I listened so you don't have to: Teri Maxwell

[MamaJunebug]

I was so surprised to hear Teri's speaking voice. I expected it to be little-girlish, and her movements to be mincing and demure. The exact opposite was true of the voice: It's clear, not high, and she's an accomplished speaker, able to turn her lines, though obviously memorized, into declarative statements that give a hint of spontaneity in her presentations.

She stands with shoulders back - the opposite of subordinate - until something goes wrong, and then her shoulders round over in classic defensive posture. Which of course isn't suprising.

My The Spousal Unit and I have not had an easy time. His mental illness manifested itself very early in our marriage as telling me not to tell him what to do, not to whine (request something) and not to "nag" - "nag" was a catchall for "don't tell me what to do, don't remind me what to do, don't mention if I haven't done something." I shouldn't have stayed but I did, but I also didn't stand for such bullshit. The "n" word has not been used in our house in decades, literally decades.

So when I read the OP's review, there were lots of triggers but more, there was a sense of bewilderment: Why does she allow this to continue? Especially when they moved to northeast Kansas to be near Teri's parents, and she might have taken the kids to Gigi & Granpa's and just said "no" to Steve? I mean, she met him in a college chemistry class -- she has the brains to get herself employed somewhere. It's not as though she dropped out of school at 16 to go to work to help put food on the table for her parents and siblings, and was left with only the most menial of skills!

I'm not criticizing her alone - with a problematic husband, I've no ground to stand on and say she should've done what I never did - most of my indignation is with Steve. He's obviously got emotional issues oozing from every benighted pore of his body.

Poor Sarah's sad eyes make sense to me now. Not only has she - prompted by her dad in some cases, no doubt - turned down potential suitors, but her life experience has been to watch her dad control her mom and her 2 older brothers, first with a rather typical, 1950s/1960s "father knows best"/"dad is king!" way, that became more extreme as she grew.

Despite what she might have seen in Gigi & Grandpa's marriage, or in the families of her sisters-in-law, to the best of her knowledge, what her parents have is what marriage is. So while she may or may not crave love, her own home, sex, children ... to her, all of those things come with an even-more total subjugation of any independent or creative thought she may have ever had. I'd be very surprised if she didn't also have depression, whether because she got the same genetics as Teri, or situationally. She (unlike Mary and Anna) knows there is another way of life and she might remember that it's not as vile and dangerous as her father makes it out to be. But she's in no position whatever to know for herself.

I wonder how many Maxwellophiles have taken isolation and control to the extent that Steve and Teri have. Dear dog in heaven, I hope none!

[ILoveJellybeans]

Poor Teri :( Poor "kids" :( This is so sad.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sarah was depressed, in fact, I would be more surprised if none of the kids (especially the ones who were old enough to remember life before their descent into Maxhell) were depressed, or at least felt unfulfilled and bored with their beige life.

I don't know what would be best for Sarah. Her home life sucks, but any man who passes the standards Steve expects wouldn't be any better. It would be the same (submission, misery, boredom, chores...) just a different guy. Id love for her to get a boyfriend who adores her and has such a sweet and romantic courtship like Chad and Erin had, but its never going to happen. In Maxhell, the most love a husband can display for a wife is stopping on the way home to get her a soda, but they don't even do that anymore because Steve convinced her that the occasional soda was too fun and she should give it up, and the most love a wife can display for her husband is to be his robot sex doll slave.

Its like someone who has been raised in a dark cell since childhood, and can barely remember what it is like to be part of the world-by staying, they are basically sitting there waiting to die, but releasing from that will also be kinda traumatizing too-especially if she has been taught to be afraid of everything. Either way, life sucks and she is going to need a good therapist if she has any hope in life.

