Josh's new buddy wants prayer and creationisim in schools

[doggie]

I think this is the same idiot that wants to send gays out of the US or some such crap. why is it the people who want to force some christian version of character onto kids have little of their own?

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/0 ... 10367.html

 

 

dennis kruse lord's prayer

 

A Republican state senator wants Indiana's public school students to begin each day by reciting the Lord's Prayer.

 

Dennis Kruse, chair of the state Senate's education committee, has introduced Senate Bill 23, which would allow Indiana's school districts to require recitation of the prayer, "In order that each student recognize the importance of spiritual development in establishing character and becoming a good citizen."

 

The proposal does offer exemptions, including a provision allowing students and parents to opt out of a school's mandatory prayer. Still, experts and the Indiana Senate legal committee believe the bill to be unconstitutional, the Indianapolis Star reports.

 

A similar law exists in Florida, but no schools there adopted the measure for fear of hefty legal fees associated with likely litigation, Andrew Seidel, a staff attorney for the Freedom From Religion Foundation, told the Star. A lawsuit against a prayer banner in a Rhode Island school last year, for example, cost the school more than $173,000 in attorney's fees.

 

Seidel told the Star he worried requiring prayer in schools would lead to bullying of students who chose not to participate. Still, the Indiana proposal comes as more atheist clubs spring up in high schools across the country, even in more religious states like North Carolina, Alabama, Louisiana and Texas.

 

Kruse's history in Indiana education has been filled with controversy. He sponsored a bill last year to allow schools to teach creationism that failed in the state House. He tried again in December by announcing plans to introduce new legislation for what he called "truth in education," an effort that would allow teachers to question scientific principles, such as evolution.

[GeoBQn]

I knew a girl in college who was made to say the Lord's Prayer every day at her public school in Kentucky, even though she was Jewish. (This was during the 1990's.) What is she like today? Still actively Jewish. Making Christian school prayers mandatory is not going to make anybody Christian, so why bother trying and having to spend money on fighting lawsuits?

[doggie]

Because forcing others into the same beliefs is what josh was made for and raised for. He does not have much fo any other use in life.

[sparkles]

School prayer was still allowed when I was in grade school. Even though I came from a VERY non-religious Jewish family, I was well aware that these prayers were exclusionary, and I still have memories of how uncomfortable it made me and my non-Christian friends to have to hear them, and in some cases, recite them (you weren't allowed to lead assembly or the class pledge unless you also led the prayer). So my response to efforts to bringing it back is a loud, resounding FUCK NO!

I have no objection to a moment of silence like we had in high school. You could pray SILENTLY if you were so inclined, but you could also check your homework, pass notes to your friends or otherwise occupy yourself until that moment was over. No pressure, no targeting, no exclusion. Anything more steps WAY over the line.

[docmom]

I said the Lord's prayer every day in primary school in Scotland. As I had absolutely no idea what I was saying (the words were pretty meaningless to me as a child) I can't say it had a huge impact on my subsequent moral development. Nowadays I'm agnostic at best so it didn't positively affect my growth as a Christian either.

Interestingly it wasn't the abstaining Hindus in my class who got teased about their religion. It was the non- Church of Scotland Jehovah's Witness...

[GeoBQn]

I'm not a fan of a mandatory moment of silence because every attempt to legislate it so far has been a backdoor attempt to bring back school prayer. My teacher friends and family don't like it because it takes time away from an already overflowing schedule of things they are supposed to do during the school day.

[Ralar]

I knew a girl in college who was made to say the Lord's Prayer every day at her public school in Kentucky, even though she was Jewish. (This was during the 1990's.) What is she like today? Still actively Jewish. Making Christian school prayers mandatory is not going to make anybody Christian, so why bother trying and having to spend money on fighting lawsuits?

:wtf:

[doggie]

they want far more then prayer in school they want all schools to become christian schools and teach according to the bible. They are just starting small. Love people with so little education want to tell others what to learn.

[Eater of Worlds]

I think having a "moment of silence" is a way for the religious right to sneak in prayer without saying prayers, because adding the moment of silence has always been in response to adding school prayers, in my experience. So instead of a school prayer they give that time. in my junior and senior HS we had 5 extra minutes tacked on to the first class of the day, but that was just for daily announcements over the PA that were reminders of things students had to attend or extracurricular type stuff (seniors! graduation practice is at this time. School dance tickets are on sale starting tomorrow!) and if the announcements ended early, you got a few minutes to goof around and do whatever before class. However, that was set up long before the "let's bring back school prayer to public schools" fight got started and it never included a "moment of silence where we want you to say prayers but we're stuck because we legally can't make you"

[sparkles]

I grew up in suburban Long Island, New York--not exactly a hotbed of uber-religiousity. Aside from the mandated prayer early in my school career, it was never a big issue. Once it was deemed unconstitutional, it disappeared and that was that. Nothing was put in its place in grade school and I have no recollection of what was done in junior high. The moment of silence I remember in high school was just that, a moment after the pledge (that I never said--I've got major issues with the whole thing) and right before the announcements. It was very innocuous and I never remember any kind of kerfuffle over it or any agenda behind it. Both would have been very apparent, given the very politicized time frame (late 60s/early 70s). So I'll amend my statement about not having an issue with the moment of silence based on my personal experience. I'm sure in other areas of the country it's VERY different and that yes, it is a back-door way of allowing school sanctioned/mandated prayer.

