Do Fundie Women Believe In Inducing Labor?

[bal maiden]

I feel like all this discussion about women needing to be fully informed by science before making a decision suggests that there is a 'correct' decision for them to make based on that information; this is back to the original point raised about paternalism in medicine, since the implication is that a 'fully informed' woman will make the same 'right' decision as her doctor. And women who don't make that 'right' decision are 'irrational' and 'going against medical advice,' circumstances in which EVIDENCE shows that they get lesser medical care. Which means that the choice is not really a choice at all...

[miffy]

My dad has a scar on his back because of patriarchy. In the 50s doctors wouldn't do a C section without permission from the husband. My grandfather had gone wandering, because men had to wait for hours away from their wives(I guess). By the time grandfather was found, my Nana was in such a sorry state that the doctor had to do the procedure so quickly that he cut the baby too.

[tigerchild]

I've never seen people more entrenched in their positions, nasty and accusatory, than when debating childbirth on the internet. It's a shame because the internet can be a great resource for information and a feeling of community, but if I ever get pregnant I know that I will NEVER discuss anything about it online.

Hey, it could be worse. We could be talking about those selfish bitches who don't breastfeed their children because they're not aware that breast is best and they didn't try hard enough.

[nausicaa]

Hey, it could be worse. We could be talking about those selfish bitches who don't breastfeed their children because they're not aware that breast is best and they didn't try hard enough.

Or we could be takling about a certain food paste made from ground legumes that shall not be named...

[apple1]

Or we could be takling about a certain food paste made from ground legumes that shall not be named...

From an old (and locked) FJ thread:

Can I offer you a peanut butter sandwich, while we discuss vaccinating your newly circumcised, breastfed baby if I take my shoes off before entering your house?

[Mama Mia]

No, they are not all unnecessary, hence why I said no one is against necessary csections. They exist and thank goodness for that. I am also not offended by your inability to give birth. Did I remotely say anything like that? I am offended by doctors giving a third of women major surgery that carries increased risks for mother and baby [compared to vaginal birth] when a lot of them don't really need it, or would not have needed it if the physician had not induced/broke the water/otherwise intervened in the first place. It's about women getting appropriate care and being fully informed and having a say in their birth. I don't really care how a particular woman gives birth but I do care how a doctor views birth, and how a hospital treats birth. Especially since so many women put their full trust in them. They should deserve that trust.

I agree with all of your point, wholeheartedly BUT I think its offensive to say someone can't " give birth" , they may not be giving birth vaginally, but they most certainly giving birth to a baby. I had c-sections with 3 of my 4 children, and the phrasing is really important, IMHO.

To Adrienne, it precisely because it IS major surgery with a huge amount of pain, risk of major complications, impact on future birth choices ( including number of children) and much longer recovery time that unnecessary c-sections should be avoided. I would like to add, in the tmi category, that my one vaginal birth included a 4th degree tear. The recovery time and pain was still a walk in the park compared to the c-sections. Obviously necessary c-sections save many lives, but avoiding unneeded ones would save women a lot of pain. Not to mention that abdominal surgerycan cause pain years later if you develop adhesions, and the more abdominal surgeries you have the greater the risk.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

You're right, when I said can't give birth I meant vaginally. Of course all mothers birth their children.

[NoneandDoneinCali]

In light of the continued debate on patient agency versus medical professional expertise, I want to point out that, though the internet IS an amazing tool in accessing and increasing knowledge of one's own diagnosis and treatment options, it can be a false "equalizer" (though I really like that term). Most professions (especially in the medical and mental health fields) expect a certain amount of educated discretion from a "reasonable" expert in the field - when you work with patients/clients, part of the requirements for the job is taking responsibility and liability for all of the services you recommend or perform. I can only attest to the jargon in mental health, as that is my area of expertise, but "reasonable" is the exact term used - when making a decision, what would another professional of similar education and experience do? It takes continued education, access to research, and discussions with other people in the field to know these things. Medical and therapists/psychologists require years of client interface for licensure. A layperson, regardless of how intelligent and well-read, is not going to have reasonable expertise, because they have not had the opportunity to observe symptoms directly. When I think of what I "knew" after getting my BS in biopsych, versus the research skills I honed in a master's program, and finally the experience I've gained in the field and preparing scholarly articles for publication (I'm prelicense, but I do academic research for faculty working on experimental studies), there is a world of difference. I think we need to remember that our doctors usually have a damned good reason for suggesting things be done a certain way.

With that being said, as patients we have a responsibility to ask our physicians "why?" They should be able to explain our diagnosis and treatment. If they are rushed or we are overwhelmed, they should be able to suggest ways for us to gain further information. We have no obligation to agree with them. I have mental health issues, and have taken medication for it for a looooooong time. I have the academic, observational and anecdotal experience to know what the hell I'm talking about when it comes to my own care in this particular area. I have had horrible care more than once, that I absolutely did not agree with (suggested overmedication, missed diagnosis, etc). Some doctors really won't listen (I had a psychiatrist last year who insisted I take a certain med even after I told him "I already TRIED Lamicatal, for 4 months, and not only did I feel 'slow' but other people noticed a change and thought I was intoxicated. I won't take it again." We mutually "fired" each other). Anyways, if your doctor isn't able or willing to listen and explain, it's time to find another doctor or get a consultation. Ultimately, I think the decision for any treatment should lie with the patient, after they've had an opportunity to explore their options.

