Older daughters living at home-Maxwells

[kpmom]

The Maxwell parents addressed a question in their latest Corners that we've often asked here.

 

Namely, what will happen to the female siblings if they never marry.

 

According to Steve and Teri, they have given their daughters skills that they can use if they ever need to support themselves.

 

If they never marry, the house will one day be theirs when Steve and Teri pass on.

 

Meanwhile, they have, ahem, chosen, to have shelter, protection, and, of course, accountability, and so they live at home.

 

I don't buy any of it.

 

The unmarried siblings have "chosen" to live at home because Steve and Teri have made it clear that is what they wanted. They say so in the article itself, and also say they've envisioned the same for their grandchildren.

 

The skills they mention each sister has might get them low level, entry level jobs, but it would be awfully tough to make a decent living at jobs like those.

 

And finally, even if the sisters really were allowed to live in the Maxwell house alone, after Steve and Teri pass on, would they honestly be able to get over the idea that grown women still need sheltering and protection?

 

Oh, and accountability, let's not forget that.

 

I think Steve and Teri have written what they think people want to hear, but I don't buy any of it.

 

ETA: the link titus2.com/corners/moms-corner/older-daughters-living-at-home.html

[Tesseract]

I agree. They will have the skills to clean someone else's house and perhaps watch other people's children, as long as the family is as conservative as their family, which pretty much means not all that likely. There are no well-paid writing gigs in any of their futures. I am left shaking my head as to the details of these skills of self-sufficiency! :roll:

[formergothardite]

What skills do they have that can make them enough money to support themselves with no job history outside of working for their father? Unless Steve is planning on leaving them a huge chunk of money they will need to be able to make enough money to pay taxes on the house, insurance for the house, pay utilities on the house, pay for insurance on a car along with maintenance on it, pay for health insurance and any medical costs that come up(and as they age medical problems will pop up) pay for food each month, clothing, there is just a lot of stuff to buy and I'm not seeing how three women who have never lived on their own, have never gone to college, and have never had a real job can actually support themselves.

[Luisainlondon1]

Of course the girls just love to live with their parents… of course they do, if you take over thinking for them, Steve!

I am pretty sure the girls wouldn't mind a little more fun and adventures in their lives.

[lizziesmom]

I'll believe the girls can live on their own when they actually move out of the parental home and start doing so. In all likelihood, Steve-O will leave the house in trust for the girls' to live in but one of the boys will be responsible for all financial decisions regarding the house and make sure that they have a roof over their heads.

[nokidsmom]

Those no way in hell any of those girls will be able to support themselves. No college, no real world work experience and so sheltered that their ability to work with people, especially people not like themselves, is up to serious question. The only way I can see them getting hired by any employer is during a very, very tight labor market which doesn't exist now and certainly can't count on in the future.

Personally, I don't think Steve and Teri are telling their readers what they want to hear. Both have totally deluded themselves into thinking that they truly have taught their daughters enough skills, given them sufficient education, and that their daughters have chosen to live at home with all the sheltering and accountability nonsense. They are that far down the rabbit hole to think this and are trying to delude their readers as well.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think that if Steve and Teri died, the unmarried adult Maxwells would not know how to cope. I don't know what would happen to them. They just wouldn't be able to function without an obsessive schedule and parents to tell them what to do. One of the married brothers might have to step in and take them in. I cant see them accepting any outside help (and what resources are available for an adult who has been so sheltered they have no idea how to function in society and have very little independence?).

I don't think they have any skills to get a good job, maybe something simple for minimum wage, but they also lack social skills, which can be a big obstacle in the workplace (as well as things like job interviews). They don't know how to manage their time as they've always had a schedule dictated to them-they cant keep to the schedule that they had if Steve and Teri died, they would have to change it to take over their parents chores, as well as earn money in a real job, and that in itself would be devastating without a parent to dictate what the new schedule is to them. They don't know how to make decisions as they have never made any before. They can at least do a good job of household chores-they can cook and clean, but do they have any idea on how to manage money and pay bills (I cant imagine that Steve lets them have much money of their own, they only probably get a few dollars out of the various projects like the books and computer course to keep, while he gets the rest). They don't know how to be alone, or how to have free time. They are completely cut off from the outside world and would find it difficult to go out alone and talk to people. They are very vulnerable, not being allowed to voice their opinion, even if they are upset about something and need help-Teri felt guilty for being in a bad mood because she was in pain, and felt she didn't deserve to complain about it or cry, and felt that she had done wrong when she said something to a family member that upset them when she wasn't well. Theyre not going to be able to express their feelings about losing their parents, or ask for help when they are struggling to manage the household, or don't know how to do something. They've been taught complete submission, so they don't know how to stand up for themselves, they could get taken advantage of very easily, and never complain or tell anyone if they've been treated badly.

Steves just setting the kids up for failure when they do have to go out into the world. Hes not going to be able to protect them forever.

[lilwriter85]

I hate to say this, but I see Sarah living in that house alone one day. I think Steve will likely marry off Anna and Mary. I believe Mary turns 18 this year and she is very pretty young woman and I bet some fundie boys would love her hand in marriage.

