Bill Nye and Ken Ham Creation/Evolution Debate

[Stephanie66]

So this happened.

I am not sure about encouraging her with hits, but...it's a very uninformed young woman's response to Bill Nye, correcting him in the most illiterate fashion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45qf6XRfVeg

[formergothardite]

So this happened.

I am not sure about encouraging her with hits, but...it's a very uninformed young woman's response to Bill Nye, correcting him in the most illiterate fashion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45qf6XRfVeg

Oh my. Bless her. She tried but she obviously did not even understand what Bill Nye was saying.

[feministing]

I watched the debate last night and I was surprised with Ham. I expected him to come up with answers on why he believed that there is a young earth but instead all he pulled was the "Historical Science" and "Observational Science". Does his brain really pull the "If he haven't seen it in our life time. there is no point looking at clues in the current time to try and find out what happened previously" thought. For a man who has spent his life campaigning for creation, I expected better answers.

I also thought that his response to what he would need to disprove his theory that God created the world as shown in Genesis very revealing. He very simply put it that it would be impossible and that he is absolutely right and could not be wrong. That shows that he is not a scientist and does not understand science.

It was the first time that I have ever seen Bill Nye and I like him. You could tell that he is use to speaking to the general population about science so that is would be understandable to the general population. While I thought at times that Bill may have lacked some on very specifics (I don't think that he is an evolutionist) he would be able relate to the general public's understanding. If they had gotten another evolutionist, ie an academic, the specifics and complex science may have bogged down the talk.

I enjoyed it but I really did think that the creation theory had more"evidence" as crazy as that evidence would seem to me

What "evidence" did Ham provide other than "it's in the bible"?

[yewnique]

So this happened.

I am not sure about encouraging her with hits, but...it's a very uninformed young woman's response to Bill Nye, correcting him in the most illiterate fashion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45qf6XRfVeg

Wow! I was trying to work out how old she is (I guessed about 13/14) and then she said something about being cured from cancer when she was 14 and has been remission for five years now, which would make her 19!

I am stunned!

[Meeka]

What "evidence" did Ham provide other than "it's in the bible"?

Ham didn't provide any evidence other than that there is a book (The Bible) that tells us the history of the earth. I just found it odd that he offered up nothing and maybe that was because there was nothing to offer

[yewnique]

What "evidence" did Ham provide other than "it's in the bible"?

None that I could gather.

Several times Bill Nye stated that one of the strengths of science is its ability to make predictions about the future based on what we observe today. He asked repeatedly for Ken Ham to provide some predictions that Creationists make. Ken Ham did not provide any.

Ham did cast doubt on dating methods, saying that 90% of dating methods we have conclude that the earth is not millions of years old. But, that is not providing evidence that the earth is therefore only six thousand years old.

[yewnique]

Ham didn't provide any evidence other than that there is a book (The Bible) that tells us the history of the earth. I just found it odd that he offered up nothing and maybe that was because there was nothing to offer

That is correct. None of us were there so we cannot observe it. However, God has told us in the Bible and that is where we must look for answers. We need to trust God's infallible word and not man's fallible reasoning.

[Stephanie66]

Even when Ham was disputing the dating methods, he said that the wood was analyzed to be 45,000 years old. That's still not 6,000 years old.

So, maybe the dating methods are off by a few million years...that doesn't explain why no fossils ever cross over or jump ahead. And Ham had a cool fossil of a fish eating another fish, then carried on about animals being vegetarian until "after the flood." So a fish eating a fish is not being vegetarian. Is he saying the fossil is under 4,000 years old? Because that would be ridiculous.

I am truly worried for the future. Entire states no longer teach evolution in public schools.

[formergothardite]

I wish someone had asked Ham if he literally believed a donkey talked instead of the OT rules one.

By the way, I was told growing up that before the Fall all the animals talked that is why Eve wasn't surprised that a snake talked to her. After the Fall animals began losing the ability to talk and that is why Baalaam wasn't that shocked when his donkey talked because some animals were still talking at that time. Now it is hard to believe that I actually used to believe that was true.

[Mecca]

So this happened.

I am not sure about encouraging her with hits, but...it's a very uninformed young woman's response to Bill Nye, correcting him in the most illiterate fashion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45qf6XRfVeg

Yikes. What was that? Could she be more wrong? It always amazes me when people like this youtuber forget that it was science that helped in her fight against cancer.

[docmom]

That is correct. None of us were there so we cannot observe it. However, God has told us in the Bible and that is where we must look for answers. We need to trust God's infallible word and not man's fallible reasoning.

But that doesn't explain anything at all. We know that there isn't enough water in the world (remember the water cycle- what we have is what we have??) to cover the entire world. We know it simply isn't feasible to build a boat that would be able to float and to hold thousands of species of animals. We know that evolution occurs in bacteria and viruses ALL.THE.TIME. Where are the answers to these conundrums in the bible? If god is revealing himself to us through his creation, why aren't we looking at said creation? If god gave us inquiring minds and set out a whole bunch of clues, why does he expect us to ignore them? Sorry, but just saying "because it's in a book" doesn't cut it for me and for a whole lot of other people.

[Mecca]

I wish someone had asked Ham if he literally believed a donkey talked instead of the OT rules one.

By the way, I was told growing up that before the Fall all the animals talked that is why Eve wasn't surprised that a snake talked to her. After the Fall animals began losing the ability to talk and that is why Baalaam wasn't that shocked when his donkey talked because some animals were still talking at that time. Now it is hard to believe that I actually used to believe that was true.

I was told the same thing. One of the worst whippings I ever recieved from my father was when I questioned his take on evolution. I happened to be about ten years old and did it in front of some of his congregation. Aw, the good ol' days.

[ThisOlGirl]

Nothing to see here.

[debrand]

I am now annoyed at myself for not watching the debate but I honestly forgot about it.

It annoys me that many people seem to assume that creationists' minds are set. The first challenge to their belief will not change their mind and many will actively search for reasons not to change. All that needs to happen is for a creationist to begin to doubt a little. Science has room for questions and doubts, literal creationism does not.

Logic changed my former, more right leaning self. There wasn't a single idea that enlightened me in an instance. It took a long time of listening to the other side before I changed. So, a person with a large ego will find debating creationists/right wing thinkers very defeating. No one will credit anyone with changing their point of view but over time someone's opinion can change.

[debrand]

I wish someone had asked Ham if he literally believed a donkey talked instead of the OT rules one.

By the way, I was told growing up that before the Fall all the animals talked that is why Eve wasn't surprised that a snake talked to her. After the Fall animals began losing the ability to talk and that is why Baalaam wasn't that shocked when his donkey talked because some animals were still talking at that time. Now it is hard to believe that I actually used to believe that was true.

That makes me wonder how literal creationists can eat meat. If I thought that animals had the ability to not just talk, I would never eat bacon again.

[Trynn]

I am now annoyed at myself for not watching the debate but I honestly forgot about it.

It annoys me that many people seem to assume that creationists' minds are set. The first challenge to their belief will not change their mind and many will actively search for reasons not to change. All that needs to happen is for a creationist to begin to doubt a little. Science has room for questions and doubts, literal creationism does not.

Logic changed my former, more right leaning self. There wasn't a single idea that enlightened me in an instance. It took a long time of listening to the other side before I changed. So, a person with a large ego will find debating creationists/right wing thinkers very defeating. No one will credit anyone with changing their point of view but over time someone's opinion can change.

And the truth is, a lot of people are going to be thinking the same thing only in reverse; that Ham could've planted a tiny seed of doubt and with many more seeds, it will grow.

I heard that all the time in evangelism classes.

[Stephanie66]

I wish someone had asked Ham if he literally believed a donkey talked instead of the OT rules one.

By the way, I was told growing up that before the Fall all the animals talked that is why Eve wasn't surprised that a snake talked to her. After the Fall animals began losing the ability to talk and that is why Baalaam wasn't that shocked when his donkey talked because some animals were still talking at that time. Now it is hard to believe that I actually used to believe that was true.

Like in "Wicked"?

