Who wants to 'adopt' a disabled embryo? (No Greater Joy Mom)

[Cheetah]

Haven't seen anyone comment on this blog post yet... Adeye from No Greater Joy posted the other day about a family who has 2 leftover embryos. Both are boys, one of them has Klinefelter Syndrome. Adeye is adamant that these embryos are as needy of a good family as actual live children.

nogreaterjoymom.com/2013/12/an-unusual-request-could-it-be-your.html#disqus_thread

Oh, these are a 2-for-1 deal... if you take the healthy embryo, you have to also take the brother.

If you read the post, make sure to read the comments. One commenter seems kinda off her rocker... she can't carry a child herself but is desperate for a daughter... would take the embryos except that she has already decorated the nursery for a girl and purchased a ton of girl clothes, many of them monogrammed. Um, wow.

[JMarie]

Haven't seen anyone comment on this blog post yet... Adeye from No Greater Joy posted the other day about a family who has 2 leftover embryos. Both are boys, one of them has Klinefelter Syndrome. Adeye is adamant that these embryos are as needy of a good family as actual live children.

nogreaterjoymom.com/2013/12/an-unusual-request-could-it-be-your.html#disqus_thread

Oh, these are a 2-for-1 deal... if you take the healthy embryo, you have to also take the brother.

If you read the post, make sure to read the comments. One commenter seems kinda off her rocker... she can't carry a child herself but is desperate for a daughter... would take the embryos except that she has already decorated the nursery for a girl and purchased a ton of girl clothes, many of them monogrammed. Um, wow.

(in my best SNL Church Lady voice) And would that name be... Auuuuuuubrey?

[Dysfundamental]

Klinefelter doesn't necessarily result in disability, though cognitive and developmental impairments can accompany other manifestations of the chromosomal anomaly in some people who have it.

[Stephanie66]

The comment was...interesting. I bet birth moms thinking of adoption would be scared off...plus, talk about a baby being born with an agenda. What if she got a snips and snails and puppy dog tails girl?

[Ariel]

This can't be real life??? :wtf:

If those people were true Christians[tm][/tm] they would implant the embryos themselves instead of auctioning them off as some sort of twofer deal.

You can get an embryo just in time for christmas!

Best Part:

We did some research and honestly, Klinefelter syndrome hardly even seems like a "special need." It is really only apparent when a boy goes through puberty. The biggest challenge is that he will be unable to have his own children. Other than that, most websites state that these children go on to live very normal and healthy lives.

[Emme]

Oh Adeye..... No, just... no.

[MissA]

Okay, so here we have a couple who had some fertility problems. They went through IVF with pre-implantation genetic diagnosis (which is significantly more expensive AND has more risk of destroying the fertilized eggs). They got, presumably, two "very good" results which they transferred to the mom's uterus, plus one "normal but maybe less good" and one "known genetic abnormality," which they froze. I'm basing this off the IVF history of my friends, and am by no means an expert... so it's possible that any women, especially older women or women with previous IVF history may have had more "very good" embryos transferred.

And then at some point later they decided "Well, it's okay for US to reject this embryo with the (fairly minor) abnormality but YOU, of course, don't get to make the same decision we did. Take both of them or die babyless"

Just a wee bit hypocritical, methinks.

[dianapavelovna]

No. No no no no no no no no no. Whether you believe life begins at conception or not, I don't know how you can state with a straight face that an embryo is no different than a living, breathing child. There's a reason there's no such thing as Embryo Protective Services. There's a reason those embryos are frozen and stacked in storage in a lab somewhere and not living in a foster home or group home or orphanage.

And I'm with MissA - seems like some hypocritical, manipulative bullshit on the part of the...embryo owners? Bleh.

[slh12280]

I am surprised that IVF is acceptable to them. Thought that would be construed as "playing God." Way to "take what God gives you" except when it comes to a potential disability, I guess. What happens if they stay frozen? Destroying them is a form of murder? So what is keeping them in that state where they can't ever develop into anything? Ugh, my brain really hurts.

[tigerchild]

I have asked pro-life "embryos are exactly the same as babies!" friends if they feel that a lab tech who was in a hurry to get home and didn't double check and in theory left a petri dish full of 15 embryos sitting out over the weekend because they were in a rush should get the same punishment as someone who left their 15 babies alone in their apartment over the weekend to go party. Or if someone were to theoretically step on a packet of 3000 fertilized eggs in a lab, would they be as bad as the people who brought down the World Trade Center.

Invariably they say no. And then I tell them to shut up with their moralizing around me, especially if they also wouldn't want to file a fully investigated police report for every miscarriage, be investigated after ever menstrual period if they've had sex the previous month for fertilized egg death and spontaneous abortion, and for women to go to prison and lose all their already-born children in the meantime while a miscarriage is being investigated for potential manslaughter.

[Melissa1977]

I can't understand that fundies accept fertility treatments. Isn't God who opens or closes the womb?

Fundie catholics don't acept these treatments (at least in theory).

This said, if this woman is so worried about the embryos, why doesn't adopt them herself?

[August]

Why didn't these people transfer the Klinefelter embryo first, then?

[docmom]

Invariably they say no. And then I tell them to shut up with their moralizing around me, especially if they also wouldn't want to file a fully investigated police report for every miscarriage, be investigated after ever menstrual period if they've had sex the previous month for fertilized egg death and spontaneous abortion, and for women to go to prison and lose all their already-born children in the meantime while a miscarriage is being investigated for potential manslaughter.

Sadly this actually happens in several South American countries with extremely restrictive abortion laws. Women can, and have, been jailed for having miscarriages/stillbirths. I suppose you could say they were at least consistent in their beliefs but, of course, poor women are much more likely to be prosecuted for these "crimes" than their middle class or rich counterparts.

