Fox News finally has proof that Sharia Law is taking over us

[Clementine]

From the article you referenced

As in all your posts on this thread you appear to be saying that Muslims are trying to enforce Sharia law on their adopted countries. I'm not seeing it to be honest and find it all a bit sensationalised. Sure there are going to be organisations and individuals for which this MAY be their manifesto. ONE whole Somali 'immigrant' in the Swedish government, well stone the crows. Time for a revolution.

As has been pointed out in countless posts the majority of Muslims are as bemused by the government pandering to whims they themselves have no interest in. The minority who wish to 'Muslimise' your country are just that a, minority. I'm not overly fond of UKIP or the BNP, actually I'm not overly fond of the Conservative party or it's MP's but that's the way the cookie crumbles in a democracy.

I get a vibe that unless you are a white Swede you have no right to have a say in the government and that sounds just as frightening to me as the sensationalist MUSLIMS want to take over thing you have going on.

I'd be interested to see evidence as you claimed in a previous post that the crimes committed in public places such as swimming pools, libraries and A&E is perpetrated by Muslims.

I think it's completely shocking that a person who openly, on tape, has said that he wants sharia law in Sweden, that it is ok to beat your wife if she is disobedient, has been the headmaster of a muslim tax funded school that has disregarded the mandatory curriculum and discriminated the female students, because the law of the quran is above the Swedish low plus a lot of other things, is elected into our parliament, without any hard questions asked. How can a person that apparently doesn't respect our laws be allowed to represent the people and be a part of making new laws?

Yes, it is shocking and this man happens to be a muslim and claims that his views are based on his faith.

It would be equally schocking if a person of any faith or conviction would have the same views and records, but I doubt that they would get away with it.

It is not exactly sensational that there are not so small groups of muslims who seek influence in the West. It's a fact.

The media is reluctant to write about it but when you research the groups, their ties, the people and organizations who fund them, the speakers they invite and what they write themselves, it is very clear that they try to gain influence both openly and behind the scenes and don't care much about democracy or Swedish laws. Many of them also get funds from our government, so it is rather alarming when a number of them has produced at least 400 jihadist warriors who are now in Syria, plus a number of people who are either killed in terrorist attacks or counterattacks, in jail for terrorism or wanted for terrorism.

I wonder what will happen when the surviving jihadists decide to return to Sweden.

Regarding sharia law: I think it is bad enough if sharia law is "only" applied to muslims. I expect everybody in this country, all the women and children, regardless of their ethnic or religious background to have exactly the same rights as everybody else and to under the law be protected from mistreatment, abuse or violence. To have the same rights as everybody else if they want a divorce.

I think it is a disgrace that authorities turn a blind eye to our immigrant population when women and children with non-European backgrounds have a higher risk of being abused or face threats, honour killings or female genital mutilation and also have the least knowledge about our laws and what help they can get. It's racist NOT to address this issue and I am ashamed that the feminists in Sweden are so quiet about it. I am damn greatful to have been born in Sweden with all the rights, protection and possibilities I have had since my birth and I want the same for all women and children in this country.

[Clementine]

Just Google muslim rape statistics in Sweden (Europe), they are all lying aren't they?

Sweden stopped making crime statistics based on nationality or ethnic background about ten years ago. But in their last report from 2005, men from non-European backgrounds were highly overrepresented in cases regarding rape, abuse, robbery, deadly violence and threats.

After that report was published, the government agency responsible for it decided to stop registering the ethnic backgrounds of convicts.

The latest crime trend is gangraping teenagers and adult women. So far, none of the people who have been convicted have had names like Sven, Lars and Anders.

[OkToBeTakei]

Err, the same blog piece rehashed over and over and over on different blogs and sensational sites is the evidence?

Are there no news reports? No court transcripts? Prosecution details? 300 cases and this is all you get when you google? Rape statistics as per religion. That's just lovely and not bigoted at all.

