Beggars and their evil begging

[RosyDaisy]

Beggars are not evil. Here is why I give to them:

Matthew 25:31-46 says:

" 31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers,[a] you did it to me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.â€

Christ's own words. What part of that don't fundies understand? Just more cherry pckin to validate their ignorance and hate.

[RosyDaisy]

A person most certainly can die from heroin/opiate or benzo withdrawal, especially if they have certain medical conditions on top of addiction. It's rare, but it does happen. At least that's what my paramedic SO says.

[RosyDaisy]

I strongly--STRONGLY--believe that all people have certain rights. Everyone.

No one should have to listen to preaching or believe in God (or whatever the charity wants them to do) to get food or shelter.

AMEN! At my church, we don't make people who come to us for help to listen to a sermon. We help them. IF they ask spiritual guidance, then it is given. It is never a prerequisite for receiving charity.

[Mama Mia]

A person most certainly can die from heroin/opiate or benzo withdrawal, especially if they have certain medical conditions on top of addiction. It's rare, but it does happen. At least that's what my paramedic SO says.

I never said they couldn't. Just in my experience, both family and professional....and extensive reading and training because of the family and profession...it is far more likely that an overdose, bad batch, alcohol poisoning or any of the multitude of health problems from long term use will kill someone than withdrawals.

I don't think addiction is evil. I think it is a horrible hell of a disease that ruins people's lives, and often the lives of the people who love them. Sure, some people are " functional" addicts who are causing minimal damage to themselves or others, but many, whether on the street or in a well-off suburban home, are enduring ( and inflicting ) a huge amount of pain.

[RosyDaisy]

I never said they couldn't. Just in my experience, both family and professional....and extensive reading and training because of the family and profession...it is far more likely that an overdose, bad batch, alcohol poisoning or any of the multitude of health problems from long term use will kill someone than withdrawals.

I don't think addiction is evil. I think it is a horrible hell of a disease that ruins people's lives, and often the lives of the people who love them. Sure, some people are " functional" addicts who are causing minimal damage to themselves or others, but many, whether on the street or in a well-off suburban home, are enduring ( and inflicting ) a huge amount of pain.

I couldn't agree more. Addiction has made my sister's life hell as well as the the rest of our family.

[ADoyle90815]

I couldn't agree more. Addiction has made my sister's life hell as well as the the rest of our family.

That's true for my mom's side of the family, as we almost can call my aunt's liver cancer a blessing in disguise as it meant that no innocent people were killed as she often drove home from her local bars after drinking. The sad thing is that even if she were convicted of DUI, I don't think it would have been enough to convince her she had the disease of alcoholism.

[duplessis3]

Holy shot y out.wouldn't give a drink to someone with the dts? My father had the data and he was in no way capable of making any decision during that while he was fighting off rats and his skin was peeling off (he thought). I'm glad he died of the long term consequences of his lifestyle choice and not of the dts. I can think of fewer more miserable ways to die and again, in the throws of that he wouldn't have bee able to say "yeah if you give me a drink I will totally go to rehab"

[Lillybee]

I think that as a society these days, we are treating our poor street people like the lepers were treated in the time of Christ.

[Peas n carrots]

Interesting.

I've noticed in the British cities I've been to there is nowhere near the homeless problem I see in Chicago. I don't even see that many homeless folks in NYC (though where they all is another conversation). Every day, I pass by a 8-12 homeless folks on my walk to and from the train. It's mostly the same faces every day too. Even in my residential neighborhood I usually encounter a couple walking to/from home.

The way I see it, I just can't help everyone. There is also the safety issue of stopping and reaching into my pocket/bag. I've had multiple scary experiences with the homeless from sexual harassment to having my arm physically grabbed as I passed by to actually being chased down.

It's not that I don't feel sympathy or understand that many of the folks have issues. Basically, I feel the best way I can help is to give to a charity that can make the dollar stretch farther and has staff equipped to deal with more aggressive people. Also for my own personal safety this is the best way I can help.

[DarkAnts]

I don't know, AreteJo. I'd agree that nobody's winning the moral equivalent of a gold medal here, but Artemis's post was very well put.

You can buy an item from a shop and be contributing to the child of the owner's slide into drug abuse or alcoholism. You can give someone on the street who you suspect strongly is an alcoholic or drug abuser some money and it's actually similar. We have polite addiction, which just gets on with it and doesn't face the person giving money with what addiction looks like, and we have impolite addiction, which begs on the streets.

I have seen some frankly horrifying withdrawals, and so I would definitely rather give to someone who I suspect is going to have to put up with that if s/he doesn't get something to take or something to drink than to take the moral line that they shouldn't have been doing it in the first place. It is a pitiful attempt at helping, but there's not really another solution that will alleviate that person's suffering right in the present moment.

People can die from alcohol withdrawal. I don't think many people realize this. They judge without knowing what is actually going on inside the person.

[tropaka]

I remember people getting in a tizzy when they found out a homeless shelter(s) in my city gave out wine to some of their clients (Toronto)...HELLO, it was to keep them from going into withdrawal.

I live in an inner suburb of Toronto, so we have a mix of everyone in our neighbourhood. I give to two people specifically, one who has a mental challenge and who asks for the cart quarters at our local grocery, and a woman known as "quarter lady" - she's an addict (crack, I'd guess), and I regularly see her skimming recycling bins and my teen sons tell me that her boyfriend has tried pimping her out to them - so I'd rather give her a bit of change than think of what she's doing otherwise (and besides, when she's not high/jonesing we've had some nice conversations).

There's a lady in Vancouver who basically started services for the homeless there, and she's just retired - she started out by simply talking to people - invariably she said the offer of a coffee and/or a cigarette was enough. I'll have to look her up because she was the best person ever - would climb up into makeshift communities, take people personally to get help.

I've bought coffee or soup for people before instead of giving change.

There are no right/wrong answers here, like someone said. Giving to a charity that you trust is just as valid as giving to an individual. I know plenty of addicts who aren't on the streets because they or they're parents/partners have money.

ETA

http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/episode/20 ... s-retires/

[JesusFightClub]

I remember people getting in a tizzy when they found out a homeless shelter(s) in my city gave out wine to some of their clients (Toronto)...HELLO, it was to keep them from going into withdrawal.

Yes. There are too many people who don't know the difference between psychological addiction (you can not drink or take that particular drug, and the worst you feel is fed up and aggressive) and physical addiction (makes you very sick and can kill you).

Like you, tropaka, I give to a couple of people I know - one's a woman with no obvious addiction who's had a bit of a downer in life. She once called an ambulance on a pal of mine who was very ill and stayed with her until it got there, which is something I respect her a lot for. The other's a bloke who's a pisshead, not to put too fine a point on it. He'll ask you for everything from 50p to "get his bus" (aye right) to fifty quid and a mobile phone (fucking what? yes we all wander around with spare fifties and phones). However, his pitch is at the top of my road and I sort of feel he's part of the community. I'd rather he was here with his mad stories and asking for stupid crap than anywhere else where we aren't what we are and no-one would take any notice of him.