing any "wrong" thing - at least until they're married. Wouldn't a little solitude and temptation allow the couple to really get to know each other (and I don't mean this in any immodest way) and help root out sociopaths and abusers?

[MaroonMandy]

This makes me so incredibly sad.

Me too. MaroonNephew is a good kid. He's a little sheltered (obviously) and this isn't helping. If he were messing up, getting arrested, what have you, I can (kinda) see going to this extent, but he's just not like that. The worst thing he's done is be 5 minutes late for an 8:00 curfew. And the hubs and I were the ones who picked him up and brought him home late... :roll:

[Maryannb]

In one of the shows, when they talked about her courtship, I think they showed that it's an iMessage, going to a whole group of people. That's how they're monitoring the texts between them. It's in the messaging settings, for which email addresses and phone numbers on your account you'd like to receive the iMessages on that device.

[Alachantal]

In one of the shows, when they talked about her courtship, I think they showed that it's an iMessage, going to a whole group of people. That's how they're monitoring the texts between them. It's in the messaging settings, for which email addresses and phone numbers on your account you'd like to receive the iMessages on that device.

That's how I remember it as well - in the last episode they showed Jessa sending a text and then J'chelle & Boob's phones receiving whatever she'd sent as well. (I'm on Android so I have no clue about iMessage, but that could be it as well.)

Honestly, it really saddens me. I am a firm believer that what happens in a relationship is between the couple - with my nosy MIL that's been a bit of a challenge, but no where near the lack of privacy they must get. I suppose they must be used to the lack of privacy considering they grew up with it and would consider it normal, but for me even attempting to wrap my head around it infuriates me. :angry-banghead: I wonder if Josh has to call home to ask permission for things even though he's a grown man with his own family - it wouldn't surprise me at all, that's for sure.

[lillybeth]

That's how I remember it as well - in the last episode they showed Jessa sending a text and then J'chelle & Boob's phones receiving whatever she'd sent as well. (I'm on Android so I have no clue about iMessage, but that could be it as well.)

Honestly, it really saddens me. I am a firm believer that what happens in a relationship is between the couple - with my nosy MIL that's been a bit of a challenge, but no where near the lack of privacy they must get. I suppose they must be used to the lack of privacy considering they grew up with it and would consider it normal, but for me even attempting to wrap my head around it infuriates me. :angry-banghead: I wonder if Josh has to call home to ask permission for things even though he's a grown man with his own family - it wouldn't surprise me at all, that's for sure.

I remember this, also. However, if that's the only way they're doing it, there are definitely ways around that. Let's assume they all share an apple ID: anything that would be sent to that apple ID would be sent to all the device; however, anything that was sent directly to her telephone number wouldn't be shared across (or at least that's how it seems for me and my two devices). I really hope for Blessa's sake that this is how boob/mullet are monitoring, and not through one of those awful apps MarronMandy mentioned. That way I'd hope Blessa was keeping face with one monitored thread, and then had another private one. (A girl can dream.)

[Katydid]

Me too. MaroonNephew is a good kid. He's a little sheltered (obviously) and this isn't helping. If he were messing up, getting arrested, what have you, I can (kinda) see going to this extent, but he's just not like that. The worst thing he's done is be 5 minutes late for an 8:00 curfew. And the hubs and I were the ones who picked him up and brought him home late... :roll:

I can see where this would be a useful tool if you were dealing with a child who you knew had problems with sexting or social media bullying or was in a lot of trouble (drugs or whatever). But other than as a way to monitor a child you are seriously worried about, it seems way, way, way too invasive to me.

I do think the time limit is a good thing though; I wonder if there's an app that allows *just* that kind of monitoring of the phone?

[MaroonMandy]

I can see where this would be a useful tool if you were dealing with a child who you knew had problems with sexting or social media bullying or was in a lot of trouble (drugs or whatever). But other than as a way to monitor a child you are seriously worried about, it seems way, way, way too invasive to me.

I do think the time limit is a good thing though; I wonder if there's an app that allows *just* that kind of monitoring of the phone?

I know there is for iPhones, not an app but a way to set it up at least. Our niece (same dad, different mom as the kid on lockdown) isn't able to use her phone from like 9 p.m.-6 a.m. You can call her, leave text message and she can even type them, but nothing is sent or received until the next morning. I know she's sent me messages after 9 and they don't come through til the next morning. Which is usually my day off so it wakes me up nice and early.

[Alachantal]

I remember this, also. However, if that's the only way they're doing it, there are definitely ways around that. Let's assume they all share an apple ID: anything that would be sent to that apple ID would be sent to all the device; however, anything that was sent directly to her telephone number wouldn't be shared across (or at least that's how it seems for me and my two devices). I really hope for Blessa's sake that this is how boob/mullet are monitoring, and not through one of those awful apps MarronMandy mentioned. That way I'd hope Blessa was keeping face with one monitored thread, and then had another private one. (A girl can dream.)

If that's how the iPhone/apple ID thing works than I could totally see her doing that. For some reason it is very easy to picture Jessa "sneaking around" texting Ben. But then she'd be relying on him not to turn her in. And maybe it's just me, but I can't help but think that living that lifestyle would make you extremely paranoid of being tattled on or turned in to mom & dad. I'm not sure if she'd put her potential freedom at risk for a few secret words. But then again, you never know. I just hope they can actually have a private friggin conversation for once.

Woooo Pearl Clutcher now haha :dance:

[lillybeth]

If that's how the iPhone/apple ID thing works than I could totally see her doing that. For some reason it is very easy to picture Jessa "sneaking around" texting Ben. But then she'd be relying on him not to turn her in. And maybe it's just me, but I can't help but think that living that lifestyle would make you extremely paranoid of being tattled on or turned in to mom & dad. I'm not sure if she'd put her potential freedom at risk for a few secret words. But then again, you never know. I just hope they can actually have a private friggin conversation for once.

Woooo Pearl Clutcher now haha :dance:

You're probably totally right. But , it would put Ben in quite the difficult situation then, wouldn't it? He's most likely trying to please the parents (a few have mentioned sucking up to boob), but at the same time, he wouldn't want to piss off Jessa either... Or would she already be expected to conform to his every desire?

[Handmaiden of Dog]

I think the idea of chaperoning adults and especially engaged couples stinks. These couples have to monitor every word and censor every message. Imagine if Jessa wants to be open with Ben about her true feelings:

"I don't want to have more than 3 children" or

"I'll move anywhere to be with you as long as we leave this state." or

"How do you feel about the idea of having a TV in the house?" or

"I will never use plumbing line on my children."

The way these fundies attempt to control their grown children's lives infuriates me. And there is nothing worse then not allowing a courting couple to be open and honest with each other.

[Nobodysdoormat]

Man, to escape this type of monitoring, I'd marry the first man that came along!

[Nobodysdoormat]

Now that I'm thinking about it, the girls I knew in high school that came from super religious homes, didn't seem to mind the control. Talk about coming from a different place than the average teenager! I'm sure they'd celebrate the difference though.

[lizziesmom]

Unlike many of you I don't hold out much hope that any Duggar will do anything mom and dad would not approve of. Their entire lifestyle is one of obedience, indoctrination, and the ATI way of life. Individualism is discouraged for the most part. You do not question authority and intellectual curiosity is certainly not a priority. The head ships and the Bible have all the answers. ALERT and Journeys of the Heart may be concentrated training but it's just a furtherance of the whole package of cultism or extremism that these families undergo.

[Mela99]

Unlike many of you I don't hold out much hope that any Duggar will do anything mom and dad would not approve of. Their entire lifestyle is one of obedience, indoctrination, and the ATI way of life. Individualism is discouraged for the most part. You do not question authority and intellectual curiosity is certainly not a priority. The head ships and the Bible have all the answers. ALERT and Journeys of the Heart may be concentrated training but it's just a furtherance of the whole package of cultism or extremism that these families undergo.

Same here. I don't think any of them have it in them to go - but then again, there are stories of FLDS girls running away and getting safe, so... there's always hope

[singsingsing]

I think at least one or two of them will break away. It might not be dramatic - probably more like becoming a moderate Christian who wears jeans and uses birth control, or deciding to vote Democrat, rather than becoming an exotic dancer or a militant atheist (not saying that's impossible, just less likely) - but with that many kids it's bound to happen. I'd watch the younger ones, the ones who were raised less strictly, who grew up on TV.

[lillybeth]

This is where I really don't have a lot of experience with fundie-um.. If jinger (or any of the duggars) are to be "freed," what sort of series of events would need to happen? (I realize this is a huge question, which I'm sure this has probably been discussed before)

[veron1que]

I think a good number of the younger kids will break off. Most of them have zero relationship with their parents, they have been cared for mainly siblings, and are unruly and undisciplined. I don't think jimbob and Michelle will have any control over them when they are grown.

[Coconut Flan]

I think several will break with the ultra-strict ATI. I'm sure a few will be able to see that they don't want to do to their children what was done to them. Some will hopefully see that having as many children as possible normally leads to a life of poverty. I don't see them going wild, but a few will probably have a lot fewer children and I think there will be some not homeschooling and probably some will end up going to a real church. It may be 10 or 20 years down the road though before they begin the breaks as the more free range kids grow up and the parents age.