Here are some interesting links

http://www.opendemocracy.net/barzoo-eli ... n-democrat’s-anti-muslim-hysteria

Since the beginning of the 1990s, Sweden has gradually adopted more exclusive stances towards migrants from non-western countries and in particularly, Muslims. Today, Sweden is like many other western countries: Muslims are viewed in a wide range of political spaces as the problematic multicultural 'other' and radical right-wing populist parties are sowing profound sentiments of hatred toward Muslims among the population as part of their project to intensify the political boundaries between the “West†and “the Muslims.†This mobilization also involves the construction of negative discourses about Muslims as a disruptive force threatening the imagined white and Christian ideals of Europe.

http://www.loonwatch.com/2013/03/anti-m ... in-sweden/

“Forserum really showed what proportions Islamophobia as well as Afrophobia can take when an entire town looks on as people have their human rights violated,†Kitimbwa Sabuni told The Local on Friday.

Sabuni edited the report submitted to the UN’s Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD) by the Network of Swedish Muslims (Nätverket Svenska Muslimer i Samarbete), a cooperation of several different associations, in which representatives said Sweden was failing to tackle discrimination against Muslims.

The report estimated there are 350,000 Muslim Swedes, making it one of Sweden’s biggest minorities.

It asked the government to order an inquiry into how local authorities failed to help Somali migrants, some of whom were too afraid to let their children go to school after suffering verbal and physical abuse.

Just for shits and giggles ...here is a blog

http://itsnobody.wordpress.com/2011/08/ ... in-sweden/

Atheists or racists have claimed that the rape and crime in Sweden is caused primarily by Muslims and because of the Muslim population in Sweden. Initially I thought this could have been the case, but upon investigating this claim I found it to be false.

(he/she shows no more evidence as the other blogs.)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23761737

"We believe that's reason enough in a country where the number of reported hate crimes against Muslims is on the rise - and where women tie their headscarves extra tight so that it won't get ripped off - for the prime minister and other politicians to take action to stop the march of fascism," they wrote in the Aftonbladet newspaper.

[latraviata]

Sweden stopped making crime statistics based on nationality or ethnic background about ten years ago. But in their last report from 2005, men from non-European backgrounds were highly overrepresented in cases regarding rape, abuse, robbery, deadly violence and threats.

After that report was published, the government agency responsible for it decided to stop registering the ethnic backgrounds of convicts.

The latest crime trend is gangraping teenagers and adult women. So far, none of the people who have been convicted have had names like Sven, Lars and Anders.

I am completely with you here Clementine.

The officials turn a blind eye and even the slightest protest or criticism is considered to be racist, xeno/islamofobe and discriminatory.

[OkToBeTakei]

http://www.presseurop.eu/en/content/art ... ntegration

A new ‘we’ for Europe

Ullenhag has a solution: a new “we†for Europe. “I don’t like the fact that ‘we’ always refers to the past in Europe. In the US, everyone who lives on American soil is American. ‘We’ is about the future there. It should be like that in Europe too.â€

“It would already make a big difference,†says writer and journalist Viggo Cavling, “if we started by recognising that we are no longer the homogeneous country where everyone is equalâ€. But it is precisely this recognition that is difficult for the Swedish, says migration researcher Hübinette. “Nineteen per cent of Swedes now have one or two foreign parents. But we do not realise that yet. Don’t forget that Sweden has never had any colonies. Also because of this, Sweden is a nationalistic country. Swedes do not just like to do good, they also think that they are good. So we like to take in refugees, but find it difficult to recognise that we have allowed major abuses. We are running two decades behind in the multicultural debate.â€

[Clementine]

Err, the same blog piece rehashed over and over and over on different blogs and sensational sites is the evidence?

Are there no news reports? No court transcripts? Prosecution details? 300 cases and this is all you get when you google? Rape statistics as per religion. That's just lovely and not bigoted at all.

Here are some interesting links

http://www.opendemocracy.net/barzoo-eli ... n-democrat’s-anti-muslim-hysteria

http://www.loonwatch.com/2013/03/anti-m ... in-sweden/

Just for shits and giggles ...here is a blog

http://itsnobody.wordpress.com/2011/08/ ... in-sweden/

(he/she shows no more evidence as the other blogs.)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23761737

Like I wrote, Sweden don't have any official statistics that monitor convitcs ethnic background since 2005 and media rarely publish names.

Kitimbwa Sabuni is by the way one of the islamists who has made a career on fighting "islamophobia" and afrophobia in different state funded projects. The only real evidence of afrophobia his organization has been able to produce so far were a number of alledged cases where somali immigrants in a small community, Forserum, had been harrassed even though none of it was reported to the police and there were no evidence. The spokesperson for the somali group claimed that a pig's head had been thrown into their assembly hall several times but had no evidence and never called the police. Couldn't even produce a photo on a mobile phone.

