Joseph Maxwell's broken engagement scrubbed from the blog

[Talitha Cumi]

I think he is probably looking for a wife. From reading his smug, pompous blog posts, I get the feeling that he is the most like his father of the bunch. Women are interchangeable for him - I think he is just wants someone pretty to look at that meets all his needs. I get a very cold vibe from Joseph that I don't even get from Christopher. I think he will be a sadistic prick to his wife and children just like daddy.

Liz sure dodged a bullet there.

ETA: I'm a Serial Courter now! :cracking-up:

[Rosie]

According to their own teaching, yes indeed, he is like yucky old used chewing gum.

He is worse than that. He is like dog poop on the sole of a shoe.

[mastercleaner]

Or sewage tainted water....

[nokidsmom]

I wouldn't be surprised if he was looking. There's been enough time since the broken engagement for him to get over it (or at least it can look like it) and for Steveovah to get over the shock.

However, what are his options being in such an insular family? He's not allowed to work for others, thereby eliminating meeting anyone through work. Their church is a nursing home and "congregation" the residents, so nobody eligible there. There's the conferences with people who are supposedly like-minded but those are dwindling and even Steve will still need to assure himself that any potential spouse found there is truly exactly like them. They do everything together on a tight schedule so no room for Joe to get out. It's mentioned on the SAHD thread that their own followers may be questioning the oversheltering so even people more like them might not want their daughters anywhere near a Maxwell boy.

They probably lucked out even finding Liz for Joseph just as there are probably few young women out there like NR Anna. IIRC, the Muncks were fans of the Maxwells which is how Liz and Joe met, but even they smartened up. Who knows what word might have gotten around following the broken engagement. That's not to say the Muncks are bad mouthing them but usually in the wake of such happenings, something usually gets out.

Even his brother had a broken engagement a few years ago and the only brother who looks to have gotten married without any trouble is the one who did so before the whole family disappeared completely down the rabbit hole.

[skankbiscuit]

I get the feeling he was over Liz the moment she dared to break up with him. I think the was looking forward to having sex and playing house, but I don't think he even knew Liz well enough to be that devastated when she wasn't in his life anymore. I think he immediately regrouped and started searching again.

All just hunches, of course. I think Joseph is an unfeeling smug little asshole, if his blog entries offer true insight into his personality.

[nokidsmom]

I get the feeling he was over Liz the moment she dared to break up with him. I think the was looking forward to having sex and playing house, but I don't think he even knew Liz well enough to be that devastated when she wasn't in his life anymore. I think he immediately regrouped and started searching again.

All just hunches, of course. I think Joseph is an unfeeling smug little asshole, if his blog entries offer true insight into his personality.

Agree that they didn't really know each other, met only a few times during a very short engagement so there couldn't be any real emotional connection. He might have been shocked to be so close to marriage/sex/playing house only to have the rug pulled out from under him but it wasn't over Liz breaking his heart. He wasn't close enough to her (or allowed to) to have his heart broken. And I don't underestimate seeing his dad seriously pissed off over the situation (not so much for his son's sake, but because he had no control over what was going down) and buying into the "how dare she?" talk that probably went on.

[TMS]

Interesting that their Bed, Bath & Beyond registry includes twin size, standard size, and queen size sheet sets. How many beds does a newlywed couple need?

[Mela99]

Interesting that their Bed, Bath & Beyond registry includes twin size, standard size, and queen size sheet sets. How many beds does a newlywed couple need?

Which registry is this?

My explanation is all the chaperones that need to come visit...

[bean]

Interesting that their Bed, Bath & Beyond registry includes twin size, standard size, and queen size sheet sets. How many beds does a newlywed couple need?

I think the "standard size" items were just extra pillow cases. I got the impression that they were going to have one queen size bed and one twin.

[MamaJunebug]

Agree that they didn't really know each other, met only a few times during a very short engagement so there couldn't be any real emotional connection. He might have been shocked to be so close to marriage/sex/playing house only to have the rug pulled out from under him but it wasn't over Liz breaking his heart. He wasn't close enough to her (or allowed to) to have his heart broken. And I don't underestimate seeing his dad seriously pissed off over the situation (not so much for his son's sake, but because he had no control over what was going down) and buying into the "how dare she?" talk that probably went on.