[TrueRebel1]

Hmm...so let's say that at 45 years old, the single Maxwell daughters inherit the house and are going to support themselves. I see only 2 options.

1) Something along the lines of being a house-cleaner. Doesn't require a job resume, but does not pay very well (and not an easy job once they get older).

2) Maybe, if they are lucky, they could get a job at Walmart or some such place. But being middle age with no job background whatsoever, even that is doubtful. Once again, this is probably a minimum-wage job.

The best advantage the Maxwells could give their daughters to provide for them after their death, is a solid job resume, a good credit history, and some real education useful in the job market.

[formergothardite]

I didn't think about the lack of social skills. They have no idea on how to act with other people outside their family. If they did get a job cleaning house you know that they would launch into a speech about death as often as they can to whoever hired them and most likely would not last long just based on that.

And they really don't know how to manage their time. They have never had to make any real decisions on their own. I really don't think that they would be able to function on their own.

[Justme]

Good points, all. Plus, when they are old, they won't be able to collect social security as they never paid into it or had a husband who paid into it.

I haven't read the corner yet, but at least it shows Stevie is realizing one or more of his girls may never marry.

How sad to be raised for marriage to never be married. This is why we heathens educate our daughters.

[browngrl]

I'll bet that the younger two girls get married and the boys seem to have construction and computer skills so that only leaves poor Sarah. I suspect that she will move in with one brother and their family - as spinsters seemed to do in Victorian times. The proceeds of the house would surely go to the brother charged with her care. I suspect that her life will be quite small and limited (but how is that different from now?).

[singsingsing]

I don't think Sarah would ever live there alone. One of her married siblings would move in with their spouse and kids, and Sarah would become the classic spinster aunt.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I think they might make it, just as so many other people whose lives get upended suddenly are forced to hustle far out of their comfort zone to make it, but it would definitely mean a radical life change to the extent they probably can't imagine it.

With no resume and no education beyond high school (and that high school not being a GED) they're probably looking at some sort of housecleaning type stuff or else retail, yeah. Possibly if they've done enough management in the family book selling/shipping biz, they can finagle some sort of entry level (VERY entry level) office or receptionist gig, but as others point out they'd be competing with people who have more education and probably a resume, so they won't be high on the list.

...unless possibly it's a tiny Christian business that would specifically want to help them out.

Either way, that's likely going to be minimum wage or not much above it.

And yes, it means mixing with the vast unwashed, which would be quite the culture shock. No more sheltering.

People have done it though - restarted from nothing at absolutely the ground floor. But it would be a completely new life.

Their other option, of course, is as American citizens without any Social Security to rely on, they can apply for standard welfare. No doubt they'd say they don't believe in it or whatever, but once it gets down to truly you're out of food, that tends to change minds. Or, they can lean on family (I suspect that's the option they'd really be thinking about). So, the spinster aunt thing. Honestly that's where I think they'd end up - or if they trying to do the "restart from scratch" thing, using their family instead of public social services for the initial startup costs.

The other option a lot of people have is relying on their church, but the Maxwells don't belong to a standard church.

So yeah. If I had to bet, I bet on spinster aunt.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Though if the lone sister were to actually own that house free and clear, one option would be to rent out that house and move somewhere cheaper than the rent she'd be charging (either an apartment, a room, or - again, most likely - move in with a sibling).

So she could contribute income to the combined sibling house she lives in, by renting out the house she would own (parents' old house, that she inherited).

[Hisey]

Accountability for what? I'm not trying to be cruel here, but one thing I have noticed about many over-protected, over-modest fundie girls is. . . no one is breaking down the door to court or marry them.

I know a fundie family who, from the getgo, was worried about protecting their girl with lots of modesty, covering up, chaperoning, etc. You know what? Guys were not interested in all that work and pressure. The girls, who were very pretty, simply did not attract any young men their age.

I see the same happening with Sarah. All this emphasis on not having contrasting buttons because it might cause a man to get super-horny. . . and no one is looking anyway. Sarah is a lovely woman, but there are lots of lovely women out there, most of whom are not wrapped up in so many layers of parent.

There is nothing for Sarah to be accountable for. They need to stop worrying. Most young conservative Christian men of her age are already committed to relationships.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Do they know how banking works? (And I mean just a bank statement--not international banking!!)

How to get car insurance--do they have driver's licenses?

I could see one of them maybe working at the nursing home--it seems the only "safe" out-of-home location.

I agree the big thing is that if they were ever left the house and had to live alone would they be able to relax and enjoy it after a lifetime of being taught to be paranoid of everything.

I wonder, too, about the Arndt guys--same things.

[nokidsmom]

Accountability for what? I'm not trying to be cruel here, but one thing I have noticed about many over-protected, over-modest fundie girls is. . . no one is breaking down the door to court or marry them.

I know a fundie family who, from the getgo, was worried about protecting their girl with lots of modesty, covering up, chaperoning, etc. You know what? Guys were not interested in all that work and pressure. The girls, who were very pretty, simply did not attract any young men their age.