[quinoa]

The DHM at the Common Room just posted a link about someone who's preparing to do embryo 'adoption.' Somehow, the argument for it includes the statistic that the freeze-thaw cycle kills 40% of embryos, so you should 'adopt' the ones already out there rather than doing your own IVF. I guess then the death of the 'babies' is only on the biological parents' heads?

I think the use of the word adoption in these cases is sleazy.

[PhiMuLady]

I have known one religious couple - although not fundie - who went through IVF and successfully had twins and a singleton. In order to avoid destroying the remaining four embryos, they had them transferred during the point in her cycle where there would be an almost zero chance of them implanting - letting nature take its course, essentially.

[snickerz]

J'chelle? Did you hear about this?

[Hane]

I once met a man with KFS. He was an engineer. He was on the short side, but nothing about him screamed "Disabled!"

[docmom]

I have known one religious couple - although not fundie - who went through IVF and successfully had twins and a singleton. In order to avoid destroying the remaining four embryos, they had them transferred during the point in her cycle where there would be an almost zero chance of them implanting - letting nature take its course, essentially.

Holy justification, Batman

[Joan of Snarc]

This said, if this woman is so worried about the embryos, why doesn't adopt them herself?

Sweet Jeebus, don't give her any ideas!

:o

[frumper-rump]

Why didn't these people transfer the Klinefelter embryo first, then?

My thought exactly. Theey had to know the potentially disabled boy would be hard to place. That child wasn't good enough for them, so they want to guilt someone else into "adopting" him. The whole thing is just disturbing. Especially how embryos are regarded the same as living, breathing babies. I can't wrap my head around it. It's crazy- it's even a bit much for most of the pro-life people I know.

[mamallama]

No. No no no no no no no no no. Whether you believe life begins at conception or not, I don't know how you can state with a straight face that an embryo is no different than a living, breathing child. There's a reason there's no such thing as Embryo Protective Services. There's a reason those embryos are frozen and stacked in storage in a lab somewhere and not living in a foster home or group home or orphanage.

And I'm with MissA - seems like some hypocritical, manipulative bullshit on the part of the...embryo owners? Bleh.

Oh, no, don't give them any ideas. I could see an Embryo Protective Services really easily. Of course, given how much they hate CPS it might make their brains explode.

[Aggie2145]

Holy justification, Batman

It's called a compassionate transfer...and the "almost zero chance" is a scary situation. What if all four do implant late cycle?

Think of how many lives this embryo could save if it were donated to research...perhaps a scientist could one day determine the case of this disability and develop a treatment. I know these families would never consider it, but I see donating extra embryos to research to be the same as donating blood.

[JesusFightClub]

I have asked pro-life "embryos are exactly the same as babies!" friends if they feel that a lab tech who was in a hurry to get home and didn't double check and in theory left a petri dish full of 15 embryos sitting out over the weekend because they were in a rush should get the same punishment as someone who left their 15 babies alone in their apartment over the weekend to go party. Or if someone were to theoretically step on a packet of 3000 fertilized eggs in a lab, would they be as bad as the people who brought down the World Trade Center.

Invariably they say no. And then I tell them to shut up with their moralizing around me, especially if they also wouldn't want to file a fully investigated police report for every miscarriage, be investigated after ever menstrual period if they've had sex the previous month for fertilized egg death and spontaneous abortion, and for women to go to prison and lose all their already-born children in the meantime while a miscarriage is being investigated for potential manslaughter.

A thousand times yes. That sums it up perfectly, and should be a line of argument all pro-choicers use.

That link made my head hurt badly. I've had a bit to drink. Please tell me it was all made up and there wasn't a woman who didn't want to adopt bundles of cells (because that's a totally sane idea, yes it is) because it would mean her monogrammed clothing went to waste (because that's even saner).

PLEASE

[tigerchild]

People do "adopt" other people's embryos. I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often in certain circles as you needn't pass a background check to be legal, but OTOH it "soils the marriage bed" (the argument I've heard from other fundie/conservative circles as an argument against donor insemination, ect.) as you have some other guy's genetic material (and in this case some other gal's too) growing inside the wife who belongs to her husband, for shame. In addition, you get to control your diet, ect. instead of relying on some slut birthmother who doesn't deserve her kid anyway to gestate. (Also have heard that, perhaps more gently, even from non-fundie people as to why adoption doesn't appeal to them, but hey, at least they're honest about not wanting to adopt.)

And yeah, I'm aware that restrictions on women exist in other countries. THat's why I confront people flapping their jaws at me with that. Want to outlaw all birth control and abortion because all children are precious and of course Good Citizens/Christians will care for them? Yeah, how'd that work out for Romania? Yeeeeaaahhhh.

Not that this changes people's bitching and false wringing of hands, but generally it shuts them up around me.

IMO if you're going to prance about waving your virtuous pro-life flag but do not wish to have the state impose restrictions on you and your daughters from the time they get their breast buds until doctor's confirmation of menopause by assigning you to permanently potentially pregnant (and thus restricted from all dietary/activity/ect/ restrictions and constant monitoring to make sure you didn't actually kill someone with each period) and have the government all up everyone's vaginas including yours/your wife's/your preteen daughter's--then you can just sit the fuck down, since that's what Equal Citizenship at Conception would entail, dumbass. Maybe you shouldn't propose laws that you haven't thought through that much.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

There's a reason there's no such thing as Embryo Protective Services. There's a reason those embryos are frozen and stacked in storage in a lab somewhere and not living in a foster home or group home or orphanage.

I'm imagining Adeye in a few years, living in a house full of freezers in every room just packed to the rafters with embryos, because of course one can't just "discard" the ones with special needs, oh no! Must save them! Must save them ALLLLLLLLLLL.... :cray-cray: