Older daughters living at home-Maxwells

[ljohnson2006]

They're all waiting for Prince Charming, and then they can pop out a litter.

[ThisOlGirl]

I was also expecting that they would have gotten another courtship going for Joseph by now. In fact, long past now. But no, there's nothing, only that they were doing some more work on the house he bought and fixed up for Liz's arrival. Sure doesn't look like suitors for the girls or prospective brides' daddies are lining up at Stevie's door oh so hoping that Stevie will approve a shot at getting a Maxwell spouse and therefore gaining entry into heaven the Maxhell compound.

Do you think the Munck family has spread the word behind the scenes about Steve and caused people to keep their kids away? Not really sure how popular the Muncks are in fundie circles. Maybe even fundies are catching on to just how batshit crazy Steve is.

[singsingsing]

I'd guess Joseph's pride was hurt and his confidence shaken. Maybe he still hasn't worked up the courage to go after another girl. Even if Joseph were courting someone right now, I'm sure we'd hear nothing about it until they were engaged.

[anjulibai]

I honestly think when they talk about their daughters supporting themselves after Steve and Teri are gone, they mean working for the brothers. They can't admit that, but it's the truth. I mean, they make a big deal about the sons being employed and income earners, but the sons are only income earners because Steve gave them jobs; the boys couldn't function out in the real world anymore than the girls could. I have no doubt none of them expects to ever have to work for someone else besides a family member, ever, except in maybe taking on like-minded clients as they already do.

[sparkles]

Sometime back, the Maxwells were selling some sad-looking little "inspirational" posters: generic-looking royalty-free-photo backgrounds with Bible verses printed over them. We had a bit of a giggle over them, because, IIRC, one of them had a pic of an animal in it that was different from the animal in the Bible verse, or some such nonsense.

Apparently these masterworks weren't selling, so Stevehovah posted on the blog that he was putting them on clearance. His comment was something like, "It seems people aren't interested in them *sigh*--" implying that IT'S YOUR FAULT, YOU GODLESS HEATHENS--WHAT IS *WRONG* WITH YOU?????

Of course, it wasn't because they were cheesy little things and a trip to any card store would get you something exponentially better.

Scripture Prints! I'm sure they're using them for kindling about now.

Having gotten a glance at Mary's art in some of their blog posts, I don't think she should be planning on a retrospective at the Met anytime soon. From what I gather she gets an occasional lesson from Dave and that's it. I can't imagine that Steve would ever allow her to take formal classes, so her art, like Sarah's writing, will never grow and improve since it's informed by...nothing. It will exist in a vacuum and probably be admired by people who are equally clueless. Of course, she could always illustrate Sarah's books.

As far as Anna and nutrition, I'm baffled. Aside from their green smoothies (which NEVER vary--I've got at least 100 different recipes), they really don't seem to eat very healthfully. Eating small portions of the same limited meals doesn't exactly speak to great nutrition.

[FloraDoraDolly]

I honestly think when they talk about their daughters supporting themselves after Steve and Teri are gone, they mean working for the brothers. They can't admit that, but it's the truth. I mean, they make a big deal about the sons being employed and income earners, but the sons are only income earners because Steve gave them jobs; the boys couldn't function out in the real world anymore than the girls could. I have no doubt none of them expects to ever have to work for someone else besides a family member, ever, except in maybe taking on like-minded clients as they already do.

Didn't Nathan work in the real world at some point? Doing something with computers?

[anjulibai]

Didn't Nathan work in the real world at some point? Doing something with computers?

He's done IT work for various companies, but always as a contractor from their Communication Concepts company.

[sparkles]

He's done IT work for various companies, but always as a contractor from their Communication Concepts company.

Nathan still does consulting work and I don't think he's as picky about his clients as Christopher is. There was a post that talked about how challenging it can be for Nathan to not be defrauded when he has to work on site because women and all that. Plus, I think there would be a very limited pool of clients that needed his services if he limited them to only the right kind of Christians. I do think they're trying to build up One Ton Ramp though so they can bring it all back home.

I still can't figure out what the rest if them do that keeps them working full time and Steve keeps that info vague as always.

[thoughtful]

Great post, as ever, Jezebel.

So are we truly to believe that, should her world fall apart and she finds herself all on her own, that Sarah will be able to pick herself up, dust herself off, decide on a plan that is all her own and really excites and inspires ther, and take independent action to make it so?

Oooh, she'd better not -- a Maxwell is never supposed to do anything that excites and inspires!