I don't know whats worse. Having a normal life and then having that ripped away and being forced into this horrible endlessly miserable life to wait to die, like Teri and the oldest Maxwells, or being raised in this cell of misery and never seeing the outside world like the reversals. I guess it is easier on the younger ones, theyre in a horrible situation, but they don't know any different. They've never had anything to miss. They have no memories of a better time to haunt them, and make them wonder what it would be like to go back to these things. They aren't sitting there chained to the wall in a dark place, thinking about their memories of the past, that outside of those metal bars there is a place with sunshine and good food...theyre just sitting in the dark like its something everyone in the world does, as they don't know any better. The cage is safe. Its home. Freeing a reversal would probably be harder though, at least the older ones have some memories of the outside world that were positive, but they haven't had any experiences of it at all. All they know about the outside world is the things Steve chooses to tell them. It would be like pulling that person out of their safe dark cage and throwing them out into the noisy, chaotic world where everything is strange and scary and the light hurts their eyes.

[skankbiscuit]

I think it's an interesting theory that Sarah may know what's up and be deliberately avoiding marriage. Maybe she feels like she needs to protect Teri and the younger "kids" in a way. It's possible she wouldn't want to live thousands of miles from her siblings and mom and be considered only a "relative"at that point.

[sparkles]

I think it's an interesting theory that Sarah may know what's up and be deliberately avoiding marriage. Maybe she feels like she needs to protect Teri and the younger "kids" in a way. It's possible she wouldn't want to live thousands of miles from her siblings and mom and be considered only a "relative"at that point.

I absolutely agree with the bolded. The likelihood that she'll be married to someone close to home (wouldn't that have happened already?) or to someone who isn't already established and would be willing to move to the compound seems pretty slim. So for Sarah, and the other girls as well, marriage probably means leaving behind everything they've ever known, family they've been surrounded by 24/7/365--no support system at all except what they can get long distance. I don't think Steve would indulge any homesickness or adjustment on the part of the girls, and based on Teri's posts, they've all been taught that feeling sad, down or in pain is a fucking SIN. If there is a genetic pre-disposiiton to depression, then marriage could definitely be a trigger.

And that whole "transfer of ownership, er...authority" thing at the wedding just screams, "She's YOUR problem now, buddy."

[RachelB]

I absolutely agree with the bolded. The likelihood that she'll be married to someone close to home (wouldn't that have happened already?) or to someone who isn't already established and would be willing to move to the compound seems pretty slim. So for Sarah, and the other girls as well, marriage probably means leaving behind everything they've ever known, family they've been surrounded by 24/7/365--no support system at all except what they can get long distance. I don't think Steve would indulge any homesickness or adjustment on the part of the girls, and based on Teri's posts, they've all been taught that feeling sad, down or in pain is a fucking SIN. If there is a genetic pre-disposiiton to depression, then marriage could definitely be a trigger.

And that whole "transfer of ownership, er...authority" thing at the wedding just screams, "She's YOUR problem now, buddy."

Co-sign. My mom's dad died long before she married, but her brothers told my father at their wedding, "Don't bring her back."

My mom is not helpless, but she thinks back on that exchange between her brothers and my father as the moment when she realized that she could not talk with her family of origin about problems in their relationship, and that she didn't anticipate any emotional support from them if she decided to leave the marriage, even if she had good reasons to do so.

:pull-hair:

[Mela99]

So... do they ignore every passage about respecting and loving and honoring your wife?

I say this because we planned out Catholic ceremony and I chose one from song of songs or something that said "your wife is your equal" without the preceding she is weaker than you

[twin2]

I think it's an interesting theory that Sarah may know what's up and be deliberately avoiding marriage. Maybe she feels like she needs to protect Teri and the younger "kids" in a way. It's possible she wouldn't want to live thousands of miles from her siblings and mom and be considered only a "relative"at that point.

The only problem with this is, that I think she must realize that once Teri is no longer able to cater to all of Steve's whims and fancies, it is going to fall on her. That guy has been submitted to so much and his need worshiping so massive he is going to need someone to take Teri's place in filling that void.

[lilith]

The only problem with this is, that I think she must realize that once Teri is no longer able to cater to all of Steve's whims and fancies, it is going to fall on her. That guy has been submitted to so much and his need worshiping so massive he is going to need someone to take Teri's place in filling that void.

This. Even though Steve could move in with a married daughter if Teri preceded him to sweet release from Maxhell, there would still be another headship. If he keeps Sarah at home there won't be any competition.

