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ATI vs VF, or, Calvinism vs Baptist


fullmetalheart

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Minijumb - I actually have heard of Phil Pringle! I saw some of his books in Christian books stores back when I was campaigning against TTUaC being sold in Australia. I've never actually come across any Aussie baptists before. I've been tempted for a while to check out the local Baptist church because I'm quite interested to see where the stand in terms of doctrine. I'm from Adelaide and we have SO many churches here that the rarity of Baptist churches has always stuck out to me. I know of more 7th Day Adventist churches than Baptist churches here.

Uber Frau: Thank you for your perspective and your offer. I'll look for the book, it sounds like a very interesting read.

Debrand: I've heard that about Baptist churches. Congregations here are pretty laid back in my experience. They're welcoming but they don't go out of your way to win you over to them.

Thank you very much for the responses.

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IME, that's a very common argument in Calvinism. It's the ultimate thought-stopper and it works very well indeed.

And at least among the Calvinists of my acquaintance, emotional intensity is a sign that a person's analytical brain has stopped working. So provoking their opponents to the shouty stage is a great way to discredit any differing accounts of history and theology. If you care too much, you automatically lose. It's obnoxious.

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And at least among the Calvinists of my acquaintance, emotional intensity is a sign that a person's analytical brain has stopped working. So provoking their opponents to the shouty stage is a great way to discredit any differing accounts of history and theology. If you care too much, you automatically lose. It's obnoxious.

Rachel,I started to bring up that online Calvinists seem to equate emotion with being wrong. It is strange. They don't seem to realize that a person can be quite outwardly emotional in their demeanor and still be right. Outward calmness doesn't mean that a person is being logical either. I've also noticed that some Calvinists think that any argument that disagrees with their viewpoint must have an emotional(Therefore wrong) basis especially if it comes from a female.

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And at least among the Calvinists of my acquaintance, emotional intensity is a sign that a person's analytical brain has stopped working. So provoking their opponents to the shouty stage is a great way to discredit any differing accounts of history and theology. If you care too much, you automatically lose. It's obnoxious.

THIS I tell my husband he would make a great Vulcan.

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This is somewhat off-topic but hopefully on-topic enough not to be terribly annoying: I'm really interested in learning about the theological and historical differences between various sects of Protestant Christianity, but I don't have any idea where to start. You guys all seem to be fairly well-versed in these areas - any suggestions on books or websites for someone who's just beginning to get her feet wet in learning about Protestantism? (If it helps, I'm a grad student at an R1 university, so even if you recommend fairly specialized books, articles, etc. I should be able to track them down in the library.)

I'm mostly trying to bump this question so you can get suggestions from more knowledgeable members. But maybe some of Justo L. Gonzalez works would cover this stuff. I'm thinking of reading his two-volume "Story of Christianity" to fill in some of my gaps.

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I'm mostly trying to bump this question so you can get suggestions from more knowledgeable members. But maybe some of Justo L. Gonzalez works would cover this stuff. I'm thinking of reading his two-volume "Story of Christianity" to fill in some of my gaps.

I got most of my knowledge from my Intro to Christianity class in college. The book they're currently using for that course is An Introduction to Christian Theology by Justo Gonzalez

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  • 3 years later...

Just saw this article discussing the trauma that some religions can cause;

Quote

At age sixteen I began what would be a four year struggle with bulimia.  When the symptoms started, I turned in desperation to adults who knew more than I did about how to stop shameful behavior—my Bible study leader and a visiting youth minister.  “If you ask anything in faith, believing,” they said.  “It will be done.” I knew they were quoting the Word of God. We prayed together, and I went home confident that God had heard my prayers.

But my horrible compulsions didn’t go away. By the fall of my sophomore year in college, I was desperate and depressed enough that I made a suicide attempt. The problem wasn’t just the bulimia.  I was convinced by then that I was a complete spiritual failure. My college counseling department had offered to get me real help (which they later did). But to my mind, at that point, such help couldn’t fix the core problem: I was a failure in the eyes of God. It would be years before I understood that my inability to heal bulimia through the mechanisms offered by biblical Christianity was not a function of my own spiritual deficiency but deficiencies in Evangelical religion itself.

Dr. Marlene Winell is a human development consultant in the San Francisco Area. She is also the daughter of Pentecostal missionaries. This combination has given her work an unusual focus. For the past twenty years she has counseled men and women in recovery from various forms of fundamentalist religion including the Assemblies of God denomination in which she was raised. Winell is the author of Leaving the Fold – A Guide for Former Fundamentalists and Others Leaving their Religion, written during her years of private practice in psychology. Over the years, Winell has provided assistance to clients whose religious experiences were even more damaging than mine. Some of them are people whose psychological symptoms weren’t just exacerbated by their religion, but actually caused by it.

Two years ago, Winell made waves by formally labeling what she calls “Religious Trauma Syndrome” (RTS) and beginning to write and speak on the subject for professional audiences. When the British Association of Behavioral and Cognitive Psychologists published a series of articles on the topic, members of a Christian counseling association protested what they called excessive attention to a “relatively niche topic.” One commenter said, “A religion, faith or book cannot be abuse but the people interpreting can make anything abusive.”

 

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This is so necessary. I can't wait to see what research on religious trauma and spiritual abuse looks like in 10 or 20 years.

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We definitely need more therapists in the US who are specially trained in spiritual abuse and ptsd, which is something Cynthia Jeub echoed in her Q&A. I've searched in 2 different large cities and it was almost impossible to find someone with experience in that field. Take note, aspiring psychologists!

 

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