Who wants to 'adopt' a disabled embryo? (No Greater Joy Mom)

[chaotic life]

Even when I was fundie, thought embryo adoption is just such a SCAM. People donate their left over embryos all the time, and people use donated embryos just as frequently. So, you don't have to do an "adoption" to get viable embryos when you have known already. Also, given the high fatality rates of unfreezing those suckers, it's not generally like you are actually going to see a child out of the effort, especially with just one or two embryos.

However, these embryo adoption agencies require you to do a full homestudy and often come with at least a semi-open stipulation. Nightlight Christian Adoption is the FORERUNNER of these so-called adoptions. Nightlight is notorious at this point. They are at the center of the scandal of stealing Native children for SC families. They won Veronica's abduction by taking it all the way to the Supreme Court and are currently holding Desirae hostage in SC despite the fact that SC CPS took custody of the infant because the would be adopters that Nightlight placed her in lost custody after adult children alleged abuse of the infant. .

So, there isn't exactly a record of ethics with the agencies that do this insane adoption nonsense.

Then too, these are not living breathing children. So, Adeye is advocating for someone to implant an embryo with a known genetic condition, in the hopes it will in fact survive the process, and as a bonus that "saint" can also have a healthy baby, also if that embryo survives the process.

Does no one catch the reality that Nadia Suleman's predicament of having EIGHT babies came about because her doctor routinely implanted 6-10 embryos and he had almost never seen more than twins/triplets. Ethically, doctors aren't supposed to be implanting more than 2-3 because of the risk of high order mutliples. But, the reality is that high order multiples do not typically result from IVF procedures but ovulation stimulating hormones, in part because even someone as unethical as that doctor will not see a lot of the babies actually STICK.

It's BIZARRE that she's doing this.

[Marianne]

While reading this, I'm remembering why I stopped biology 16. I don't understand HOW it is possible to adopt an embryo.

[August]

My period certainly feels like someone's being murdered.

[snarkopolis]

Soooo, if there is a power outage at the embryo refrigeration holding facility is it murder (because all those heathen cityfolk running their air conditioners and laptops watching Youtube) or an act of God? Hmmmmm.

[tigerchild]

Soooo, if there is a power outage at the embryo refrigeration holding facility is it murder (because all those heathen cityfolk running their air conditioners and laptops watching Youtube) or an act of God? Hmmmmm.

Or should the power company that did not immediately run over with a generator be listed as compliant with mass murder for not immediately attempting to save the thousands of lives that were destroyed as a result. :roll:

[twinmama]

Soooo, if there is a power outage at the embryo refrigeration holding facility is it murder (because all those heathen cityfolk running their air conditioners and laptops watching Youtube) or an act of God? Hmmmmm.

As someone who has done IVF and gone through the insane stress of the 4 days my embryos were growing in a dish at the doctor's office before transfer, OMG the idea of a power failure at the facility is making me twitchy! Seriously those 4 days were more stressful than the entire rest of the cycle.

Though I'll go with act of god (who I don't believe in anyway).

And you can adopt an embryo because they are created and then cultured in a dish for 2-5 days, then either frozen and stored or transferred into the woman's uterus. If they're frozen, they can later be thawed and transferred or I guess adopted by someone else and transferred into her instead. If I remember correctly, storing embryos is CRAZY expensive. My RE told me it was like $1500 the first year and $600 every year afterwards. I was so afraid my IVF wouldn't take that I would have done it, had we had any embryos left (we did not, and IVF did take).

[Minerva]

I have known one religious couple - although not fundie - who went through IVF and successfully had twins and a singleton. In order to avoid destroying the remaining four embryos, they had them transferred during the point in her cycle where there would be an almost zero chance of them implanting - letting nature take its course, essentially.

Hmm. Wonder if the "personhood from fertilization" crowd would be ok with a form of birth control that left your uterine lining intact, but made any breakthrough ovulations happen in time for the "almost zero chance of implantation" point of your cycle.

[bettertomarry]

Hey, my wife and I are trying to have a baby right now. We'd be open to adopting embryos. Oh, you don't take lesbian applications? Think of the baybez!