Although he could move in with Christopher and NR Anna - I don't see them challenging his place as Primary Patriarch.

[Marian the Librarian]

I'm just now getting caught up on this thread (SO inconvenient, when real life interferes with one's FJ responsibilities... :lol: ) Like everyone else here, I just can't even...

What this makes me contemplate is the concept of intent - and the sad reality that Steve's default mode is always, always the assumption of evil intent. It's not just the whole world that's against him while headed to Hell in a handbasket; every member of his family has it in for him, as well. Teri reminds him to pick up the pizza so everyone gets to eat dinner? Why, she obviously wants to make him look like an idiot! Kids have even the most minor disagreement? They're doing it to make him look like a less than perfect parent!

Rule #1 in Maxhell: It has to be all about Steve, all the time. Rule #2 in Maxhell: if it's not about Steve, see Rule #1.

[Jana814]

I think that if Steve was left a widower any of his kids would want him to move in with them. I also think that they would treat him as the king that he thinks he is. Possibly at the expense & happiness of their spouse & children.

[twin2]

I'm just now getting caught up on this thread (SO inconvenient, when real life interferes with one's FJ responsibilities... :lol: ) Like everyone else here, I just can't even...

What this makes me contemplate is the concept of intent - and the sad reality that Steve's default mode is always, always the assumption of evil intent. It's not just the whole world that's against him while headed to Hell in a handbasket; every member of his family has it in for him, as well. Teri reminds him to pick up the pizza so everyone gets to eat dinner? Why, she obviously wants to make him look like an idiot! Kids have even the most minor disagreement? They're doing it to make him look like a less than perfect parent!

Rule #1 in Maxhell: It has to be all about Steve, all the time. Rule #2 in Maxhell: if it's not about Steve, see Rule #1.

Rule#3 in Maxhell: When in doubt, see rules #1 and 2.

[Revolennon]

Soooo...to sum it all up in a few words, Teri's advice is to be a doormat. Sounds like a healthy relationship to me!

Also, the thought of a man so catered to that he can't even squeeze out his own toothpaste brings one phrase to mind: what a baby. An absolutely coddled, stunted, man-child pussy. Disgusting.

[lilith]

Soooo...to sum it all up in a few words, Teri's advice is to be a doormat. Sounds like a healthy relationship to me!

Also, the thought of a man so catered to that he can't even squeeze out his own toothpaste brings one phrase to mind: what a baby. An absolutely coddled, stunted, man-child pussy. Disgusting.

Interestingly, my ex husband had a relationship with a bar girl in Thailand in his youth. He told me that she used to put his toothpaste on his toothbrush for him every morning and evening. That's the only other time I've ever heard of someone doing that.

It makes me wonder where Steve developed the preference to have it done for him.

Something to think about.......

[gustava]

Interestingly, my ex husband had a relationship with a bar girl in Thailand in his youth. He told me that she used to put his toothpaste on his toothbrush for him every morning and evening. That's the only other time I've ever heard of someone doing that.

It makes me wonder where Steve developed the preference to have it done for him.

Something to think about.......

Wasn't he in the Air Force?

[Jana814]

Soooo...to sum it all up in a few words, Teri's advice is to be a doormat. Sounds like a healthy relationship to me!

Also, the thought of a man so catered to that he can't even squeeze out his own toothpaste brings one phrase to mind: what a baby. An absolutely coddled, stunted, man-child pussy. Disgusting.

Agree on both statements.

[BoomerLynn]

This whole thing makes me so sad for her. I can't imagine living a life like that. I wonder if she ever has any regrets, or if she just doesn't allow herself to even think about it. Does she miss the person she used to be before she met Steve? If rumors are true and Steve reads here: Steve you are not a man nor a leader. You are an overgrown toddler. A real man, a real leader, can handle criticism. He doesn't mind being corrected if wrong. He has no problem being reminded of something he would otherwise forget. You bloviate about being such a good Christian, yet you do not follow the teachings of Christ. Jesus said for all to be humble and meek, not just women. You are to love your wife as Christ loved the Church. Jesus stated he came to serve, and you put yourself above Him by demanding to be served and catered to. You have made an idol of yourself, and use your so-called religion to abuse your wife and children. You are pathetic. Get over yourself.