When alternative media started to investigate it, most of it was made up or because of cultural misunderstandings. Kirimbwa Sabuni made a big deal claiming that a somali girl had been forced to have milk poored over her to make her white. It was something he repeated over and over again in different media to show how violent the attacks were. It turned out that the "milk attack" consisted of a boy who made a bad joke to a muslim girl in the line to the school canteen. He said something like "you need more milk to become white and look like us" but didn't understand how bad his "joke" was. He has later apologized to the girl.

Kitimbwa Sabuni has a sister called Myamko is ironically the former minister of integration.

His organization was also in trouble for exaggerating the numbers of members of it in order to get more money from the government. He claimed that Afrosvenskarnas förbund (the Council of Afro-Swedes) had 1200 members, when in fact there were 47.

He has also claimed that an ice-cream is racist after the ice-cream company made a licorice version of their chocolate ice-cream and added "Black" to the name.

Afrosvenskarnas riksförbund, who gets money from the government, recently invited a muslim speaker called Alhadji Drammeh who in his speech said that women should stay in the home, Swedish women are bad because they walk around in small panties (under their clothes but still) and it's bad for the society when women show their hair.

As for the hijab manifestation that BBC writes about.

It started when one Swedish convert alledgedly was abused late one Friday night in a parking lot in one of the immigrant areas. The rumour spread on Facebook and within a few hours the people behind the manifestation had rolled out a whole campaign on internet media and had debate articles ready to publish. One of the women behind it is a rather hardcore islamist called Fatima Doubakil who happens to be married to Kitimbwa Sabuni.

Another one is Cherin Awad, who has said that stoning is an adequate punishment for women who are cheating.

A third name is Nabila Abdul Fattah whose brother has been suspected of links to muslim terrorism. Scotland Yard and the Swedish police raided his home while investigating links to the Swedish muslim with bosniak background who was convicted of terror crimes, Mirsad Biktasevic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirsad_Bek ... 1evi%C4%87

Abdul Fattah is a rather hardcore left-wing activist who was one of the names behind the organization that was involved in the riots in Husby where thugs trashed and burned cars and buildings earlier this year. She expressed a lot of support and sympathy for the vandals in media and on Twitter.

The woman who allededly was abused because of her hijab on Friday claims to have been abused again outside her home the same week. There are no witnesses to what happened and the police has no real evidence and has dropped the case.

The people behind the CERD report also have interesting ties. One of the names behind the report is Helena Benaouda, the chairman of the Swedish muslim council (SMR) and a key figure in the Grand Mosque in Stockholm. Her son-in-law, Munir Awad, has been arrested three times, suspected of committing terror crimes and is now serving a twelve year sentence in Denmark after planning to blow up a newspaper office.

In 2007 he was arrested in Somalia but was eventually released.

In 2009 he was arrested in Pakistan with among others Mehdi Ghezali who had been a detainee in Guantanamo Bay from 2002 to 2004 after he had been arrested in Pakistan, near the Afghan border. They were eventually released.

And in 2010 Munir Awad was arrested and later convicted of planning a terrorist crime against the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten that had published the Mohammad cartoons. He is now serving twelve years in a prison in Denmark.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munir_Awad

I could go on and write a lot more about the links that you have posted, but I'll leave it there for now. But as you can see the muslims who are behind these campaigns and declarations have a rather unusual worldview and strange ties to groups and people who don't like our way of freedom, liberty, democracy and equality.

[Clementine]

http://www.presseurop.eu/en/content/article/4049791-problem-swedish-integration

I think it's a great initiative if everybody who moves here and become citizens sees themselves as Swedes rather than their original ethnic background or their religion and that they make an effort to respect our laws, history and traditions and work hard to contribute to our society rather than use it. That's exactly what I would wish for.

The Thai community are successful at doing this and are in general very liked and respected.

[OkToBeTakei]

I think it's a great initiative if everybody who moves here and become citizens sees themselves as Swedes rather than their original ethnic background or their religion and that they make an effort to respect our laws, history and traditions and work hard to contribute to our society rather than use it. That's exactly what I would wish for.