[Palimpsest]

Again for the purpose of discussion I quote from the blurb from Steve's book: Preparing Sons to Provide for a Single-Income Family. Available on Amazon and with seven (yes, 7!) whole customer reviews:

As the father of eight children, seven of them now wage-earning adults, Steve has gained valuable experience he openly shares with other parents. Learn these principles from a dad whose three oldest sons purchased homes debt free. Steve explains how it is possible for parents, with a willing commitment, to properly prepare their sons to provide for a single-income family.

What Steve fails to point out is that the seven "wage-earning adults" are all working for the family businesses. This is with the possible exceptions of Sarah (do we really believe that Steve lets her have her own bank account for the self-published and with limited appeal Moody books?) and Christopher's teensy wedding photography business. Other than that, they all work for the family businesses:

a) 1TonRamp, computer courses available elsewhere much cheaper, Communication concepts - whatever that is,

b) the "Steve and Teri" products (self-published books and Chore Packs, etc.), and

c) the so-called construction business -- AKA fairly competent (looking at photos) home renovation and we have not heard much about that recently.

What Stevo has not thought through in his plans for his children and grandchildren is that all of these businesses are dependent on the Maxwell Family Dog and Pony show. That is where the vast majority of marketing takes place, and Nathan and Chris have already been dropped -- or opted out of -- the conference circuit.

They have a very narrow customer base and it is totally dependent on Steve's "charisma." The books (Moody included) are hardly best-sellers and need constant promotion. When Steve and Teri need to retire or kick the bucket then the "boys" are going to have a really hard time keeping the businesses going. Unless they quickly learn to be real licenced general contractors, electricians or plumbers. The construction business "might" have legs.

The "boys" may follow Nathan and Christopher in getting married. The "girls" had better pull their socks up if they want to get married. Steve isn't going to give them any help in achieving that goal.

Failing marriage, the girls have been trained to expect to live under the protection of their brothers. They may inherit the house, but they will need to pay taxes and general maintainance costs on it. And eat. Their brothers will be struggling to make a living themselves and/or bring up their own growing families. Do they really want maiden aunts hanging around forever?

Someone above suggested that Steve might have life insurance. It had better be a whacking great policy to provide for all his 8 grossly under-educated children (and their families) in the future.

[ncb]

Yes, but if the sisters remain unmarried they can work for their brothers and get paid in room, board, and accountability.

[Black Aliss]

Sounds to me like the best case scenario is for the 'girls' to go to work in the distribution center for Amazon.

Lack of marketable (in the sense of living wage) skills notwithstanding, they have no experience living as Christians in a pluralisting society, i.e. living in the world without being of the world. They'd go one way or the other--completely "backslide" or completely fall apart the first time one of their colleagues drops an f-bomb in casual conversation. Something to think about, Steve.

[SPHASH]

I'd guess Joseph's pride was hurt and his confidence shaken. Maybe he still hasn't worked up the courage to go after another girl. Even if Joseph were courting someone right now, I'm sure we'd hear nothing about it until they were engaged.

Or married. Can't have another post announcing a broken engagement now can we?

[terranova]

Can you imagine what would happen if one of the boys married a girl, then she demanded a divorce?! :o

I know that would never happen as Steve would screen out anyone with a braincel prior to meeting his precious son, but it's interesting to imagine his face.

[YPestis]

Meh, if Stevie has life insurance, Sarah could be "taken care of" financially when he kicks the bucket. Hopefully her book earnings are being saved for her future, as well. So financially, I don't think it would be a big deal.

I'm not so sure whatever life insurance Steve has will be able to provide for Sarah (and possibly Anna/Mary). Teri could very likely outlive Steve (as women have longer lifespans) and may use up much of that money before she passes. Aren't Teri's parents hitting their 90's?

Even if that doesn't happen and Sarah gets most of that money, I doubt Steve can afford such an awesome insurance policy allowing Sarah to live modestly for the rest of her natural life. Sarah is only 31. Assuming Steve keeps a generous policy and lives for another 20 years and then Teri uses a small amount of it before passing, Sarah would still be in her 50's and will probably require money for the next 20-30 years! How many people can afford life insurance policies which allows their dependents to live, without any outside help, pensions, social security checks, 401(k) etc, for the next two or three decades above poverty? And then there's Anna and Mary to think about. If one or both remain unmarried, that insurance money will need to be split.

The Maxwell house is nice. If we assume all the men will eventually buy their own "debt-free" house, then the unmarried Maxwell sisters could sell or rent the house and use that income. That is a possibility. I assume any asset and money leftover from the parents' will go to the unmarried sister(s). But without some serious income coming in, the Maxwell ladies will have to work or marry in order to have money saved for old age.

Frankly, I'm surprised Steve and Teri's plan is to have the unmarried daughter venture into the workforce. The Corner article never mentions moving in with a brother---perhaps that is understood by their fundie audience, but I think living with a brother is the most logical step. Plus, I can't imagine Steve approving of females living without male headship.