Also:

If I put toothpaste on my husband's toothbrush he would think I have lost my damn mind :cray-cray: , or that I was playing a practical joke on him. And he would be pissed as hell if I let the electric get shut off rather than remind him to pay the bill. Then again he has no problem with me reminding him to stop at the store, or telling him something happened on Tuesday and not Monday. After all, he's an adult and we tend to be able to handle such things. :roll:

[lilith]

Wasn't he in the Air Force?

Yes. And he was posted in Thailand. It's that that makes me wonder where he picked up a preference for something that I've only ever heard of anyone doing once, and that anyone was a Thai bar girl.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

There was a tell-all book a few years ago written by a butler (valet? footman?) about Prince Charles. The Prince of Wales also had his toothpaste squeezed out for him and that became a big joke to the British people. Charles became the butt of a lot of jokes about that. Too bad the fundy world can't see how stuuuuupid this makes Steve and Teri look.

I thought I knew the depths of Maxhell but it seems I can still be shocked. I have to wonder how far Teri and the kids would or will take the submissive stance in the face of dangerous crazy. If Steve decided that the whole family does not need to eat food anymore but to attain all of their nourishment from the words of the Bible, would Teri just smile and agree? If Steve decided to inflict real bodily harm to someone because he decided they had disobeyed him-- such as cutting out John's tongue for being too smart-- would Terri bow her head in silent acquiescence? If Steve got it into his head to give away everything they own and force his family to become homeless would Terri cheerfully go ahead with the plan? They have become more isolated, more crazed, more extreme with each passing year and you have to wonder how far it can go. If they ever stop blogging and stop touring I think that might be warning signs.

[ADoyle90815]

This whole thing makes me so sad for her. I can't imagine living a life like that. I wonder if she ever has any regrets, or if she just doesn't allow herself to even think about it. Does she miss the person she used to be before she met Steve? If rumors are true and Steve reads here: Steve you are not a man nor a leader. You are an overgrown toddler. A real man, a real leader, can handle criticism. He doesn't mind being corrected if wrong. He has no problem being reminded of something he would otherwise forget. You bloviate about being such a good Christian, yet you do not follow the teachings of Christ. Jesus said for all to be humble and meek, not just women. You are to love your wife as Christ loved the Church. Jesus stated he came to serve, and you put yourself above Him by demanding to be served and catered to. You have made an idol of yourself, and use your so-called religion to abuse your wife and children. You are pathetic. Get over yourself.

Also:

If I put toothpaste on my husband's toothbrush he would think I have lost my damn mind :cray-cray: , or that I was playing a practical joke on him. And he would be pissed as hell if I let the electric get shut off rather than remind him to pay the bill. Then again he has no problem with me reminding him to stop at the store, or telling him something happened on Tuesday and not Monday. After all, he's an adult and we tend to be able to handle such things. :roll:

I do feel sad for her as there's no way I'd want to live a life like that. Fortunately for me, my fiancee would think I've either lost my mind or that I was playing a practical joke if he saw me put toothpaste on his toothbrush. He would also be pissed if I allowed the electricity to be shut off instead of either reminding him about the bill or paying it myself. I'm marrying an adult who has lived on his own since he was in college, so he knows that bills have to be paid on time to avoid not just fees, but having things shut off.

[copper]

Interestingly, my ex husband had a relationship with a bar girl in Thailand in his youth. He told me that she used to put his toothpaste on his toothbrush for him every morning and evening. That's the only other time I've ever heard of someone doing that.

It makes me wonder where Steve developed the preference to have it done for him.

Something to think about.......