As much as I hate to diagnose somebody by their blog posts .... I will!!! In great agreement with sb and nkm, above. I doubt there was any great emotional investment, if any at all. Remember, in the words of Steve & Teri's former guru, Love Is An Action, Not A Feeling. (plbbb!)

There's something in Joseph's face that subtly, no, that *screams* "I'm so cool. Yes I am." Smugness. Arrogance.

Am I right in remembering that someone from FJ might have contacted Papa Munck when Elizabeth's identity was determined over here? And that that may have started the Muncks' closer look into the Maxwell reality?

[skankbiscuit]

I do wonder what happened with John-Marie. Is the theory here that Steve doesn't want his daughters moving to Idaho?

[anjulibai]

I think so. It seems like he'd only be happy with someone that lived close by, but how would they meet anyone that would fit their criteria in their area?

[Jana814]

I think so. It seems like he'd only be happy with someone that lived close by, but how would they meet anyone that would fit their criteria in their area?

I don't think their any men out their that Steve would consider right for his daughters.

[Full enough quiver]

Silly FJers! Purity is for women! Men can't be used pieces of chewing gum. Only women give away pieces of their heart. A manly man would never give a lowly woman a piece of his heart, so Joseph is just fine.

[Mela99]

He's not going to let any of his children have a shot at happiness unless they're right under his nose forever. Even married adults are not to be trusted to toe the party line.

[twin2]

I think so. It seems like he'd only be happy with someone that lived close by, but how would they meet anyone that would fit their criteria in their area?

Even if Steve would be OK with them moving away, I don't think any of the girls would be able to handle it. The Maxwell boys get to *choose* to live right down the road and get their own houses, and with luck the wives move to 123 Maxwell lane to be with them as expected. The Maxwell girls would be expected to go away and live with their husbands. The family is so insular that have spent almost each and every hour of every day with another member of their family. Even if a suitor came along Steve agreed to, when reality hit one of the daughters they would have to go away, they probably become petrified. I doubt any one of them would be able to cope with not seeing their family every day. That could be what happened to the suitors Sarah turned down. That being said, I have no doubt Steve brings this very topic up when the fellows come a calling, as I doubt he could let them go either.

[Jana814]

He's not going to let any of his children have a shot at happiness unless they're right under his nose forever. Even married adults are not to be trusted to toe the party line.

Agree! Why can't be trust his own kids!!

[nokidsmom]

Agree! Why can't be trust his own kids!!

Because no matter how much sheltering he's done, there's still that ebil world out there and who knows what will happen should his kids go out into it. This is where sheltering to this extent falls apart: you (generic you) can shelter in order to protect your kids from the evils of the outside world but no matter how much you shelter, you can't change that outside world. You either let them go and hope for the best or you keep on trying to protect them even when they are adults. That means controlling their lives. Steve chooses to do the latter.

Maybe I am wrong about the above, but I experienced the same sort of protection/controls issues from my parents as a young adult. Despite all the sheltering and control, they could not trust me to go out and make my own decisions, make my own life. Because they were too afraid of what might happen if I did, mainly that I would suddenly chuck all my upbringing in the face of any kind of temptation. And they fully expected me and Mr. No to live down the street when we married so they could keep an eye on things and remain involved in the family.

And I do think there's some truth to the post earlier upthread about Steve's protection of daughters as being due to his experiences in Thailand. My dad was an MP in Europe and I do think his issues with protecting myself and my sisters was due to what he saw on a lot of his patrols.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think Steve and Teri have made an idol of family.

I think fundies isolate their kids so much because they don't trust them, which means that they know that their "training" hasn't worked. Surely they must know (especially Steve, who reads here as he just cant get enough of reading about himself), that the heathens they say are evil aren't all completely separated from their family and are capable of having good relationships with family. That there are siblings, who despite having friends, and interacting with other children at school, in clubs and sports teams, as well as playing with the kids who live near them, still get on well with their siblings. That adults who left home before they were married, went to college, and didn't move right down the street, still come home sometimes and have dinner with their parents, and enjoy their company. That there are kids who are given more freedom that don't end up on drugs, in jail or pregnant at 14, and that the kids who do end up as criminals or addicts are in the minority. That there are people who have been married for 20 years and still in love, but chose their partner for themselves with no input from their parents.