I see the same happening with Sarah. All this emphasis on not having contrasting buttons because it might cause a man to get super-horny. . . and no one is looking anyway. Sarah is a lovely woman, but there are lots of lovely women out there, most of whom are not wrapped up in so many layers of parent.

There is nothing for Sarah to be accountable for. They need to stop worrying. Most young conservative Christian men of her age are already committed to relationships.

I suspect that many of the SAHDs we talk about here have had suitors that were turned down or word got around that Daddy was too much of an obstacle. As I mentioned on the Bodkin thread, the figurative "hedge of thorns" that Daddy throws up and expects a suitor to whack his way through if he is truly worthy. Heck, I have seen this sort of thing in non fundie families including mine.

And yet there still has to be "accountability" even as no one comes knocking and the simple fact that we are talking about adults here. An adult doesn't have to be accountable to parents like they were as a kid for anything. Even Sarah decided to up and go to the big city, get a job, an apartment, a boyfriend, a tattoo, or whatever, she's not accountable to Stevie. Doesn't matter if he thinks so. Sure it will make his head explode, she's going to hell, certain death, etc. but she's still not accountable to him. This is the one thing that makes nuts about adults in fundie families still stuck at home. The power is within them to realize that their life is their own, but they are too brainwashed to realize it and do something about it or get over the fear of of doing it before it's too late.

[SPHASH]

I don't think Sarah would ever live there alone. One of her married siblings would move in with their spouse and kids, and Sarah would become the classic spinster aunt.

Would she have to share a room with her nieces?

[Palimpsest]

I thought I'd bring over the actual list of qualificationsskills and experience from Titus2.com Mom and Dad's corner for discussion.

We have given our girls learning opportunities just like our boys have had so that they not only have homemaking skills but also have income-producing skills. Sarah has learned business management skills, including Quickbooks, inventory, shipping, taxes, marketing, and more. Not only that, but she also has now authored eight successful children’s books. Anna has bookkeeping skills she learned as she managed the boys’ construction-business books, has her A+ certificate, and much experience in nutrition and exercise. Mary is taking art classes.

How will all this translate to future employers in an interview situation?

1. We have possibly two real certificates in there - Quickbooks (Sarah) and the A+ thing (Anna).

2. Sarah can count (inventory), wrap parcels and figure out postage (shipping). She has enough skill in math to add and subtract and figure out percentages (taxes). She can post stuff on the webpage and take registration for conferences (marketing). And she wrote those passive voice sickly-sweet books. Not a good advertisement for her writing skills.

3. Anna has learned basic bookkeeping and may understand a budget. She may know how to write checks and balance a checkbook too. I'm sure she has a lot of experience in making smoothies and meatless burritos (nutrition). She knows about exercise through summiting 14ers. Whatever.

4. Mary is taking art classes. Great.

References? Only from family. Work history? Family business only. Pay expectations? Was Anna paid by her brothers for bookkeeping? My guess is not. Where do the profits from Sarah's books go? My guess is Steve's account.

So working for their brothers, other Fundies or, at most, their own sister-run cleaning or childcare business is about it for future employment opportunities.

Best case: Sarah will write "Growing Up Maxwell: An Expose" and it will sell enough copies for her to support herself and her sisters until they can get decent qualifications or GEDs somehow. All of FJ readership will probably buy Sarah's expose but the Maxwells aren't well known enough for it to be a best seller.

[lizziesmom]

Sounds to me like the best case scenario is for the 'girls' to go to work in the distribution center for Amazon.

[Koala]

These people make me sick. My daughter's biggest problem is figuring out what kind of doctor she wants to be. These two have done a real number on their children. :(

Also, it's interesting how Steve is including his grandchildren in this. Now I guess his married sons' families are accountable to him too.

[Palimpsest]

Sounds to me like the best case scenario is for the 'girls' to go to work in the distribution center for Amazon.

Aren't they moving towards using octocopter drones at Amazon? Oh wait . . .

[snickerz]

Meh, if Stevie has life insurance, Sarah could be "taken care of" financially when he kicks the bucket. Hopefully her book earnings are being saved for her future, as well. So financially, I don't think it would be a big deal. Emotionally, however, I think it would be almost crippling for her to live alone and not have someone tell her what to do and how to think every moment of the day. Just realizing she could put hamburger in the burritoes if she wanted would probably cripple her with guilt and shame. Much less if she's tempted to skip one of the 20 bible studies each day. The only way she'd live in the home after her parents croak is if there are several unmarried "kids" to live there together (including an unmarried brother to be the "spiritual leader" of the home). If it's just the girls, they'll be farmed out to the married siblings' homes and it will be "such a blessing."

[nokidsmom]

The only way she'd live in the home after her parents croak is if there are several unmarried "kids" to live there together (including an unmarried brother to be the "spiritual leader" of the home).

This arrangement sounds like the Maxwellian version of a convent/monastery. So not only has Stevie set himself up as an idol to his family (and make no mistake, he has) he will manage to establish his very own holy order consisting of his surviving single kids.