Elton, John Hugh, where are you? PLEAASSSEEE post a fundie-speak-heavy comment mentioning a revisit of this study during Family Bible Time with your own family. Declare how pleased you are that Terri also puts on the toothpaste, as your wife also does. Include a lengthy story about a sinful relationship with a woman while stationed overseas. But even in that, the beauty of submission reigned. :cracking-up:

[Revolennon]

Also:

If I put toothpaste on my husband's toothbrush he would think I have lost my damn mind :cray-cray: , or that I was playing a practical joke on him. And he would be pissed as hell if I let the electric get shut off rather than remind him to pay the bill. Then again he has no problem with me reminding him to stop at the store, or telling him something happened on Tuesday and not Monday. After all, he's an adult and we tend to be able to handle such things. :roll:

[Want More Babies]

I think it was in one of the Corners where Teri, who suffers from a bad back, was talking out how she was in great pain one day and feeling sorry for herself and somewhat snappish. In a normal family, you'd be able to talk about your pain--or your family members would know from experience--and everyone would understand and be a little tolerant. Not in the Maxwell Collective. Instead, Teri focused on her sin of not keeping sweet and making everyone else feel bad. Honestly, I wanted to cry when I read that. The woman can't even be in pain without feeling guilty about it. No, it's got to be a "spiritual battle." That's how little she--or anyone else in that family--matters as an individual.

Found it:

The thing is, even in physical pain, it is wrong to seek relief from pain just to be pain free. I am sure Steve has told this to Teri over and over. :(

No, I do not think it’s wrong to take a pill for pain. I believe it is a problem, though, when the discomfort from the pain becomes your idol—when you are willing to sin (which takes many forms and are too varied to list them all here) to get what you want (relief).

Do you struggle with this? Do you find yourself focusing more on relief from the pain more than seeking to understand how the Lord is working in your life through the pain? Spend some time thinking and praying through Philippians 2 today—with joy and thanksgiving for even this point in life where the Lord has lovingly placed you.

bc4women.blogspot.com/2014/01/when-pain-doesnt-go-away.html

[snickerz]

Not only are wives supposed to submit to their husbands in this culture, but children are to submit to their parents. Hence, the blanket training (repeatedly smacking an infant who dares to try to crawl off a blanket) and other obedience training that is meant to squelch a child's will. It's not just Teri who lives life as a robot trying to please Steve and never daring to have a thought of her own - Sarah and the other "kids" have been raised this way as well. (Reference Mary & the orthodontist) There's no way they'd ever challenge him (and Sarah would never even dream of saying no to a suitor Steve approved of). It's not just that they WOULDN'T do it - it doesn't occur to them that they COULD do it.

In Teri's story "someone" told her she seemed to have "attitude" in something she had said...NO WAY would one of the kids ever dare to do such a thing. It was Steve. Of course it was Steve! I'm sure there hasn't been a day in their marriage where he hasn't told her that shes doing it all wrong (and that she's a nag). And in her story she had a "kind of allergic reaction in her mouth" (sounds like my daughter's oral allergy syndrome to certain fruits) - does Steve make her eat chicken even though she's allergic to it? I wouldn't doubt it.

[gustava]

I'd bet that everything we say here on FJ just reinforces for Steve that he's in the right. If he reads here, he does so simply to reinforce his sense of self.

[Trynn]

Not only are wives supposed to submit to their husbands in this culture, but children are to submit to their parents. Hence, the blanket training (repeatedly smacking an infant who dares to try to crawl off a blanket) and other obedience training that is meant to squelch a child's will. It's not just Teri who lives life as a robot trying to please Steve and never daring to have a thought of her own - Sarah and the other "kids" have been raised this way as well. (Reference Mary & the orthodontist) There's no way they'd ever challenge him (and Sarah would never even dream of saying no to a suitor Steve approved of). It's not just that they WOULDN'T do it - it doesn't occur to them that they COULD do it.

In Teri's story "someone" told her she seemed to have "attitude" in something she had said...NO WAY would one of the kids ever dare to do such a thing. It was Steve. Of course it was Steve! I'm sure there hasn't been a day in their marriage where he hasn't told her that shes doing it all wrong (and that she's a nag). And in her story she had a "kind of allergic reaction in her mouth" (sounds like my daughter's oral allergy syndrome to certain fruits) - does Steve make her eat chicken even though she's allergic to it? I wouldn't doubt it.

That story kinda made it sound like Terri might have benefited from a hospital visit, in which case, yeah crying won't do much good, get thyself to a physician. Since that obviously wasn't an option for her, tears are indeed an appropriate response.