Sacred Grooming - Gothard

[formergothardite]

I haven't seen a thread about this yet, but has anyone else read the story on Recovering Grace about one of Gothard's secretaries? It is in six parts and it long but worth a read. Basically he gets a sheltered young woman and slowly starts grooming her to be submissive to his sexual advances. Being a sheltered ATI student she didn't realize that the things he was doing was wrong even though they made her feel uncomfortable.

 

In the comments he still gets supporters(Alfred in particular sees nothing wrong with what he did). I think he could rape someone and people would defend him. She is not the only young woman he has done this to. I don't think he really had intentions of marrying her, I think he gets sexual satisfaction out of doing this to young women under his leadership.

 

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/01/ ... -part-one/

[ILoveJellybeans]

I haven't seen this, although I have read all the other articles. I cant believe there are people who still defend him.

Just from the thread title, I knew this would be a Gothard thread.

[DomWackTroll]

I haven't seen this, although I have read all the other articles. I cant believe there are people who still defend him.

Just from the thread title, I knew this would be a Gothard thread.

I was hoping it would be a blog post about pube trimming from Stacy McDonald, but alas...

[anjulibai]

TLDR, but this sort of things makes me wonder why he didn't marry. He's obviously attracted to women. A wife and children would nothing but improve his image. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[PopRox]

I was hoping it would be a blog post about pube trimming from Stacy McDonald, but alas...

I was almost disappointed when it wasn't.

[formergothardite]

Here are some of Alfred's comments. I'm fairly sure he still has his kids enrolled with ATI and he refuses to see anything wrong with any actions of Gothard. In the past he has claimed that Gothard is so innocent that he doesn't realize that the things he do are sexual. :roll: I can't even think of a way to reply to the man, his comments just make me want to smash something.

Oh, humor me. I know child molesters groom for sexual encounters . . . I know that adulterers groom to seduce and . . . get sex. I don't understand what Meg (or whoever invented the title) is alleging he was "grooming" her for. Almost sounded like marriage.

So . . . grooming for footsie? Seems like he was aiming for marriage . . . overtly. When I was aiming for marriage I, well, didn't play footsie, but held hands, maybe a kiss . . . I guess I am from a different generation.

Which declared standards are you focusing on at the moment? I have never heard him address an age difference, other than in a positive light. Jacob was 70 when he fell in love with Rachel. About interactions with secretaries? Maybe he never should have had young female secretaries . . . and, as you know, that practice came to an end.

Just a note, but the board of directors has told him for years to stop having young female secretaries, but he only in the last couple of years actually did and I am pretty sure he still keeps young girls around him, he just doesn't say they are his secretary.

Knowing how hard it is to be rational when it comes to matters of love, I am just wondering at what point you start to feel sorry for him. I know that Mr. G is not "all together" in private, at least in terms of the standards he promotes. The standards pull him and others forward, sometimes way out of balance, but he really is human. He has never figured out "the way of a man with a maid" . . . maybe few of us do, given the amount of "fornication" that goes on among the brightest and the best.

:angry-banghead: :pull-hair:

These are all from the comment section on this part.

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/01/ ... -six/#more

I think he didn't ever marry because he likes the thrill of seeing how far he can get sexually with very sheltered young women. He doesn't actually want to settle down and grow old with someone. If he married someone they would grow older and they would stop being in awe of him. Plus, his followers can explain away him rubbing his foot up a young woman's skirt when he is single, but it would be harder if he was married and you know that he would continue doing this with young secretaries if he got married. He has been doing this since the 80's, he isn't going to stop.

[RachelB]

+1, formergothardite. The current situation works for him. He has plausible deniability and people who will insist on his innocence in the most improbable situations, and he doesn't risk her developing into a woman who will develop critical thinking skills and boundaries. Blech.

[mockingbird]

Gothard's whole "I don't want you to lose me"/"I don't want them to keep me from you" (in the last installment) is telling of abuse/"grooming" IMO. Usually when you care deeply about someone you would say "I don't want to lose you"/"I don't want them to keep you away from me" - i.e. talk about how much you love them. He's acting like he's saying that, but it's really wrapped up in a constant reminder to her of how important he is in her life and how much she needs him.

(spoiler for the ending of the story, in case people are reading through)

I found it super interesting that she learned he tried to marry her (in a desperate attempt to keep her in the country?) and the Board of Directors wouldn't allow it. She really caught a lucky break that she got deported, ironically enough. Especially that one of the officers seemed to know there was more to ATI/Gothard than meets the eye... what a fortunate coincidence.