I think what's going to happen is that any unmarried sister will move in with a brother. Any asset and money from the parents will be transferred to her as well. Right now, it looks like the Maxwells do ok. However, there are several working adults in that household (Steve, Jesse, John, Joseph) plus their helpers (all the females). There are no childcare costs, no college debts, no mortgage and all share living expenses. Their home was also built by themselves, implying they would be unable to afford to buy such a nice house. Currently, the Maxwells are at their maximum earning and spending potential. Finances will be stretched if/once someone marries and leaves the home and starts their own family.

I bet in the next ten years, Steve and Teri will have to retire for health reasons, leaving the children to continue on in the family business. Once/if the boys all marry and start their own households, then we will see how each son has done for themselves financially. I guess most will struggle to provide for their large and growing families and any unmarried sister will be just one more mouth to feed.

I think Nathan is lucky that he only has three kids. I imagine his income is pretty modest and would have serious problems with providing for a large brood. Christopher, with his seemingly fertile wife, will probably struggle to provide. I doubt any Maxwell son will see a stable, comfortable income. They may have tech certifications and self-taught home improvement skills but their restrictions on jobs and their lack of any higher education will probably limit their job options. Some may become successful businessman, but most will probably struggle to just keep afloat.

Sarah (and any unmarried daughters) will be no better off. In fact, I think her parents made her even more vulnerable. She will forever be dependent on the men in her family. She will probably move in with a brother, living in someone else' home, caring for someone else' children. The lady of the house will be her sister-in-law, with whom she must acquiesce all major decisions to. Not exactly something to forward to.

[LucySnowe]

It's been discussed plenty on FJ that they could flip houses. I genuinely don't see why this isn't mentioned as a possibility for the unmarried daughters and whichever sons want to contribute to this (married or not). They obviously all have useful skills in this area, it would bring in money, and they would be able to work in their little Maxwellian Borg Unit. Yes, there's the risk that an unmarried or gay or non-Christian person/family would want to buy the house, but it isn't as though they'd have to be *gasp* working beside these people, and no doubt a realtor would be happy to do the actual selling so that the Maxwells wouldn't have to sully themselves with unbelievers.

Also it has got to be better than cleaning the kitchen cabinets or ceiling fans, but maybe that's too close to fun.

[lilith]

It's been discussed plenty on FJ that they could flip houses. I genuinely don't see why this isn't mentioned as a possibility for the unmarried daughters and whichever sons want to contribute to this (married or not). They obviously all have useful skills in this area, it would bring in money, and they would be able to work in their little Maxwellian Borg Unit. Yes, there's the risk that an unmarried or gay or non-Christian person/family would want to buy the house, but it isn't as though they'd have to be *gasp* working beside these people, and no doubt a realtor would be happy to do the actual selling so that the Maxwells wouldn't have to sully themselves with unbelievers.

Also it has got to be better than cleaning the kitchen cabinets or ceiling fans, but maybe that's too close to fun.

They are too good at it - it would become an idol, like John's guitar playing. The Maxwells are only allowed to seriously pursue activities at which they are average, like Sarah's writing, Anna's cooking and Mary's art. If they do something they are good at it will cause pride and take focus away from Jesus.

[kpmom]

Re. the Maxwell's income; I have an idea much of their income comes from their twice a year trips. If Steve and Teri retire, or pass away, I'm not sure how that income would be replaced.

Does anyone think one or more of the brothers would continue this "ministry"?

[Jana814]

Re. the Maxwell's income; I have an idea much of their income comes from their twice a year trips. If Steve and Teri retire, or pass away, I'm not sure how that income would be

I wonder the same thing.

[anjulibai]

I could see Christopher taking over Titus2. He's got bigger crazy eyes than Nathan.

[nokidsmom]

Do you think the Munck family has spread the word behind the scenes about Steve and caused people to keep their kids away? Not really sure how popular the Muncks are in fundie circles. Maybe even fundies are catching on to just how batshit crazy Steve is.

While I have no way of knowing this, I don't think the Muncks are spreading anything about Steve. If nothing else, they really seem to care about their kids and for Liz's sake and her feelings, they would keep pretty quiet. They do seem like nice people in spite of being fundie and more classy too. Now, it's possible the sudden cancellation might have raised some questions amongst fellow fundies about what happened and if it had anything to do with any Maxwell crazy and perhaps there's been some private sharing about what went down, but I don't think Joseph's lack of a new courtship has anything to with that.

More likely Joseph was really hurt and has not worked up the courage for another go and / or Steveovah is clamping down even more on his "requirements" for a future son / daughter in law. A wedding being cancelled with a week to go is a big deal in any case, but for Steve it had to seriously blow his mind.