[Full enough quiver]

Why in the world would anyone want to deliberately bring a child into the world that has a genetic abnormality? Especially in fundie circles, who are obsessed with gender and gender roles, Kleinfelters would actually be pretty awful for a boy to live with. I'm not saying that people with special needs don't have lives worth living. If I got pregnant the old fashioned way, I would absolutely love and accept any child I got, boy or girl, healthy or special needs. But given a choice in the matter, such as with embryo "adoption", I'd choose a healthy baby girl. Fundies always seem so focused on "rescuing a child" that they don't give any thought to what the child's life would actually be like, or whether he or she will be a good fit in their family or community. I wonder if she'd be so concerned about these embryos if gay could be detected genetically. Would they still deserve a chance at life? Ironically enough, the best chance at a good life for the special needs one, would be in one of our liberal, feminist, heathen homes.

[uber frau]

Or should the power company that did not immediately run over with a generator be listed as compliant with mass murder for not immediately attempting to save the thousands of lives that were destroyed as a result. :roll:

Does anyone else remember mad effort to save the "Snowflake Babies" after Katrina? Not like there were any living, breathing creatures in need of help or anything.

[lawlifelgbt]

@bettertomarry: Do you want one, and my PARTNER will take the other?

I mean, it's practically inevitable that if you believe life begins at conception and every potential life deserves a family, that you'll end up bearing/creating so many children that, unless you want Romania, you're going to have to allow same-sex parents. I mean, create tons more kids, then ban 5-10% of the population from raising them? Doesn't work, IMO.

[nolongerIFBx]

Hey, my wife and I are trying to have a baby right now. We'd be open to adopting embryos. Oh, you don't take lesbian applications? Think of the baybez!

Have you checked out Miracles Waiting?

[lilah]

While reading this, I'm remembering why I stopped biology 16. I don't understand HOW it is possible to adopt an embryo.

When people do IVF they take several eggs and sperm and fertilize them in a petri dish and then implant them back in the woman's uterus. Usualy they will harvest a bunch of eggs to make sure at least one or two embryos are viable. Since ethically you can't implant more than 2-3 at at time (for risk of having high multiples like Octomom or Kate Gosslin) the doctors can store the embryos for future use.

Now if you suceed at IVF and have your baby or babies you might decide that you're done having kids (and of course IVF is quite expensive) so then you might end up with leftover embryos that right to lifers want put up for adoption, becuase those embryos hanging out in a freezer need a loving family far more than the tens of thousands of living children who are in foster care and need families.

[bookgirl14]

J'chelle? Did you hear about this?

Please don't let her stumble upon this blog. She might think this is the call to adoption she's been waiting for.

Though seriously, shouldn't the woman in the comments be grateful for any child regardless of gender?

[Mama Mia]

Though seriously, shouldn't the woman in the comments be grateful for any child regardless of gender?

pssttt....I 'll let you in on a secret.....lots of people who comment on the Internet are batshit crazy :cray-cray:

[EyeQueue]

I once met a man with KFS. He was an engineer. He was on the short side, but nothing about him screamed "Disabled!"

My cousin has KFS. I believe it was diagnosed when he was in his early 20s. There always seemed to be something "off" about him, but I chalked it up to his mom (my aunt) being totally overprotective while he was growing up, so any immature behaviors I attributed to that. Like both his mother and father, he is extremely small, with a slight build, and never really seemed to hit puberty. I believe both his father and brother also have KFS.

He's now in his early 30s, and has apparently had tons of problems. He has a very hard time holding down a job: at first, the family thought it was because the hormone therapy he was on would make him go into extreme rages, but now his mom is starting to admit it's because he has a diminished mental capacity. There are also other symptoms, like his teeth rotting out (since KFS affects bones/teeth), so he had to have all of his teeth pulled and now has dentures at age 30something.

So, he's not "disabled" per se, but definitely has a hard time, and I hope I don't sound cruel, but it's definitely not a life I would want to lead. He hasn't really had a solid relationship with anyone (and really wants one), is now living with his mom, and is just all-around having a difficult time, since his work options, etc. are kind of limited.

I don't see why these religious types would want to set someone up for potentially living this kind of life. :?

[bookgirl14]

pssttt....I 'll let you in on a secret.....lots of people who comment on the Internet are batshit crazy :cray-cray:

I'm learning this the more time I spend on FJ.