[uber frau]

That makes me wonder how literal creationists can eat meat. If I thought that animals had the ability to not just talk, I would never eat bacon again.

But that was before the fall. Before the fall there was no death. Everyone was vegetarian, including the tigers.

After the fall, God did his best work. He redesigned the ecosystem to depend on things breaking down and being recycled, he have tigers teeth to tear meat and guts to digest it (before that they all had 4 stomachs and 12 molars like a cow) and spiders started making webs to catch flies (or perhaps they were just catching dandelion fluff before that). All the scavengers the other high order predators had makeovers too. And then he created blowflies and all the bacteria that break down meat and animal flesh.

He also mucked about with the laws of physics after the flood. Before that, white light hitting a prism didn't separate into different colours. :cray-cray:

After the fall God commanded humanity to have dominion-to slash, burn, rape, pillage,control nature. Manly men must hunt for anacondas and shoot those polar bears, and impregnate your brood mares with as many children as she can produce. And eat their lamb chops.

[Ralar]

A Reporter asked 22 self-identifying creationists at the Bill Nye/Ken Ham debate to write a message/question/note to the other side. Here’s what they wrote:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/messages-from-creationists-to-people-who-believe-in-evolutio?bffb

Example:

[anjulibai]

A Reporter asked 22 self-identifying creationists at the Bill Nye/Ken Ham debate to write a message/question/note to the other side. Here’s what they wrote:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/messages-from-creationists-to-people-who-believe-in-evolutio?bffb

Example:

[attachment=0]creation.JPG[/attachment]

I had to stop reading when someone wrote that a theory was not testable or observable. Oy.

[debrand]

Maybe we can go through that list of 22 questions and answer them. Granted, many are very stupid such as the one about the earth being created already mature. Why the hell would a divine being create an old earth?

[Swamptribe]

A Reporter asked 22 self-identifying creationists at the Bill Nye/Ken Ham debate to write a message/question/note to the other side. Here’s what they wrote:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/messages-from-creationists-to-people-who-believe-in-evolutio?bffb

Oh Myyyyy, so much fail. Did these people sleep through science class? Do they even understand their own questions?

[LeopardLady]

A Reporter asked 22 self-identifying creationists at the Bill Nye/Ken Ham debate to write a message/question/note to the other side. Here’s what they wrote:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/messages-from-creationists-to-people-who-believe-in-evolutio?bffb

These responses really make me wish I could talk to some of these people one on one for a little bit. I know it probably wouldn't change most of their minds but...most of these questions really do have simple answers.

[uber frau]

Oh Myyyyy, so much fail. Did these people sleep through science class? Do they even understand their own questions?

I think the honest answer to this is "No." Most of them seemed to fall into one of two categories; either they used a big word and thought that meant they knew stuff, or they appealed to emotions (I can't imagine a world without a divine creator, so the Genesis creation story must be literal truth).

)

[formergothardite]

1. Bill Nye are you influencing the minds of children in a positive way? Yes he is.

2. Are you scared of a Divine Creator? Pretty sure he isn't.

3. Is it completely illogical that the earth was created mature? i.e. trees created with rings Adam created as an adult? Yes. It is totally illogical.

4. Does not the second law of thermodynamics disprove evolution. Nope http://biologos.org/questions/evolution ... second-law

5. How do you explain the sunset if their is no God? :cray-cray: The earth rotates on its axis. It makes one turn every 24 hours. As it turns some of the earth is in the light, some in the dark. The sun gives the appearance of rising and setting, but it is really just the earth turning.

6. If the Big Bang theory is true and taught as science along with evolution why does they laws of thermodynamics debunk said theories. They don't.

7What about Noetics. What about them?

8. How do you derive objective meaning in life? It is pretty easy actually. You don't live for the after life, you live for life.

9. If God did not create everything how did the first single celled organism originate? By chance? As Bill said, we don't know at this point, but it doesn't mean that we won't eventually find the answer. An answer that most likely won't include Ken Ham's creation story.

10. I believe in the big bang. God said BANG and it happened. Fuck it I give up. I'm not even going to read the rest.