The Thai community are successful at doing this and are in general very liked and respected.

So basically come to Sweden. Forget your history, your culture, your religion, your ETHNICITY. Then you will be welcome.

I think your understanding of cultural integration is somewhat lacking.

xen·o·phobe (z n -f b , z n -). n. A person unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or foreign peoples.

[Clementine]

So basically come to Sweden. Forget your history, your culture, your religion, your ETHNICITY. Then you will be welcome.

I think your understanding of cultural integration is somewhat lacking.

xen·o·phobe (z n -f b , z n -). n. A person unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or foreign peoples.

Where did I write that? I think America is a great example of how the immigrants who moved there saw themselves as Americans, followed the laws and wanted to serve their country, but still had their own traditions and national pride.

I don't see a conflict there, but if the old culture clash with the country you move to and your traditions or religions make it impossible to follow the law in the new country or you don't respect the people who live there and their history or traditions, there will be a problem. And there will be no "us" or melting pot but parallell societies.

[OkToBeTakei]

Clementine wrote

' everybody who moves here and become citizens sees themselves as Swedes rather than their original ethnic background or their religion and that they make an effort to respect our laws, history and traditions and work hard to contribute to our society rather than use it. That's exactly what I would wish for. '

It is kind of difficult to not see the meaning behind the words you wrote as anything else.

As somebody pointed out it is difficult to compare Europe with the US on this scale. What you appear to be missing is the reason that the US is a melting pot and very successful at integration is because their history is that of MANY cultures. Like every nation it has it's issues but leaving behind one's religion and ethnicity is not one that most Americans has expected their immigrants over the ages to adhere to.

I live in a culturally diverse society, I certainly do not expect every immigrant who lives in my country to don a kilt and become Church of Scotland. The problem of other cultures bringing their ideology adds to the diversity, for every extremist of one culture I can show you an equally extreme homegrown variety. They exist in all democracies and tend to be in the minority. I am fairly certain the same can be said of Sweden. The reality of all the some 350,000 Muslim immigrants being extremists is somewhat ludicrous. Proportionally I am sure there are far more militant fascists.

It is a red herring on one hand to claim you want rights for women and this is what makes sharia law so heinous and on the other hand slyly imply if they leave their culture behind and embrace another it will make it right. Cultural integration requires mutual understanding not just the black and white version you portray. When you marginalise any minority they are very likely to retreat to a place of familiarity and trust. That does not always meet or sit well with their adopted country but further marginalising and scaremongering about the Muslims are taking over my country is certainly doing nothing to help the situation.

Europe has a long way to go with immigration it's a hot button issue in just about every political agenda. The Muslim society in my country is now probably second to third generation and whilst we have our share of extremists I feel no more threatened by them than I do about the homegrown extremists that grace my country. I wonder if my Muslim neighbour looks at me and thinks I'm a member of the BNP just because I'm white? I do not look at her and think she is Al Quaeda. :think:

We have woman only sessions at my local pool. It also is a communal changing room. I feel as strongly about women who feel uncomfortable because of their religion having the use of the pool for an hour a week as I do about it being used for children's parties an hour a week, or for those infernal 'lengths' people or the over 65 hour, the pregnant lady hour, swim team (many hours,) baby swim, special needs and all the other citizens with their needs.

[nelliebelle1197]

It is kind of difficult to not see the meaning behind the words you wrote as anything else.

As somebody pointed out it is difficult to compare Europe with the US on this scale. What you appear to be missing is the reason that the US is a melting pot and very successful at integration is because their history is that of MANY cultures. Like every nation it has it's issues but leaving behind one's religion and ethnicity is not one that most Americans has expected their immigrants over the ages to adhere to.

I live in a culturally diverse society, I certainly do not expect every immigrant who lives in my country to don a kilt and become Church of Scotland. The problem of other cultures bringing their ideology adds to the diversity, for every extremist of one culture I can show you an equally extreme homegrown variety. They exist in all democracies and tend to be in the minority. I am fairly certain the same can be said of Sweden. The reality of all the some 350,000 Muslim immigrants being extremists is somewhat ludicrous. Proportionally I am sure there are far more militant fascists.