[uber frau]

My cousin has KFS. I believe it was diagnosed when he was in his early 20s. There always seemed to be something "off" about him, but I chalked it up to his mom (my aunt) being totally overprotective while he was growing up, so any immature behaviors I attributed to that. Like both his mother and father, he is extremely small, with a slight build, and never really seemed to hit puberty. I believe both his father and brother also have KFS.

He's now in his early 30s, and has apparently had tons of problems. He has a very hard time holding down a job: at first, the family thought it was because the hormone therapy he was on would make him go into extreme rages, but now his mom is starting to admit it's because he has a diminished mental capacity. There are also other symptoms, like his teeth rotting out (since KFS affects bones/teeth), so he had to have all of his teeth pulled and now has dentures at age 30something.

So, he's not "disabled" per se, but definitely has a hard time, and I hope I don't sound cruel, but it's definitely not a life I would want to lead. He hasn't really had a solid relationship with anyone (and really wants one), is now living with his mom, and is just all-around having a difficult time, since his work options, etc. are kind of limited.

I don't see why these religious types would want to set someone up for potentially living this kind of life. :?

KFS has a very wide of effects. Some ppl are very badly affected, some hardly at all. It's pretty difficult to understand the full implications when you're looking at a baby, let alone a multi-celled zygote in a petri-dish.

[Stephanie66]

If his own parents chose not to implant him, why should random strangers?

[Hane]

KFS has a very wide of effects. Some ppl are very badly affected, some hardly at all. It's pretty difficult to understand the full implications when you're looking at a baby, let alone a multi-celled zygote in a petri-dish.

True. The man I met had a beard, was gainfully employed, had a completely "normal"-seeming personality, and was happily married.

A friend's sister learned that the fetus she was carrying had Turner Syndrome (lack of all or part of the second X chromosome), and chose to terminate the pregnancy, for fear of having a profoundly disabled child. I didn't mention the fact that one of my daughter's college classmates had TS, and seemed to be capable of living a productive life.

[LaLele]

I have a family friend with KFS. You wouldn't know anything was off by looking at him. He is a manager of a water distribution company, no cognitive problems. The only reason he found out was when he and his wife were trying to conceive they had problems. Enter genetic testing, and they found out the cause of their fertility problems was KFS.

[JesusFightClub]

My cousin has Turner Syndrome - she's pretty short (but so are all my family), can't have babies and she's had a few other medical problems too, but no learning difficulties I know of.

All of these syndromes can manifest in a small way or a big way, but you do not know what you're going to get. It's a bit like the Down's Syndrome issue - the "pro-lifers" will bleat on endlessly about the handful of people with Down's who go to college and become sports stars etc, but that's not the reality for the vast majority of kids with DS.

[EyeQueue]

KFS has a very wide of effects. Some ppl are very badly affected, some hardly at all. It's pretty difficult to understand the full implications when you're looking at a baby, let alone a multi-celled zygote in a petri-dish.

Very true. I guess I was trying to say what Stephanie66 says above: why wasn't this couple then OK with playing the odds on this, instead of wanting someone else to adopt a potentially "disabled" embryo? ("Disabled" here meaning wherever along the potential spectrum of KFS that the child might end up falling).

Edited for grammar.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

My cousin has Turner Syndrome - she's pretty short (but so are all my family), can't have babies and she's had a few other medical problems too, but no learning difficulties I know of.

All of these syndromes can manifest in a small way or a big way, but you do not know what you're going to get. It's a bit like the Down's Syndrome issue - the "pro-lifers" will bleat on endlessly about the handful of people with Down's who go to college and become sports stars etc, but that's not the reality for the vast majority of kids with DS.

This - and it's one thing when you are already pregnant with the fetus (just through "regular" sex and there's only the one in there) and you find out it has an abnormality, but quite another when you've got a few embryos there in the petri dish to CHOOSE from and you know in advance that one of them has an abnormality and the others don't. You are ALREADY going to choose.

And as loads of people already posted, just ask the biomom - why didn't SHE choose this one?

[uber frau]

Exactly. When prenatal testing picks something up, all the parents are trying to do is take the best of a bunch of shitty options. Sometimes it works out better than others, but it's not a decision anyone wants to have to make. If you believe in the argument that life begins at conception, why would you deliberately make the choice to implant a healthy zygote over the one with a diagnosis? If you believe that a zygote should have the same right to life as every other human, then you should be protecting the one which has the least chance of being adopted by another couple. Anything else would be wrong.