[formergothardite]

If you read the comments there have been other secretaries that he has said he wanted to marry and the board said no. I don't think he actually wants to marry any of them and I think he only asks because he knows that the board will tell him no. I think this is all about power and appearance. He wants to appear that he was "in love" so that people like Alfred will defend him and can point to the fact that he wanted to marry her but that big, bad, mean board of directors just wouldn't let him. So he gets to keep up the appearance of being this innocent, love struck man that they feel sorry for, all while being able to use his power to groom sheltered young ladies. He never loved any of these women, he only used them.

I also don't believe the whole "never been kissed" story he told. Wonder how many secretaries he has hugged and told that to while almost kissing them?

[ILoveJellybeans]

I bet he has kissed a woman. Its hard to believe he hasn't.

He certainly has given away pieces of his heart though-all of the hugging, rubbing their backs, touching their feet, hands on their legs...that's if he has one. You have to have a heart to give away pieces of it.

[Arete]

Of all the despicable things the higher profile ATI families do for status and to curry favor, allowing Gothard access to their innocent, sheltered daughters is probably the most vile. They know, the have to know he is a disgusting perv, and they still compete to have a daughter in one of these internships.

How could the likes of JB Duggar and Gil Bates, who did not grow up with extreme sheltering, not recognize Gothard for the predator he is?

[samurai_sarah]

Of all the despicable things the higher profile ATI families do for status and to curry favor, allowing Gothard access to their innocent, sheltered daughters is probably the most vile. They know, the have to know he is a disgusting perv, and they still compete to have a daughter in one of these internships.

How could the likes of JB Duggar and Gil Bates, who did not grow up with extreme sheltering, not recognize Gothard for the predator he is?

I know it's probably mainly a rhetorical question, but I suspect they don't want to see it, because they're in too deep and so invested. If, say, JB Duggar opened his eyes for a moment and recognized that Gothard is a predator, he might find himself wondering what else is wrong with the man. That might lead to doubt and his whole world-view, plus social circle, breaking down. Most of us, I imagine, aren't particularly afraid of changing our opinions, although admitting to having been spectacularly wrong might be painful at times. But in the secular world that rarely means losing your entire social circle. That might be a powerful incentive to keep their eyes shut to what's going on. *armchair psychology end*

Other than that I agree that it's disgusting that they put "their" young women in the way of a predator, and if my armchair psychology is close to the truth, I find it even more disgusting. I was going to say that it's revolting that they would wilfully endanger women to prove how right they are, but then I remembered who we're talking about and that they don't care about endangering women. :pull-hair:

edited to edit, because English is not my first language

[Arete]

Usually these patriarchal douchelords think nothing of the feelings or safety of women they are not related to, but they are often extremely protective of their daughters' "innocence". I have to say that the dominionist patriarchs are pretty exceptional in my view in their callous disregard of the health and safety of their OWN women.

[FloraKitty35]

I know it's probably mainly a rhetorical question, but I suspect they don't want to see it, because they're in too deep and so invested. If, say, JB Duggar opened his eyes for a moment and recognized that Gothard is a predator, he might find himself wondering what else is wrong with the man. That might lead to doubt and his whole world-view, plus social circle, breaking down. Most of us, I imagine, aren't particularly afraid of changing our opinions, although admitting to having been spectacularly wrong might be painful at times. But in the secular world that rarely means losing your entire social circle. That might be a powerful incentive to keep their eyes shut to what's going on. *armchair psychology end*

Other than that I agree that it's disgusting that they put their young women in the way of a predator, and if my armchair psychology is close to the truth, I find it even more disgusting. I was going to say that it's revolting that they would wilfully endanger women to prove how right they are, but then I remembered who we're talking about and that they don't care about endangering women. :pull-hair:

Dim Bulb, Gil, Smuggar, or Gayvy Davy wouldn't like it if they opened their eyes to what someone like Gothard really is. It is too painful for them, because they have drunk the Kool Aid and for them to spit out would take more courage than any of them have.

[mockingbird]

If you read the comments there have been other secretaries that he has said he wanted to marry and the board said no. I don't think he actually wants to marry any of them and I think he only asks because he knows that the board will tell him no. I think this is all about power and appearance. He wants to appear that he was "in love" so that people like Alfred will defend him and can point to the fact that he wanted to marry her but that big, bad, mean board of directors just wouldn't let him. So he gets to keep up the appearance of being this innocent, love struck man that they feel sorry for, all while being able to use his power to groom sheltered young ladies. He never loved any of these women, he only used them.

I also don't believe the whole "never been kissed" story he told. Wonder how many secretaries he has hugged and told that to while almost kissing them?

I haven't had time to read the comments yet, but if he's tried to marry multiple women your theory makes sense to me.

Any reason why the board wouldn't let him marry in general? Or do you think it's because these were young women?