It is a red herring on one hand to claim you want rights for women and this is what makes sharia law so heinous and on the other hand slyly imply if they leave their culture behind and embrace another it will make it right. Cultural integration requires mutual understanding not just the black and white version you portray. When you marginalise any minority they are very likely to retreat to a place of familiarity and trust. That does not always meet or sit well with their adopted country but further marginalising and scaremongering about the Muslims are taking over my country is certainly doing nothing to help the situation.

Europe has a long way to go with immigration it's a hot button issue in just about every political agenda. The Muslim society in my country is now probably second to third generation and whilst we have our share of extremists I feel no more threatened by them than I do about the homegrown extremists that grace my country. I wonder if my Muslim neighbour looks at me and thinks I'm a member of the BNP just because I'm white? I do not look at her and think she is Al Quaeda. :think:

We have woman only sessions at my local pool. It also is a communal changing room. I feel as strongly about women who feel uncomfortable because of their religion having the use of the pool for an hour a week as I do about it being used for children's parties an hour a week, or for those infernal 'lengths' people or the over 65 hour, the pregnant lady hour, swim team (many hours,) baby swim, special needs and all the other citizens with their needs.

I just gently want to point out Clementine's first language is not English and she is speaking from her experience in her country. I have seen you jump all over people for not recognizing this in others (remember Oil?). Perhaps you are pulling nuance out she does not mean.

[Clementine]

It is kind of difficult to not see the meaning behind the words you wrote as anything else.

As somebody pointed out it is difficult to compare Europe with the US on this scale. What you appear to be missing is the reason that the US is a melting pot and very successful at integration is because their history is that of MANY cultures. Like every nation it has it's issues but leaving behind one's religion and ethnicity is not one that most Americans has expected their immigrants over the ages to adhere to.

I live in a culturally diverse society, I certainly do not expect every immigrant who lives in my country to don a kilt and become Church of Scotland. The problem of other cultures bringing their ideology adds to the diversity, for every extremist of one culture I can show you an equally extreme homegrown variety. They exist in all democracies and tend to be in the minority. I am fairly certain the same can be said of Sweden. The reality of all the some 350,000 Muslim immigrants being extremists is somewhat ludicrous. Proportionally I am sure there are far more militant fascists.

It is a red herring on one hand to claim you want rights for women and this is what makes sharia law so heinous and on the other hand slyly imply if they leave their culture behind and embrace another it will make it right. Cultural integration requires mutual understanding not just the black and white version you portray. When you marginalise any minority they are very likely to retreat to a place of familiarity and trust. That does not always meet or sit well with their adopted country but further marginalising and scaremongering about the Muslims are taking over my country is certainly doing nothing to help the situation.

Europe has a long way to go with immigration it's a hot button issue in just about every political agenda. The Muslim society in my country is now probably second to third generation and whilst we have our share of extremists I feel no more threatened by them than I do about the homegrown extremists that grace my country. I wonder if my Muslim neighbour looks at me and thinks I'm a member of the BNP just because I'm white? I do not look at her and think she is Al Quaeda. :think:

We have woman only sessions at my local pool. It also is a communal changing room. I feel as strongly about women who feel uncomfortable because of their religion having the use of the pool for an hour a week as I do about it being used for children's parties an hour a week, or for those infernal 'lengths' people or the over 65 hour, the pregnant lady hour, swim team (many hours,) baby swim, special needs and all the other citizens with their needs.

Like I wrote above, I expect immigrants to follow our laws, respect our culture, history, cultural heritige and traditions and to work to contribute to our society and respect the people who built this country. That alone would solve a lot of problems that we have now.

I have a very influential mosque in my neighbourhood that has close ties to the Muslim Brotherhood, has invited anti-semtitic speakers and has people with close ties to convicted terrorists on their board. That is a reason to worry, I think, and I am not willing to look the other way or sweep it under the rug.

[OkToBeTakei]

I just gently want to point out Clementine's first language is not English and she is speaking from her experience in her country. I have seen you jump all over people for not recognizing this in others (remember Oil?). Perhaps you are pulling nuance out she does not mean.

Good point. Her grammar is better than mine though. :lol:

Nuance aside the links and quotes used are quite sensationalist and it really bears looking at the content in regards to accuracy rather than emotive point making.