[uber frau]

How long was the interval between Chris's two engagements?

[ncb]

I'll bet Steve will have a pension or 401K from the job he left. He was there for awhile and I'm sure he left with the best severance he could. I think the daughters might be ok, but this lifestyle is truly unsustainable given how meager the income of the next generation will be as well as the fact that they will not have the retirement and likely health care benefits Steve had from spending most of his working life in the corporate world.

I'm not so sure whatever life insurance Steve has will be able to provide for Sarah (and possibly Anna/Mary). Teri could very likely outlive Steve (as women have longer lifespans) and may use up much of that money before she passes. Aren't Teri's parents hitting their 90's?

Even if that doesn't happen and Sarah gets most of that money, I doubt Steve can afford such an awesome insurance policy allowing Sarah to live modestly for the rest of her natural life. Sarah is only 31. Assuming Steve keeps a generous policy and lives for another 20 years and then Teri uses a small amount of it before passing, Sarah would still be in her 50's and will probably require money for the next 20-30 years! How many people can afford life insurance policies which allows their dependents to live, without any outside help, pensions, social security checks, 401(k) etc, for the next two or three decades above poverty? And then there's Anna and Mary to think about. If one or both remain unmarried, that insurance money will need to be split.

The Maxwell house is nice. If we assume all the men will eventually buy their own "debt-free" house, then the unmarried Maxwell sisters could sell or rent the house and use that income. That is a possibility. I assume any asset and money leftover from the parents' will go to the unmarried sister(s). But without some serious income coming in, the Maxwell ladies will have to work or marry in order to have money saved for old age.

Frankly, I'm surprised Steve and Teri's plan is to have the unmarried daughter venture into the workforce. The Corner article never mentions moving in with a brother---perhaps that is understood by their fundie audience, but I think living with a brother is the most logical step. Plus, I can't imagine Steve approving of females living without male headship.

I think what's going to happen is that any unmarried sister will move in with a brother. Any asset and money from the parents will be transferred to her as well. Right now, it looks like the Maxwells do ok. However, there are several working adults in that household (Steve, Jesse, John, Joseph) plus their helpers (all the females). There are no childcare costs, no college debts, no mortgage and all share living expenses. Their home was also built by themselves, implying they would be unable to afford to buy such a nice house. Currently, the Maxwells are at their maximum earning and spending potential. Finances will be stretched if/once someone marries and leaves the home and starts their own family.

I bet in the next ten years, Steve and Teri will have to retire for health reasons, leaving the children to continue on in the family business. Once/if the boys all marry and start their own households, then we will see how each son has done for themselves financially. I guess most will struggle to provide for their large and growing families and any unmarried sister will be just one more mouth to feed.

I think Nathan is lucky that he only has three kids. I imagine his income is pretty modest and would have serious problems with providing for a large brood. Christopher, with his seemingly fertile wife, will probably struggle to provide. I doubt any Maxwell son will see a stable, comfortable income. They may have tech certifications and self-taught home improvement skills but their restrictions on jobs and their lack of any higher education will probably limit their job options. Some may become successful businessman, but most will probably struggle to just keep afloat.

Sarah (and any unmarried daughters) will be no better off. In fact, I think her parents made her even more vulnerable. She will forever be dependent on the men in her family. She will probably move in with a brother, living in someone else' home, caring for someone else' children. The lady of the house will be her sister-in-law, with whom she must acquiesce all major decisions to. Not exactly something to forward to.

[moodygirl86]

Steve Maxwell, I hope there's a special place in hell for fathers like you who mentally cripple their children, especially daughters.

[nokidsmom]

I'll bet Steve will have a pension or 401K from the job he left. He was there for awhile and I'm sure he left with the best severance he could. I think the daughters might be ok, but this lifestyle is truly unsustainable given how meager the income of the next generation will be as well as the fact that they will not have the retirement and likely health

Steve probably still has his pension / 401k money left from his job, I don't he's the type to touch it early and pay tax penalities. But that money may be what sustains him and Teri through retirement and when both pass, nothing or very little may be left. I am seeing some elderly relatives (80's) who have been retired for 15-20 years now worrying about their dwindling 401k's that have been spent down. The only way those kids will end up with any significant amounts would be in the case of untimely deaths. Steve looks pretty fit and healthy so chances are he's going to be around for while and since women generally tend to outlive men, Teri will probably be around too.

So those kids may not get much of anything except the house. Even if there's no inheritance tax involved, (not sure what the laws are in Kansas) they still have at least property taxes and insurance (the brothers could do maintenance/repairs) to come up with. So it's something that will be a cost and with very limited incomes, they could really struggle just to keep up with that.