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Bill Nye and Ken Ham Creation/Evolution Debate


Ralar

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I asked my 6 year old to explain this to me this morning and she gave me a correct explanation of the earth turning on its axis. If a 6 year old knows this, how can this woman not know this? The level of ignorance shown here is both shocking and scary.

I interpreted the sunset comment as referring to the beauty of it, not the mechanics. As in, "when nature offers us something beautiful to look at, it must be because someone created it" because what, nature can't be beautiful on its own?

The ones about the purpose of life make me grrr too -- I believe that we can, as individuals, CHOOSE to make X or Y our life's purpose, but that is our choice. I do not believe there is any inherent purpose -- we simply are, and then we add to it for ourselves as we wish.

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A Reporter asked 22 self-identifying creationists at the Bill Nye/Ken Ham debate to write a message/question/note to the other side. Here’s what they wrote:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/messages-from-creationists-to-people-who-believe-in-evolutio?bffb

I generally do not try to figure someone out from a still photo -- I don't think it's possible.

That said, there was something so glassy-eyed and stiff-smiling about the expression in this picture, that I just couldn't resist (and yes, the caption is a joke -- I don't claim to know anything about this young woman's feelings):

18fQ32I.jpg

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Number 4 has a punchable face. Outsmugs Smuggar.

Is he the one who looks like PP?

So...I am kinda depressed because I posted something about this on facebook, and have learned my sister and mom are creationists. Like WTF? I am ready to cry. (They are otherwise intelligent people.) They think God made the stars. :?

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Is he the one who looks like PP?

So...I am kinda depressed because I posted something about this on facebook, and have learned my sister and mom are creationists. Like WTF? I am ready to cry. (They are otherwise intelligent people.) They think God made the stars. :?

Sometimes it helps to assure people that they can still be Christian even if they accept evolution as a fact.

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I think number 8 and 18 really summarize this group of people to a T. They are "Where do you derive objective meaning in life" and "What purpose do you think you are here for if you do not believe in salvation"

These people are so afraid of the fact that, in the grander scheme of things, their lives are inconsequential and non-meaningful. It terrifies them to think that they are the product of a combination of scientific reactions. They cannot find meaning in their own lives as they live them, so they have to create an outside source of meaning as a comfort to them. They are so driven by this fear that they just chose to put blinders on when presented with logical information.

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I think number 8 and 18 really summarize this group of people to a T. They are "Where do you derive objective meaning in life" and "What purpose do you think you are here for if you do not believe in salvation"

These people are so afraid of the fact that, in the grander scheme of things, their lives are inconsequential and non-meaningful. It terrifies them to think that they are the product of a combination of scientific reactions. They cannot find meaning in their own lives as they live them, so they have to create an outside source of meaning as a comfort to them. They are so driven by this fear that they just chose to put blinders on when presented with logical information.

It's the same argument as the one that evolution demands a social darwinist ethic. It doesn't, but even if it did, it's inconsequential to whether evolution is fact.

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Even Pat Robinson tells Ham to shut up.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/02/05/p ... ourselves/

Ahahahahahaha! I like this comment by "Dana":

When you're a right-wing Christian and Pat ROBert$on's telling you you're unreasonable, it's time to re-evaluate your life.

Truer words were never spoken, Dana.

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I think number 8 and 18 really summarize this group of people to a T. They are "Where do you derive objective meaning in life" and "What purpose do you think you are here for if you do not believe in salvation"

These people are so afraid of the fact that, in the grander scheme of things, their lives are inconsequential and non-meaningful. It terrifies them to think that they are the product of a combination of scientific reactions. They cannot find meaning in their own lives as they live them, so they have to create an outside source of meaning as a comfort to them. They are so driven by this fear that they just chose to put blinders on when presented with logical information.

Well-said.

It also seems to be related to the "what if your mother had chosen abortion -- you wouldn't be here!" argument, which some seem to feel is so powerful. :roll:

It's true -- I wouldn't be here. Also, if my ancestors had stayed in Europe (and probably died), or one or both of my parents had not broken off their previous engagements, I wouldn't be here. If my mother had never met my father, or hadn't had a miscarriage shortly before getting pregnant with me, or had said "Oh, honey, I love you but I'm so sleepy" the night I was conceived, or. . . or . . .

The idea that I am alive due to a series of coincidences and natural processes doesn't do a thing to dull my enjoyment of being here or my wonder at the beauty of the world. I've made my life as meaningful as I can, by my work, how I treat others, etc.

The fact that I am statistically "insignificant" doesn't make me insignificant to myself and those around me. I don't need the promise of salvation to make my existence, and the existence of other people, matter.

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I wish someone had asked Ham if he literally believed a donkey talked instead of the OT rules one.

By the way, I was told growing up that before the Fall all the animals talked that is why Eve wasn't surprised that a snake talked to her. After the Fall animals began losing the ability to talk and that is why Baalaam wasn't that shocked when his donkey talked because some animals were still talking at that time. Now it is hard to believe that I actually used to believe that was true.

That sounds like something from Chronicles Of Narnia. I haven't read the series in a while, but wasn't there a bit about dumb animals once evil entered the world Aslan created?

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That sounds like something from Chronicles Of Narnia. I haven't read the series in a while, but wasn't there a bit about dumb animals once evil entered the world Aslan created?

I think that meant dumb as in cant speak, not dumb as in... Oh, you meant that. Nevermind.

