I Fired God.

[nana sew dear]

You can watch the entire 20/20 episode on Tina Anderson on Youtube.

[Dandruff]

Looks like there's a copy at my local library! I'm going to stop by this afternoon and see if I can get it.:)

[Palimpsest]

O.K., I just finished it. I'd recommend it, with a pinch of salt for Jocelyn's actual advocacy work.

Quick reactions rather than a review:

* Major trigger warning on child abuse and sexual abuse.

* She uses IFB as we use Fundie - as a catch-all phrase - so also covers Gothard, Pearl, Maxwell, and VF, etc.

* A good overview of all the main players in the IFB and Bob Jones University from personal experience.

* Like the way she outs all those honorary "doctorates."

* Her descriptions of the control, sanctioned and encouraged child abuse, and lack of education ring very true.

* I believe her personal abuse story and descriptions of her own family dynamics. Dad = very bad person.

* I believe that higher up people trying to leave the cult do get pursued and persecuted like that.

Where the book really falls apart is towards the end after she has left the IFB when she becomes the shining star of her own saga. You'd think that she was the only person ever to speak out. I know she isn't. I got very tired of her blowing her own horn and tend to agree that she is a narcissist.

A quick google gave me Jeri Massi's review of the book. I think she is trying to be fair in her actual review and I agree that the book is an excellent expose of IFB. OTOH, Jeri Massi didn't give me hard evidence on Jocelyn's (alleged) mismanagement of Tina Anderson's fund, or how she (allegedly) managed to alienate so many people. Apparently the Facebook group where all this happened no longer exists.

Squabbles among survivors and advocates are not uncommon. Unfortunately public squabbles detract from many of the important things survivors have to say.

[apple1]

Palimpsest,

I tend to agree with most of what you just said; there are a couple of things that I cannot say whether I agree or disagree; no biggie.

I was a member of one of the FB groups where a bunch of the crap happened. That particular group still exists, albeit without Jocelyn, but replacement admins deleted massive amounts of postings and it always was a "private" group whose postings were not visible to non-members, and I also have not participated in it (unrelated to Jocelyn) for quite a while.

Thanks for a fair review.

PS - I do tend to agree with most of Jeri Massi's statements; she as a general rule (and I have interacted with her significantly in the past on a couple of internet venues) does not make statements without evidence. Sometimes she could be more diplomatic. Another aside: Jeri has done a lot to help certain groups of survivors, without financial benefit to herself.

[bookgirl14]

I read this book. I thought that her experiences while she was in IFB were very detailed and helped me understand better of "fundie" life. However once she left, I felt that the book did drag on because it turned into a me-me-me situation. Honestly I started to skim once that happened.

[thoughtful]

I found this thread via a search, because I just finished reading the book.

I agree that the story affirms a lot of what we discuss here, which means much of it might be old news to those who have read a lot at FJ (although still of interest). But it would be a revelation to anyone who thinks these groups are just nice Christian folk.

I found the end less interesting, as well, but not at the point where they left the IFB -- I think the stories of what the leaders and her father tried to do are an important part of the big picture.

It was when she got less autobiographical and started generalizing, telling others' stories, and prescribing how to fix things that it got dull for me, but that may be because I read FJ. A more general audience may need the point driven home that it wasn't just one woman's story, in those last few chapters.

Focus on her positive actions didn't bother me - the whole book is autobiographical, and that's part of the story. And she does give lots of praise and credit to others.

I do see a lot of "I was the victim/hero/the one who was there when it happened" in her stories. Having known someone whose narcissistic tendencies often expressed themselves that way, I do see what others are saying, especially if they've encountered her in person or on public media and she is like that. But, assuming what's in the book is true, she often really was a victim, needed to act to save herself or others, or witnessed things happening to others. So I reserve judgement on that, having never interacted with her.

I do think the book really needed better editing, to be tighter and shorter, but also for errors. In Chapter Four (pg. 52), it says Doug Wilson (not Phillips) founded Vision Forum -- later in the book, it is clear that she knows which is which, but nobody caught that. On one of the picture captions, her mother and sister's names are reversed. The pictures are oddly scattered, not chronological, and some of the captions don't make things any clearer.

She makes a big deal out the of the phoniness of the fundie education, which I like. But I do wish she'd made her point about honorary doctorates, then referred to those men just by their names, instead of always writing "Dr." Firstname Lastname to remind the reader that he had a useless degree. It just added to the clutter.

[Howl]

For those interested in this topic, I'd recommend Bruce Gerencser's blog, The Way Forward. Bruce was an IFB pastor for 25 years, but "fell away" from the faith and now has a humanist/atheist perspective. Interestingly, his wife began having doubts about their faith about the same time that Bruce did, and their marriage has survived intact.

He has interesting insights on how the IFB churches work at the grass roots level from his many years in the ministry.

[Naga Viper]

Every time this thread resurfaces, I get the Clash stuck in my head for a week. ("I fired God and the law won.")

[Howl]

Every time this thread resurfaces, I get the Clash stuck in my head for a week. ("I fired God and the law won.")

Good ear bug! Love The Clash.