The movement toward integration is not easy and I don't think it is perfect in any country, that being said Sweden in particular is sited as one of the most racist and xenophobic countries in the EU. Wether Clementine is speaking from personal experience or immersion in that culture bares debate if nothing else. My intent is not to smack on Sweden, just that in this thread it is being used as an example and sometimes internal versus how you are perceived from the outside can be very different.

The report Racism and Xenophobia in Sweden by the Board of Integration state that Muslims are exposed to the most religious harassment in Sweden. Almost 40% of the interviewed said they had witnessed verbal abuse directed at Muslims

Sweden is home to several white supremacist and neo-Nazi organizations, including:

Legion Wasa

Nationalsocialistisk Front (National Socialist Front)

Svenska Motståndsrörelsen – (Swedish Resistance Movement)

Vitt Ariskt Motstånd (White Aryan Resistance)

After Germany and Austria, Sweden has the highest rate of antisemitic incidents in Europe, though the Netherlands reports a higher rate of antisemitism in some years.[5] A government study in 2006 estimated that 15% of Swedes agree with the statement: "The Jews have too much influence in the world today".[citation needed] Five percent of the entire adult population, and 39% of the Muslim population, harbor strong and consistent antisemitic views.

In December 2010, the Jewish human rights organization Simon Wiesenthal Center issued a travel advisory concerning Sweden, advising Jews to express "extreme caution" when visiting the southern parts of the country due to an increase in verbal and physical harassment of Jewish citizens in the city of Malmö.

I figure most EU countries have to some extent the issues above. Certainly with the lowering of borders. I think Clementine does make some good points which I agree with regarding respect of culture but I think it is a two way street and posting nefarious easily disproved claims such as 300 children have been raped by Muslims does not really cut it, nuance or not. That's as subtle or nuanced as a brick wall.

[nelliebelle1197]

BTW, OKTBT, I think it is very narrow of you to assume everyone who immigrates to Scotland doesn't do it for the kilts. There are probably a whole bunch of new Scottish citizens who will now be too ashamed to let the colors fly free.

[Joan of Snarc]

^ The kilts and the haggis. Why else would anybody immigrate to Scotland?

:drool:

[docmom]

You don't get groups to integrate into a society by marginalizing them. That, more than anything else, breeds extremism. If you allow the Muslim girls to swim in a girls only environment or wear headscarves to school you show them that they too can be part of our society while retaining their identity. If they are forced to never swim or go to Muslim only schools integration will never be possible.

[Terrie]

The thing about "Sharia courts" in non-Islamic countries is that it's basically arbitration -- the parties agree that a particular person or organization will rule on their dispute. Then, unless the decision is in violation of the law, the courts enforce the decision. Arbitration is used all the time, for a variety of reasons, mainly by businesses, especially in technical areas where you may want an expert in that area to have input on the actual decision (i.e. an engineer might be part of the decision making panel). It's generally faster, often cheaper and less formal than actual court.

[Clementine]

Good point. Her grammar is better than mine though. :lol:

Nuance aside the links and quotes used are quite sensationalist and it really bears looking at the content in regards to accuracy rather than emotive point making.

The movement toward integration is not easy and I don't think it is perfect in any country, that being said Sweden in particular is sited as one of the most racist and xenophobic countries in the EU. Wether Clementine is speaking from personal experience or immersion in that culture bares debate if nothing else. My intent is not to smack on Sweden, just that in this thread it is being used as an example and sometimes internal versus how you are perceived from the outside can be very different.

I figure most EU countries have to some extent the issues above. Certainly with the lowering of borders. I think Clementine does make some good points which I agree with regarding respect of culture but I think it is a two way street and posting nefarious easily disproved claims such as 300 children have been raped by Muslims does not really cut it, nuance or not. That's as subtle or nuanced as a brick wall.

I just want to point out that I haven't posted any links, other than to two Wikipedia entrys that seem to be accurate, and I haven't posted any numbers of anything.

What I have written about crime rates and the people in the links you posted are facts, that are easy to check, and not just my own personal opinions.

We do have small fractions of neo-nazis and right wing extremists, but they are not very organised and haven't perpetrated any violent crimes since the 90's. The media and authorities keep a close look on them and will crack down as soon as they can.