I think they know that if their children learn these things, they will ruin their relationship with them as the kid will be mad at them for lying about how sinful the world is. There are so many ex fundies who don't have good relationships with their parents because they feed cheated out of a childhood, lied to, abused...they don't want theirs to be the same, and instead of admitting that they lied and apologising, they keep justifying their actions and keeping up the lies.

[Jana814]

I think they know that if their children learn these things, they will ruin their relationship with them as the kid will be mad at them for lying about how sinful the world is. There are so many ex fundies who don't have good relationships with their parents because they feed cheated out of a childhood, lied to, abused...they don't want theirs to be the same, and instead of admitting that they lied and apologising, they keep justifying their actions and keeping up the lies.

Very true!! Especially w/ Steve and Teri. For some reason they think that even though they raised the kids how they did if the go out into the "world" their children will forget everything they were taught.

[SPHASH]

Because no matter how much sheltering he's done, there's still that ebil world out there and who knows what will happen should his kids go out into it. This is where sheltering to this extent falls apart: you (generic you) can shelter in order to protect your kids from the evils of the outside world but no matter how much you shelter, you can't change that outside world. You either let them go and hope for the best or you keep on trying to protect them even when they are adults. That means controlling their lives. Steve chooses to do the latter.

Maybe I am wrong about the above, but I experienced the same sort of protection/controls issues from my parents as a young adult. Despite all the sheltering and control, they could not trust me to go out and make my own decisions, make my own life. Because they were too afraid of what might happen if I did, mainly that I would suddenly chuck all my upbringing in the face of any kind of temptation. And they fully expected me and Mr. No to live down the street when we married so they could keep an eye on things and remain involved in the family.

And I do think there's some truth to the post earlier upthread about Steve's protection of daughters as being due to his experiences in Thailand. My dad was an MP in Europe and I do think his issues with protecting myself and my sisters was due to what he saw on a lot of his patrols.

My parents tried to shelter me and I still resent them for it. My dad married his first wife when they were 18 cuz he had to. The ex-wife had mental issues, kidnapped my brothers a few times. My dad had to hire a private detective to get them back. Then my two half brothers did a lot of stuff that embarassed my dad, like underage drinking and reckless driving. My oldest half brother had to join the Army or go to jail for a DUI. While overseas he met a local girl who liked to hang around the base and pick up men, and may or may not have knocked her up. We will never know because the baby died, she got around, and had credibility issues. Half-brother ended up AWOL, was discharged and came home in worse shape than he was pre-Army. He ended up killing himself. My parents decided because of my dad and my half-brothers screw ups they would be control freaks to me and my full siblings. My dad didn't want us to move out of the area, didn't want us to socialize with our friends, go to school functions like homecoming etc cuz he was afraid we would get in trouble. And to be honest sex and booze was the last thing on my 16 year old mind. Luckily the three of us ignored him and ran our own lives, no matter how much guilt tripping he did.

[anjulibai]

So I checked their upcoming conferences schedule, and they only have one scheduled conference so far this year - for mid-July, in Colorado, which is I think where they stay during what some would call a vacation. Nothing for this spring, though it does mention they are planning a fall trip and "other trips".

I think enough people have seen past the veneer, looked at Joseph's failed engagement, his not living in the house he bought and fixed up, and the kids have no lives outside of the home. They are going to start losing revenue streams very quickly, I think.

BTW, I wonder what happened to that resource for young men they were working on. It was supposed to be about the types of careers and training young men could pursue so that they would be able to support families on one income.

[mausi]

So I checked their upcoming conferences schedule, and they only have one scheduled conference so far this year - for mid-July, in Colorado, which is I think where they stay during what some would call a vacation. Nothing for this spring, though it does mention they are planning a fall trip and "other trips".

I think enough people have seen past the veneer, looked at Joseph's failed engagement, his not living in the house he bought and fixed up, and the kids have no lives outside of the home. They are going to start losing revenue streams very quickly, I think.

BTW, I wonder what happened to that resource for young men they were working on. It was supposed to be about the types of careers and training young men could pursue so that they would be able to support families on one income.