Even before the evil, not all animals were meant to be talking ones. There's a scene where askan picks the ancestors if the talking beasts.

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Is he the one who looks like PP?

So...I am kinda depressed because I posted something about this on facebook, and have learned my sister and mom are creationists. Like WTF? I am ready to cry. (They are otherwise intelligent people.) They think God made the stars. :?

But haven't you heard? It took Him just a week to make the moon and stars, the sun and the earth and Jupiter and Mars.

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Where in the Bible does it say, "Okay everyone, in a few hundred years a Church which doesn't yet exist is going to compile all of our legends, teachings, and traditions into one manuscript, and you better believe that every. single. word of it is absolutely, 100%, scientifically FACTUAL." Your faith must be pretty shaky if you can't accept that parts of the Old Testament are obviously mythological and that that doesn't have to negate the stuff that you believe is factual. There's nothing in the Bible that says, "And on the seventh day God decreed that THE BIBLE would come into being, and that every word therein must be accepted as literal, scientific truth or you're all going to hell lol peace out."

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Where in the Bible does it say, "Okay everyone, in a few hundred years a Church which doesn't yet exist is going to compile all of our legends, teachings, and traditions into one manuscript, and you better believe that every. single. word of it is absolutely, 100%, scientifically FACTUAL." Your faith must be pretty shaky if you can't accept that parts of the Old Testament are obviously mythological and that that doesn't have to negate the stuff that you believe is factual. There's nothing in the Bible that says, "And on the seventh day God decreed that THE BIBLE would come into being, and that every word therein must be accepted as literal, scientific truth or you're all going to hell lol peace out."[/quote]

Well, some things just go without saying!

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In Genesis the sun is not created until the 4th "day". Let Ham explain creation in six 24 hour days when you have no way to even measure the passage of a day according to Genesis until 2/3 of your six "days" have passed.

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I am now annoyed at myself for not watching the debate but I honestly forgot about it.

It's still http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6kgvhG3AkIon YouTube, along with a video of "Post-debate answers Live with Ken Ham" if you're a glutton for punishment. I didn't watch the debate, but have saved the YT video in case I feel the urge to watch later.

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But haven't you heard? It took Him just a week to make the moon and stars, the sun and the earth and Jupiter and Mars.

I have not thought about that song in forever and now I have it stuck in my head. :lol:

When I first told my husband about being taught animals used to be able to talk for real he didn't believe me. He could not grasp how adults could not only believe that but teach it to children as the truth.

I also remember hearing how society might have been more advanced than our society before the flood because people lived hundreds of years and so they had more time to study and invent things. So the Jetson age of flying cars might have already come and gone. Even back then I would wonder why no one has ever found proof of this.

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There was one question that said if you believe that life could have been jump started by aliens, why can't you believe in God. First of all, there is absolutely no reason why you cannot accept science and evolution and still believe deeply in God (my father does). All it takes it not taking the bible literally. Second, I can turn the question around and ask if you believe in a supernatural being who created life on our planet, why couldn't you believe in aliens? In many ways, an alien source of life is much more believable than the earth was created 6,500 years ago in 6 days (with no sun till day 4).

Actually I was amazed at how incredibly easy it was to answer/dismiss the questions the creationists posed. I thought there would be much more of the fact twisting I'm used to seeing.

Oh, and what was the point about noetics?

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It's the same argument as the one that evolution demands a social darwinist ethic. It doesn't, but even if it did, it's inconsequential to whether evolution is fact.

What kills me is that these people subscribe to social darwinism. You're poor? Sucks to be you? Not enough scholarships for everyone to go to college? Make sure you beat out the others! Only the deeply driven can pull themselves out of poverty, where those who were born to money don't have to work nearly as hard, and it's all part of God's Divine Plan.

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I have not thought about that song in forever and now I have it stuck in my head. :lol:

When I first told my husband about being taught animals used to be able to talk for real he didn't believe me. He could not grasp how adults could not only believe that but teach it to children as the truth.

I also remember hearing how society might have been more advanced than our society before the flood because people lived hundreds of years and so they had more time to study and invent things. So the Jetson age of flying cars might have already come and gone. Even back then I would wonder why no one has ever found proof of this.

I knew you would get the reference! :D

My husband and I often talk about my upbringing. When I tell him what I was taught, he seriously has a "WTF?!?" look on his face. It really is hard for people to understand unless you have been brought up it that enviroment.

I swear you and I have so much in common because I remember being taught the same thing about advancement. I remember being told they had all the advancements we have now and more. My dad even said Noah had a cb radio or some other jazz like that. Why would Noah need a cb radio if everyone outside of his boat companions died in the flood? :lol: "Breaker, breaker 1-9. We got a smokey in a plain brown wrapper up ahead."

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Katie Botkin has weighed in on the debate: kbotkin.com/2014/02/05/ken-ham-and-bill-nye-revisited/

Clearly, she is saying "Thanks but no thanks" to the Dominionist Kool-Aid, again and again.

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I hate that you were also raised in Religious Crazy Town Mecca, but it is nice to find other people who can understand what it is like to have been raised to believe bizarre stories are true. My husband was a Christmas/Easter Christian so he just cannot understand how people take all that seriously.

I'm actually surprised Ken didn't bring up that Noah could have built a wooden boat that floated for a year because they had better technology than we do now plus he spent 120 years building it. That was a common argument that I have heard to explain why we currently find that a boat of that size would not float.

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