[formergothardite]

I haven't had time to read the comments yet, but if he's tried to marry multiple women your theory makes sense to me.

Any reason why the board wouldn't let him marry in general? Or do you think it's because these were young women?

I think it had to do with them being 30-40 years younger than him. The board(and Gothard) knows that having an elderly leader married to a very young woman who was his secretary is going to turn off many people from joining ATI or even going to the seminars. The less devoted members might even begin to question him. New people for sure are going to be giving the side eye to attending a seminar where the leader married a woman young enough to be his granddaughter. He hand picks the board anyway so it isn't like they are going to tell him to do something he isn't already planning to do. He knew they would tell him no because that is exactly what he wanted them to do.

[EmiGirl]

My question is why he has to ask the board.

[uber frau]

He doesn't. Like formergothardite has speculated, I believe it's a convenient out. He doesn't want to marry any of those young women, he just wants the satisfaction of playing mind games. When he tires of his plaything, he can blame the big bully that is the board of directors (which will unevitably recommend his 'love interest' return home), and then he's free to find another woman to toy with.

[JaChelle Sugar]

I was hoping it would be a blog post about pube trimming from Stacy McDonald, but alas...

Yeah, I thought it would be like, 'tend to your 'down there' *blush*wink*blush* because it pleases your husband and so it glorifies God'.

I wish it WAS something stupid like that.

[formergothardite]

Gil Bates HAS to know about all this. There are stories of this still going on in the last year with very sheltered young women who he brings to the training centers. People seem to think that the Bates are better than the Duggars, but they sent their daughters off on a Mission trip with Gothard and there is no way they didn't know about all these accusations. It shows how much they worship Gothard that they can just turn a blind eye.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Gil Bates HAS to know about all this. There are stories of this still going on in the last year with very sheltered young women who he brings to the training centers. People seem to think that the Bates are better than the Duggars, but they sent their daughters off on a Mission trip with Gothard and there is no way they didn't know about all these accusations. It shows how much they worship Gothard that they can just turn a blind eye.

Yeah, come on Gil, Erin is a pretty blonde just like he is said to like most. Don't put your daughters in a position to be victimised by this perv.

[mrs]

It looks like Recovering Grace has opened the flood gates. I would encourage anyone interested to read today's post: http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/02/ ... ification/ .

Recovering Grace writes,

Since the time that Lizzie’s story was published, we have identified by name at least 34 different women who have experienced the same harassment, and we have sufficient evidence to believe that there are dozens more. We have had men and women who served in IBLP leadership confirm that the allegations are true, although they felt (and often were) powerless to do anything at the time. In fact, we have learned that the IBLP Board of Directors has on more than one occasion addressed this behavior with Bill Gothard, but to no lasting avail.

It seems they have been in contact with Gothard/ATI and have consulted with lawyers from RG's team. They will also be publishing another story this week.

I will be praying for everyone involved.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I hope this gets the recognition it deserves. Justice needs to be done for the dozens of women and young girls who should never have found out what Gothard's hand feels like on their leg, or been on the receiving end of hugs and compliments that feel wrong, or felt his feet play with theirs, or were made to feel special like Meg did and actually turned out to be just one of many others he used for sexual satisfaction.

Gothard shouldn't be allowed to keep on doing this, if ATI was a normal company where the owner was sexually harassing his secretary and many other women including underage girls, they would be shut down immediately and he would be in jail.

Doug Phillips only did it with one woman that we know of, and he was bought down, it should be the same for Gothard. Wouldn't that just be so awesome, to have both of their skeletons pulled out of their closets and publically examined within just a few months of eachother. What would our fundies do? With no VF, I bet a lot of them went straight to ATI, but having them both exposed, I bet theres going to be a lot of disillusioned people.

I hope the dirty old perv finally gets consequences for his actions.

[uber frau]

I wonder what would have happened if Doug Phillips hadn't been married. And if he had been more subtle (ie. Hadn't let himself act in a way that was so overtly sexual). I think he would have kept right on at it.

Besides, apart from being sure that the official story is greatly lacking, we don't actually know what took him down it what else he got up to. I'm still fairly convinced there was some fairly unethical shenaniggans going in with the interns. How much of it was sexual? I don't know, but I'm sure there was at very least some powergames with a psycho-sexual element. He managed to get a fresh crop of interns every year. Who says he *didn't* get away with this sort of behaviour for a long while?

But yea, I really, really hope he comes crashing down over this. Reading the comments of Alfred on the RG website however, I suspect absolutely *nothing* will convince how True Believers.

[mastercleaner]

I hope they expose Gothard as the perv he is! I hope it ruins ATI!!