They also do not seem to ever update or change their whole schtick, so there is little- to no incentive to invite them someplace more than once. Or even back to the same area.

[nokidsmom]

I think Steve and Teri have made an idol of family.

I think fundies isolate their kids so much because they don't trust them, which means that they know that their "training" hasn't worked. Surely they must know (especially Steve, who reads here as he just cant get enough of reading about himself), that the heathens they say are evil aren't all completely separated from their family and are capable of having good relationships with family. That there are siblings, who despite having friends, and interacting with other children at school, in clubs and sports teams, as well as playing with the kids who live near them, still get on well with their siblings. That adults who left home before they were married, went to college, and didn't move right down the street, still come home sometimes and have dinner with their parents, and enjoy their company. That there are kids who are given more freedom that don't end up on drugs, in jail or pregnant at 14, and that the kids who do end up as criminals or addicts are in the minority. That there are people who have been married for 20 years and still in love, but chose their partner for themselves with no input from their parents.

I think they know that if their children learn these things, they will ruin their relationship with them as the kid will be mad at them for lying about how sinful the world is. There are so many ex fundies who don't have good relationships with their parents because they feed cheated out of a childhood, lied to, abused...they don't want theirs to be the same, and instead of admitting that they lied and apologising, they keep justifying their actions and keeping up the lies.

Agree that deep down a lot of fundie parents know that the world isn't as bad as they like to present to their kids as justification for sheltering. Especially fundies like Steve who lived a "normal" life before and while there was some turmoil in his early life such as the parents' divorce, I don't get the read that life before was really horrible. Hard to know.

I agree that that some parents may be fearful of what will happen if their kids find out the the world isn't so bad, but I also think some are so caught up in their control that it doesn't occur to them. Controlling and sheltering the kids might feed / meet other need(s) in the parent that override anything else. In my case, it was also the need to be needed and overidentification with the parental role. They were convinced that anyone or any life on the "outside" was up to question, that nothing could be as "good" somehow. Over time, I did find that a lot of it was BS, not that they were lying to me per se, but that their view was just a tad off the mark compared to my experience.

[nokidsmom]

My parents tried to shelter me and I still resent them for it. My dad married his first wife when they were 18 cuz he had to. The ex-wife had mental issues, kidnapped my brothers a few times. My dad had to hire a private detective to get them back. Then my two half brothers did a lot of stuff that embarassed my dad, like underage drinking and reckless driving. My oldest half brother had to join the Army or go to jail for a DUI. While overseas he met a local girl who liked to hang around the base and pick up men, and may or may not have knocked her up. We will never know because the baby died, she got around, and had credibility issues. Half-brother ended up AWOL, was discharged and came home in worse shape than he was pre-Army. He ended up killing himself. My parents decided because of my dad and my half-brothers screw ups they would be control freaks to me and my full siblings. My dad didn't want us to move out of the area, didn't want us to socialize with our friends, go to school functions like homecoming etc cuz he was afraid we would get in trouble. And to be honest sex and booze was the last thing on my 16 year old mind. Luckily the three of us ignored him and ran our own lives, no matter how much guilt tripping he did.

@ SPHASH: Not to get OT, but in my case, as far as I know, neither parent had gotten into any trouble early in life. Maybe my dad for some minor teenage stuff, but there's nothing to justify sheltering like your folks did. Not sure what really prompted it. Both parents were big into church, it's where they met and everything was church, church, church. And funny, that neither my grandparents were as strict as my folks were. We were allowed to have friends, but parents would decide to intervene in the friendships if they decided the friends were taking "advantage" of us, though they never explained what that was. I am guessing just hanging around too much or something. I was allowed to date but only if the guy met my parents and met their approval. Fortunately a lot of the guys were of a more conservative bent and were OK with it but had a couple that were creeped out. Incidentally the Catholic boyfriends that my parents were so afraid of were more OK with meeting my folks than the more approved Protestant ones. The reason for why my folks were afraid of Catholic boyfriends? Because I might marry one and decide to raise my kids Catholic and that was something they didn't want. Even at 17, when all I cared about was just dating, I thought that was messed up.

Oh well, don't want to threadjack but was interested in reading about your background. And back to the regularly scheduled programming....