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Duggars, Duggars Everywhere - general discussion Part 4


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I will say again that if I ever wrote a dissertation this will be my topic. fundies have built a whole mystique about sex that a) binds these couples together, preventing straying (unless you are Doug); b) ensures big families through constant sex c) mythologized sex so it is the most important thing ever and d) ensures that every single sexual impulse of any kind has no outlet other than Married, P in V, Holy procreative sex.

Here is how it's done.

1. For the unmarried, sex or sexual thoughts are forbidden. Sexual images, including looking at scantily clad real-life women, are verboten. No physical contact with the opposite sex till marriage. Sex becomes highly anticipated and is guarded with secrecy by the married, but dangled like a carrot as the reward for a chaste courtship.

2. The incredible fear of, and avoidance of, porn is to make as certain as possible at all sexual impulses are directed to the wife. Same for forbidding masturbation. This way, the man is dependent on the woman for all sexual release. This means more sex, and that means more babies.

3. The cult of maintaining a slim figure and long hair is to keep him attracted to the wife, therefore more sex and more babies.

4. Being happy to receive the attentions of the husband, no matter what = prevents masturbation and porn temptations.

At least , I think that's the goal.

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Anonymous asked: Modesty is more than how you dress. Its how you act and what you say. If your words or actions aren't modest, can you really say "I am modest?"

My guess would be no you can’t say you are modest. You need to be modest with your entire self to be able to truthfully say “I am modestâ€

From the Duggar Tumblr. Also, someone saying Jessa and Ben were chaperoneless.

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Anonymous asked: Modesty is more than how you dress. Its how you act and what you say. If your words or actions aren't modest, can you really say "I am modest?"

My guess would be no you can’t say you are modest. You need to be modest with your entire self to be able to truthfully say “I am modestâ€

From the Duggar Tumblr. Also, someone saying Jessa and Ben were chaperoneless.

OMG they're already married!

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Who's saying they're running around without chaperones? All I saw was whoever runs the tumblr responding to some anonymous question that, in her opinion, IF they were out without chaperones, their relationship must be more serious. I seriously doubt that they're allowed out without a chaperone - none of them ever are - and it's beyond belief to me that they could have already gotten married and somehow managed to keep it secret from the internet.

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Who's saying they're running around without chaperones? All I saw was whoever runs the tumblr responding to some anonymous question that, in her opinion, IF they were out without chaperones, their relationship must be more serious. I seriously doubt that they're allowed out without a chaperone - none of them ever are - and it's beyond belief to me that they could have already gotten married and somehow managed to keep it secret from the internet.

I very much agree with you. Something would have been leaked. Must suck to have TLC and fame-whoring controlling their lives.

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I will say again that if I ever wrote a dissertation this will be my topic. fundies have built a whole mystique about sex that a) binds these couples together, preventing straying (unless you are Doug); b) ensures big families through constant sex c) mythologized sex so it is the most important thing ever and d) ensures that every single sexual impulse of any kind has no outlet other than Married, P in V, Holy procreative sex.

Here is how it's done.

1. For the unmarried, sex or sexual thoughts are forbidden. Sexual images, including looking at scantily clad real-life women, are verboten. No physical contact with the opposite sex till marriage. Sex becomes highly anticipated and is guarded with secrecy by the married, but dangled like a carrot as the reward for a chaste courtship.

2. The incredible fear of, and avoidance of, porn is to make as certain as possible at all sexual impulses are directed to the wife. Same for forbidding masturbation. This way, the man is dependent on the woman for all sexual release. This means more sex, and that means more babies.

3. The cult of maintaining a slim figure and long hair is to keep him attracted to the wife, therefore more sex and more babies.

4. Being happy to receive the attentions of the husband, no matter what = prevents masturbation and porn temptations.

At least , I think that's the goal.

Yet at the same time, these fundies talk about sex and their sex lives much more openly than any secular people or mainstream Christians I have ever known. Ditto for fundie women and all their pregnancy/breastfeeding/gynecological issues. Michelle goes on TV (and the less famous among them blog) discussing stuff that mainstream women only tell their sisters, their BFFs, and maybe their doctors. I mean, when was the last time you went to an office party or a neighbor's barbecue and had to hear some women you don't know talking about her inverted nipples? Or about how she never says no to her husband?

These people have some f-ed up boundaries.

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Something else has to be going on with Jessa and Ben though; he hasn't posted pictures or put anything on social media since the March for Life. Maybe TLC was worried about him saying too much and told him to stop?

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The relationship progressed far enough for TLC to put him under contract is my guess.

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And the new season is starting in about a month, so that could be another reason he's gone quiet.

Edit: And according to Rotan in that comment left on a blog a few weeks ago Ben is contracted not to talk about the courtship (I guess unless the pictures/comments are approved by TLC first). What a way to live!

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D

And the new season is starting in about a month, so that could be another reason he's gone quiet.

Edit: And according to Rotan in that comment left on a blog a few weeks ago Ben is contracted not to talk about the courtship (I guess unless the pictures/comments are approved by TLC first). What a way to live!

And I would imagine that is why JD, Jana and Jill are not in relationships-that we know of.... I feel sorry for Jessa...her intended is as big a sell out as her parents.

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I doubt they're married already and I bet they ahd someone tailing them, even if it didn't look like a chaperone was with them

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I doubt they're married already and I bet they ahd someone tailing them, even if it didn't look like a chaperone was with them

Yeah, just like the Stasi were always watching Katarina Witt, whether she could see them or not.

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D

And I would imagine that is why JD, Jana and Jill are not in relationships-that we know of.... I feel sorry for Jessa...her intended is as big a sell out as her parents.

I think the reason why JD, Jana, or Jill are not courting is because they are more valuable to JB at home than they are out in the world. Josh was married off first probably because 1. he's the oldest 2. JB and Michelle probably worried about his ability to control his libido 3. he doesn't strike me as being handy around the house like JD and Joseph 4. having at least one child out of the house and married makes the Duggars look good.

Like Josh, Jessa is more valuable out of the house. Unlike Jill, Jessa doesn't particularly enjoy being a sister-mom and doesn't have the same resignation to life that Jana has. Jessa has probably found ways to game the system over the years, and I can see her actively complaining about the restrictions she has vis a vis other women her age. Jessa's loss in the TTH won't affect the day to day routine of the household in the same way that it would if Jill or Jana were courting.

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I think the reason why JD, Jana, or Jill are not courting is because they are more valuable to JB at home than they are out in the world. Josh was married off first probably because 1. he's the oldest 2. JB and Michelle probably worried about his ability to control his libido 3. he doesn't strike me as being handy around the house like JD and Joseph 4. having at least one child out of the house and married makes the Duggars look good.

Like Josh, Jessa is more valuable out of the house. Unlike Jill, Jessa doesn't particularly enjoy being a sister-mom and doesn't have the same resignation to life that Jana has. Jessa has probably found ways to game the system over the years, and I can see her actively complaining about the restrictions she has vis a vis other women her age. Jessa's loss in the TTH won't affect the day to day routine of the household in the same way that it would if Jill or Jana were courting.

I agree with you about Jessa's behavior but don't think that Jim Bob and Michelle are consciously deciding who's worth more "at home." I also don't think Jill particularly likes the sister wife gig. It seems to me that she's been making herself less and less available for family functions now that she's got her midwife gig. She may like babies, but I think she likes being treated as an adult (and she would be, for a professional job, no matter how casual) more.

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I agree with you about Jessa's behavior but don't think that Jim Bob and Michelle are consciously deciding who's worth more "at home." I also don't think Jill particularly likes the sister wife gig. It seems to me that she's been making herself less and less available for family functions now that she's got her midwife gig. She may like babies, but I think she likes being treated as an adult (and she would be, for a professional job, no matter how casual) more.

I also get the impression that Jill is really happy doing the midwifery thing and living at home. I wonder if watching all those women give birth makes her feel less inclined to get pregnant anytime soon. Jill seems to enjoy working and learning, which is a shame because she will only be able to do so much being a female in their cult. As the primary Kool-aid drinker, she'll never leave, but I could see her trying to have as much adult autonomy as possible while still being a SAHD.

As for Jana, I genuinely think she wants more out of life and is being held back. Knowing she was once a spunky child makes me even more sad for her.

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I don't think Jill is the primary Kool-Aid drinker, my money is on her as an escapee. Maybe not in a big dramatic-break-with-the-fold way, but in a quiet, steady way where she gradually makes a life for herself. She is the only one of the older girls who seems to have a drive to learn and do something a bit different - learning Spanish, learning the midwifery stuff, wanting to go and be a missionary in Latin America... Yes, those things are all within the realm of biblical womanhood blah blah, but given how she's been raised, those demonstrate independent thought and drive.

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I agree with you about Jessa's behavior but don't think that Jim Bob and Michelle are consciously deciding who's worth more "at home." I also don't think Jill particularly likes the sister wife gig. It seems to me that she's been making herself less and less available for family functions now that she's got her midwife gig. She may like babies, but I think she likes being treated as an adult (and she would be, for a professional job, no matter how casual) more.

I agree. I think the duggar parents are misguided, wrong, and a wee bjt stupid, and at times Dim Bulb seems childishly stupid, but I really do think hat they're brainwashed enough that they really think this lifestyle is best for their daughters. I also think they really do want be best for their kids, they just can't see that this ISN'T the best and is harmful.

They don't strike me as cold and calculating about who to let to when, unlike a certain man I know who's name rhymes with "hell."

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I agree. They are misguided but not calculating. I think they are ready to let the older kids marry when/if they meet the right person that meets their criteria. Unless there is a mass exit like the Bates are having the Duggars would be fine with a couple of kids getting married at this point. All of the boys are old enough now to do most things for themselves. Even the "little girls" are all potty trained and dressing themselves at this point. All they need is one or two girls to do the cooking and one or two boys to do the outside work and they will be fine. All the other kids can take care of the cleaning and upkeep of the home.

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I also get the impression that Jill is really happy doing the midwifery thing and living at home. I wonder if watching all those women give birth makes her feel less inclined to get pregnant anytime soon. Jill seems to enjoy working and learning, which is a shame because she will only be able to do so much being a female in their cult. As the primary Kool-aid drinker, she'll never leave, but I could see her trying to have as much adult autonomy as possible while still being a SAHD.

As for Jana, I genuinely think she wants more out of life and is being held back. Knowing she was once a spunky child makes me even more sad for her.

Imagine the level of freedom Jill must feel at this point - adults relying on her for the safe prenatal care and delivery of their precious babies. People are relying on her experience, expertise and problem solving skills for guiding pregnant women and their families through childbirth. Feeling needed in such a way - in other words, doing something that "not just anyone can step into and do" - must feel so rewarding and amazing and confidence-building. Sure, she's still training, and a lot of clients might go the midwife route for financial or "modesty" reasons, but it's a skilled service, and she's becoming an authority figure on such service.

Jill has somehow created the opportunity to arrive at this wonderful place where you're contributing to the world, and developing self-sufficiency on every level. That is my wish for all of the kids in similar situations as the Duggars - those with no real education, no critical thinking skills, and no chance for learning or growing outside of the business brand family - may find their place in this world where they will find where they are needed, where people rely on them for something "that not just anyone can do", etc.

After leaving the workforce due to my health, I struggled for a long, long time with losing the feeling of being needed that I had at work. I have recently found it again, and it's such an amazing feeling!

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Painting with a broad brush here, but my general impression is that fundies are beyond dysfunctinal when it comes to the sex act. They are told it's wrong, they must be modest, fornication is evil EXCEPT when it's being done to create babies for God. Not sure that Jim Bob and Michelle aren't totally deluding themselves as to her fertility because of this.

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Imagine the level of freedom Jill must feel at this point - adults relying on her for the safe prenatal care and delivery of their precious babies. People are relying on her experience, expertise and problem solving skills for guiding pregnant women and their families through childbirth. Feeling needed in such a way - in other words, doing something that "not just anyone can step into and do" - must feel so rewarding and amazing and confidence-building. Sure, she's still training, and a lot of clients might go the midwife route for financial or "modesty" reasons, but it's a skilled service, and she's becoming an authority figure on such service.

Jill has somehow created the opportunity to arrive at this wonderful place where you're contributing to the world, and developing self-sufficiency on every level. That is my wish for all of the kids in similar situations as the Duggars - those with no real education, no critical thinking skills, and no chance for learning or growing outside of the business brand family - may find their place in this world where they will find where they are needed, where people rely on them for something "that not just anyone can do", etc.

After leaving the workforce due to my health, I struggled for a long, long time with losing the feeling of being needed that I had at work. I have recently found it again, and it's such an amazing feeling!

If she gets to stay home from all these outings, because she has to work, imagine all the personal freedom she's enjoying as well. She can decide what _she_ wants to eat. She can go to Walmart by herself. She can sneak off to a movie, or write a letter... the little bit of "work" freedom that she's bought herself by being so godly has gotten her a world of slack in the rest of her life. If she *was* the one drinking the most koolaid at first, I wouldn't bet on it continuing if she's gotten even a taste of making decisions as a grown up.

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I hope that Anna doesn't beat the spunk out of her kids, like J'Chelle did. Jill being able not to go on every family outing is the best thing that could've happened to her. These kids deserve a better life. It's sad that they're so complacent with how they live, and don't question why their parents chose to do what they do.

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I agree. They are misguided but not calculating. I think they are ready to let the older kids marry when/if they meet the right person that meets their criteria. Unless there is a mass exit like the Bates are having the Duggars would be fine with a couple of kids getting married at this point. All of the boys are old enough now to do most things for themselves. Even the "little girls" are all potty trained and dressing themselves at this point. All they need is one or two girls to do the cooking and one or two boys to do the outside work and they will be fine. All the other kids can take care of the cleaning and upkeep of the home.

The criteria could be a major roadblock. I'm thinking ultra-fundie (preferably ATI), willing to sign a contract with TLC, be on the show, regularly travel to places not of their choosing - possibly on a busload of motion-sick inlaws, attend protests, be "dissected" via the media, be expected to give birth in front of a camera crew, etc. There may also be issues related to being reasonably photogenic, outgoing (or at least willing to speak), and with parents who are willing to play ball. And be someone the kid(s) actually want to marry.

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