[dpndetfarm]

How about they just show this every morning:

l_yBhqoOFqU

Do these right wingnuts think if they just keep this up long enough the rest of us will finally say "oh, whatever. Go for it."

I don't think so.

[Emme]

Fuck that. I won't even say "under god" in the pledge.

[shrewlu]

Fuck that. I won't even say "under god" in the pledge.

Me neither. My 13yo son doesn't say that or any part of the pledge. He just stands there silently.

[Joan of Snarc]

Pretty sure ALL of Josh's buddies want prayer and creationism in school. It would be news if Smuggar ever had a liberal secular friend.

:roll:

[lawlifelgbt]

Fuck that. I won't even say "under god" in the pledge.

\

I don't say or stand for it, because I don't think we have "justice for all." Until I don't have to worry if my marriage will be recognized and I can adopt our future kids in every state, there's an injustice; and that's just from my perspective.

Not to mention the issue of income inequality. Justice is economic and reproductive too- lack of abortion and contraception access keeps women poor.

[dairyfreelife]

Except there's this pesky little thing in their way called the constitution. I know, I know. That whole freedom of religion and all that stuff. No bearing arms, that's required, but that little bit about freedom of religion can just be tossed out. They do it all with the Bible after all, why not the constitutions of their country and state as well...

Section 3. Freedom of religious opinions

Section 3. No law shall, in any case whatever, control the free exercise and enjoyment of religious opinions, or interfere with the rights of conscience.

Section 4. Freedom of religion

Section 4. No preference shall be given, by law, to any creed, religious society, or mode of worship; and no person shall be compelled to attend, erect, or support, any place of worship, or to maintain any ministry, against his consent.

Thought I would mention Indiana's Constitution here just in case they forgot what it said and all. Same with the US Constitution as well. Just in case.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

[JesusFightClub]

I said the Lord's prayer every day in primary school in Scotland. As I had absolutely no idea what I was saying (the words were pretty meaningless to me as a child) I can't say it had a huge impact on my subsequent moral development. Nowadays I'm agnostic at best so it didn't positively affect my growth as a Christian either.

Yeah, so did I. And it worked so brilliantly that at the end of my school career I became an atheist (and subsequently a Marxist) :lol:

TBH just reciting a prayer is just, well, like reciting anything. It actually devalues what you are saying and reduces it to a mumble you get through just so you don't get in trouble.

[constantgardener]

Yeah, so did I. And it worked so brilliantly that at the end of my school career I became an atheist (and subsequently a Marxist) :lol:

TBH just reciting a prayer is just, well, like reciting anything. It actually devalues what you are saying and reduces it to a mumble you get through just so you don't get in trouble.

Me too, in England. I made a big point of not bowing my head in when I was going through my rebellious stage in secondary school. I feel very strongly that learning about different religions should be part of the school curriculum but that practising a religion should not.

[salex]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/0 ... 10367.html

dennis kruse lord's prayer

A Republican state senator wants Indiana's public school students to begin each day by reciting the Lord's Prayer.

Dennis Kruse, chair of the state Senate's education committee, has introduced Senate Bill 23, which would allow Indiana's school districts to require recitation of the prayer, "In order that each student recognize the importance of spiritual development in establishing character and becoming a good citizen."

Matthew 6:7

King James Version (KJV)

7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

[bucherwurm]

I am fine with a moment of silence at the beginning of the day. There are many religions that can make use of it.

Do American schools sing the national anthem at the beginning of the day or just say the pledge of allegiance? At my schools we always sang the national anthem (or it would at least play through the p.a. system), and with one principal they allowed a moment of silence after it.

[lizziesmom]

I am uncomfortable with all these public displays, whether it be praying out loud or a moment of silence. The cool thing about prayer is that you can close your eyes, bow your head, and pray just about anywhere without making it a public event.

"Matthew 6:6

But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

Matthew 6:5

“And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward."

[docmom]

Which version of the prayer does she want said? The Catholic version, the Episcopalian/Methodist one or the Presbyterian one? I was at a joint Methodist/Presbyterian retreat in high school and the leadership nearly came to blows over which version to use. Do these people think at all before introducing legislation????

[Sydney Fox]

What I don't get is where they get off telling everybody else what to do. If they want prayer in their schools they can always homeschool and pray all day if they want, or send their kids to religious schools. Leave everyone else the fuck alone!

FTR, I am an educated secular homeschooler. According to the laws of my province, I have to register my kids with the local schools. I got a call yesterday to let me know about the annual school board budget meeting tonight. My teenager asked me if I was going to attend and I told her that it would probably be interesting, but since I didn't actually send my kids to their schools, I probably shouldn't tell them how to spend their money.

If Josh and his fellow SOTDRTs shouldn't have a say in how schools are run.

[doggie]

What I don't get is where they get off telling everybody else what to do. If they want prayer in their schools they can always homeschool and pray all day if they want, or send their kids to religious schools. Leave everyone else the fuck alone!

because that is what fundis do go around trying to make the world into their image.

[August]

I wish that on April fool's day Obama would say "OK, everyone, congress voted to repeal the separation of church and state, so we're getting back to our Christian roots. I'm proud to announce that henceforth every American is a member of the Methodist church. Compulsory baptism of all individuals older than 3 months of age begins today, and the deadline is in three months time. Failure to baptise your children into the methodist faith is a rejection of our American values and will result in loss of citizenship" and then watch all the Baptists scream.