Pro Life reaching Europe?/Spain wants to ban Abortion MERGED

[Marianne]

The Minister Gallardon introduced this law-project sorrounded by women. He was so sarcastic that he even said it was a law for protecting women rights. I almost puked!

And yes, conservative goverment has cut the financial support for disabled people. So now, not only they want disabled babies to be born, but also they are condemning these babies to live in poverty.

But in Spain everybody says that this law will never succeed. Maybe goverment will just reduce the abortion rights (now it's absolutely free before 22 weeks). And next left-wing government will make abortion free again.

Is not a way for the PP to look away from all these stories of corruption and at the same time flirting with Catholic voters ? Does the royal family say something about this ?

[Confused_by_religion]

This seems to be a popular trend amongst humanity in general, *including* the US. I believe it tends to start with blaming "those people" for things like job losses, ect. The need for the "good people" (traditionally white, or a subset of the same) to have babies for the sake of continuing the culture. The need for strict, understandable control because people are frightened of change. This is overgeneralizing, but damn if you don't see that sort of thing cropping up all the time when there's massive waves of conservativism/state control of very personal aspects of people's lives.

Haven't there always been states in Europe that have (in some cases infamously) banned abortion, though? I'm thinking Romania, which I don't think was influenced at all by craziness in the US. Or are we talking only specifically about Western Europe here? I think as racism/fearmongering is on the rise, unfortunately the US religious version of it gives a new "justification" that might be appealing to people who already feel that way in Europe, perhaps. It's attractive if you're fear-driven and looking for someone to blame for the threatening changes you see, and want a very "simple" well here's how you fix it plan.

The craziness gives me a depression. Apparently, homo sapiens has an unlimited capacity of stupidity. Let's give up our liberties because external threats go away when we limit our personal freedom. :angry-banghead: :cray-cray:

I believe that a certain kind of European politicians have been trying to learn from American politicians, where it has always been much more customary to bring up god in political speeches (God bless America and all that). They are timidly trying on the fake godfearingness and conservative family values here, hoping it will add glamour or entice voters.

(As to Romania - like most Western Europeans, I think I tend to forget Eastern Europe a bit. My bad. I'd never have considered Romania. Yes, they banned abortion in order to increase population, and, guess what, it didn't work. And they acted from purely demographic and non-religious reasons. I don't want to make this an anti-American rant, either. The example of Romania proves to me that governments anywhere tend to push their ideology on their people and get more pushy and restrictive the more thy feel threatened. In Germany, for instance, there is this new civil religion called "Demographic Change We're All Going To Die Argh Until You Evil Women Stop Your Birth Strike". I've heard from several sources that ob/gyns are starting to obnoxiously hint at their patients that now would be a good time to have a baby, don't you think? And consider all those poor eggs wasting away, time's running out and so on. I suppose they've all had letters from the government fearmongering away....I bet they would make having kids compulsory if they found a way to do it.)

[Diana]

Is not a way for the PP to look away from all these stories of corruption and at the same time flirting with Catholic voters ? Does the royal family say something about this ?

the royal family? our country is a parliamentary monarchy, the king is only there for representation but has no voice or vote, he actually cant give his opinions has to be neutral.

About the law i dont think its gonna happen, everybody that i know is against it, even some conservative people that are mostly pro life, say that they dont agree with the banning of abortion in the cases of babies that are going to be really disabled for life.

I have heard on tv some people saying that this law is necesary because right now the population of spain is decreasing, and that with the economic crisis the inmigrants leaving, and spanish people emigrating, in some years isnt going to be enought people to mantain the pensions and all that. But this is not the main concern right now for people given that the current population cant find jobs, so for my this law is only something to distract people form the real problems we have: corruption scandals in the pp, unemployment rate...

[Cran]

Hopefully you're right and the law will never be passed.

But what I'd like to know: How did it start out in the US, all those laws "protecting" women and their "unborn child"? The majority still doesn't want all those laws that take away rights from women, especially pregnant women, but they are still passed (but fortunately get also struck down again to some degree). I'm afraid of a slippery slope: By bringing the topic up again and again, and spewing out the same arguments out again and again might garner it an audience, and more and more people might start to think positively about their goals.

There's been a lot of news that, put, together, paint, imho a bleak picture of European tolerance and culture: The new proposed anti-abortion law in Spain, the new family law in France that would have given non-traditional families more rights delayed and likely never to see the light of day, and also the rising popularity of "Manifs pour Touts" (or how it is spelled), the German protest against education in schools about LGBT-issues, the blatant racism that surfaced in several countries in the wake of unhindered travel within the EU for Romanians, forced caesareans for women with bipolar disorder in the UK, and I don't want to think about what else their might be.

Concerning Hungary, I think this country has stopped, in many ways, being a true democracy, and I'm ashamed the other countries in the E do not speak out against it. Seems we haven't learned as much fro history as we like to pretend. I know it's a crass comparison, but before the start of WWII, appeasement was very popular in politics: Do not interfere, keep the peace, everything will work out... yeah, sure it did!

Buy an island and found a feminist colony with me, ladies? Gents are invited, too, if they subscribe to the radical notion that women are people, too.

[Arete]

Since you are allowing men, I'll go in on island shares. :D

The idea of living in all female community has never appealed to me, as I only play in one league of the Mattress Olympics. ;)

Filtering out misogynists however, is doing the Lord's Work and worth extra money.

[Marianne]

( Manif pour Tous ;) You were close !)

the new family law in France that would have given non-traditional families more rights delayed and likely never to see the light of day

What law do you speak ?

The Manif pour Tous is highly publicized while in terms of number, it means nothing. In 2013, they gathered 600,000 pesonnes ... From all over France ! In a BIG TRUE event TRUE, there is 600,000 people from Paris only. We recall events against the law for the retreats, there were 2 million people in the street, four million in total striking ! It is an event. France is depleted, social rights are getting worse. Equality in France no longer exists.

So what did the people do ? he seeks guilty (?). Roma (Gypsy - I'm never sure of the correct term). Muslims. The poor. The rich. The solution for more tolerance, etc. ... is resolving the economic crisis. Provide work. Health, education and justice completly free. And then, we can speak to the people about tolérance. But now ? No. They will not listen.

(and the other solution it's reform the media, who prevers to speak about Manifs pour Tous - giving to them existence - and the sexual life of the president - seriously, who cares about this ?! instead of speaking about poverty, racisme and discriminations. Who prefers to say that the responsible for the crisis are "fraudsters", the "assisted" when we know that it is the banks and the rich, tax evasion, etc... Who, every six month, search a new victim : last years, it was Roms, this year, the poor, and every year, Islam.)

(My city is an island of tolerance, come here ♥)