[Coconut Flan]

Just a humorous anecdote. I had a foot injury several years ago. I toured through a podiatrist, the orthopedist for the local professional football team, three family physicians, and a world renowned authority in the particular injury. In fact I had the expert's most recent medical article about it in my handbag when I saw him. I didn't self-diagnose until after the fourth doctor and no resolution. The known authority on the subject examined the foot and decided I had yet a different problem from any suggested so far. When I dared ask him if x could possibly be the problem, I got a major lecture talking down to me about self-diagnosis and the hazards therein. His treatment actually made me worse.

Seven physicians in, I was in physical therapy that wasn't helping yet wasn't hurting. A rather strange doctor showed up flirting with my physical therapist. He showed more interest in the foot than anyone I'd seen to that point. I finally wangled his name out of the physical therapist and made an appointment. I presented him with "the foot." He pushed at it, ran a finger down a couple of bones, and then smiled and said would you like it fixed? No pain unlike every other doctor who had examined it. I was like well yeah but what is your idea? He proudly announced what it was and it was my self-diagnosis and that sent me off into hysterical laughter. Then I showed him my stack of articles about that injury. He was dumbfounded at who I'd seen who missed the diagnosis. Five minutes later proper treatment had me nearly pain free after nearly a year of hobbling. Of course, after nearly a year it took several treatments for the foot to finally heal.

[Mama Mia]

Just a humorous anecdote. I had a foot injury several years ago. I toured through a podiatrist, the orthopedist for the local professional football team, three family physicians, and a world renowned authority in the particular injury. In fact I had the expert's most recent medical article about it in my handbag when I saw him. I didn't self-diagnose until after the fourth doctor and no resolution. The known authority on the subject examined the foot and decided I had yet a different problem from any suggested so far. When I dared ask him if x could possibly be the problem, I got a major lecture talking down to me about self-diagnosis and the hazards therein. His treatment actually made me worse.

Seven physicians in, I was in physical therapy that wasn't helping yet wasn't hurting. A rather strange doctor showed up flirting with my physical therapist. He showed more interest in the foot than anyone I'd seen to that point. I finally wangled his name out of the physical therapist and made an appointment. I presented him with "the foot." He pushed at it, ran a finger down a couple of bones, and then smiled and said would you like it fixed? No pain unlike every other doctor who had examined it. I was like well yeah but what is your idea? He proudly announced what it was and it was my self-diagnosis and that sent me off into hysterical laughter. Then I showed him my stack of articles about that injury. He was dumbfounded at who I'd seen who missed the diagnosis. Five minutes later proper treatment had me nearly pain free after nearly a year of hobbling. Of course, after nearly a year it took several treatments for the foot to finally heal.

I think that is the perfect example of what I'm taking about, and, in my experience, this sort of thing ( well, not the doctor flirting with the PT part :lol: ) is far more common than most Doctors seem to think.

*Also, I have to add, that the well intentioned advice to " find a doctor you're comfortable with" is kind of not understanding how a large proportion of the population ( at least in the U.S. ) is dependent upon care from whatever clinic or physicians group they are assigned to. If you are in an HMO or on Medicaid or Medicare you are stuck with whoever is on your plan. If you are near a city you will likely have greater choice, but it can be very limiting if you live in a more rural area. If you have a PPO you have to pay a much larger percentage if the Doctor you want is out of network. Just switching Doctors because you have a lousy one is really not an option for many people.

* eta: this isn't directed at Abigail, just a general comment.

[Coconut Flan]

A few points - I am very fortunate to have excellent insurance that gives me the flexibility to see almost any doctor in the county without needing any kind of referral plus living in a large urban area. All I had to do was realize dr a, b, c, d, etc was not solving my problem and then call the next one on my list for an appointment. This is not ideal, but when every step on the foot hurts it's highly motivating to find a solution. I was about ready to call the med school to see if the foot could become a case study.

The "strange doctor" is still our family doctor. He still is not your average doctor personality. He has missed one diagnosis with me since "the foot." He was being over cautious and thought something was serious when it wasn't. The specialist he sent me to said it was a mistake almost any family practice physician would make because of not having advanced training in reading that particular kind of test result. Not much of an issue. I'd rather see the specialist and not have a problem than not be sent and have a problem.

He proposed to the physical therapist a month or so later and they are still married and she is still doing physical therapy.

Regarding the leaking membranes, I had that with the second pregnancy and the nurse blew me off when I called. I don't know why they don't understand leaks can occur and it isn't always a big gush. I had an appointment in about 18 hours so figured I'd follow the appropriate protocol and rush if need be to the hospital at the first sign of a problem. The doctor kind of pooh poohed it at the appointment so I asked if there was an easy test he could run. (I already knew what he was going to do but was trying to play nice.) He grimaced and said sure if it would relieve my mind. The test turned the right color and he gave me a sharp glance and said you're having that baby by this time tomorrow. Here's what you need to do and watch for.....

[1004srs]

Just a random post - 2 inductions here. Both were over 42 weeks. I was 35 and 37 years old. A couple of stress tests after the 41st week to make sure the baby was doing fine.

However, Ick. Inductions are icky and hard. But, I wouldn't risk my kiddos in order to let the pregnancies go much 42 weeks.