I have been to a number of their demonstrations to see for myself what is happening. The demonstrations that I have witnessed have had 20-100 people who have marched with Swedish flags and have looked like school children out on excursion with their teachers, only that there are policemen who are leading them instead of a nanny.

The counder-demonstrators, often from extreme left-wing groups, are the ones that have causes chaos with shouting, vandalism, throwing bombs (sorry, don't know the real word for it, but they are like heavier versions of fire crackers) and fireworks at them etc etc.

What the media have reported after the demonstrations are "Violent demonstrations when national socialists demonstrated" but they never write who caused it. I am in no way defending any of the organizations that you posted, but they are minor players without any influence and who don't really cause anything other than ugly stickers in the subway.

I googled Vitt Ariskt Motstånd and it appears that it hasn't been active since 1993 and the last article about Legion Wasa I can find is from 2004.

Anti-semitism is on the rise, yes, but this time it is not from ethnic Swedes. After the wave of neo-nazism and anti-semitism in the 90's our government decided to start an institution for recent history and their first task was to write a book about the holocaust, plus learning material to distribute to all school children. It is also mandatory to teach about the holocaust. That is something that everybody who is under 40 has learnt a great deal about and in general are very passionate about fighting racism.

Therefore it's a rather complex situation when a group of foreign immigrants are behind the anti-semitism. Are we racist if we point out to them that what they think is wrong? Are we supposed to be tolerant to the intolerant not to offend them or disrespect them?

It's an issue that our authorities have tried to avoid and we can see the result today: Malmö, one of the cities with the biggest population of MENA immigrants, is becoming judenrein. The American rabbi in the synagogue, rabbi Kesselman from Detroit, is harrassed and threatened on the streets. What do the Swedes do? Look the other way not to risk being called racists and throw our jew under the bus.

Our jewish community is old, well integrated and in general very educated and has contributed a great deal to this country without making any fuss about their religion. Like the Swedes, they seem to think that religion is a private matter.

As for the hate crimes that are perpetrated against the muslims... I don't think that one of them has been brought to trial the last few years. It is difficult to understand why there are no witnesses, no photos, no recordings or films on mobile phones, no surveillance footage of what is happening. The group above (Sabuni, Doubakil, Benaouda etc) claim that muslims are harassed, threatened and violated every day but really don't have much evidence to back it up. I am not saying it never happens, but I am surprised that no evidence has been published.

I also wonder know that a lot of muslims see critique of their religion or the way they practice it is "hate" and "islamophobia" and "racism" so maybe they count my entries in this thread as part of the racist hate they are facing in Sweden.

[OkToBeTakei]

^ The kilts and the haggis. Why else would anybody immigrate to Scotland?

:drool:

If I did not live here it would be one of the last places on earth I would choose to emigrate to :lol: Even when the Scots did decide to do some mass emigrating they chose New Zealand WTF? Same shit weather!

I also did post a link to the Swedes standing in unison with their Muslim sister who had her head covering ripped off. So yes there is evidence, it would appear also by the wiki link I posted which was not actually polled Muslims or Jews, the people polled were Swedish.

[Savoring Samsara]

One of the basic principles of a democracy is that the same laws and the way to execute them applies to everybody. We already have sharia courts in Europe, with the blessing from the authorities, and it is a threat to our democracy and a huge betrayal of the muslim women and children who are the ones who suffer the most from it. One example from the UK here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... ourts.html

There are also political movements who want to impose sharia law for everybody, not just the muslims. We have the political party Hizb-ut Tahrir, a very big islamic organisation called IFIS who run the Great Mosqe in central Stockholm and has strong ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and also Abdirisak Waberi, a Somali immigrant who is now a member of the Swedish parliament and a representative in the parliamentary committee of defence. He has publicly said that he wants sharia laws in Sweden, when we are ready for it. Charming, isn't it?

Regarding muslims not proselytising: no, they don't because islam has historically spread through conquest and violence.

Right now the muslim organisations try to gain more followers and apologetics and more power by spreading one-sided propaganda, infiltrating political parties and organisations and demands to stop critisism of islam by suppressing of our freedom of speech.

Regarding the case in Minnesota, I also wonder why the St. Paul police department are providing transportation for the girls. Is that one of the duties of the US police, to provide transportation to civilians to get them to sports activities?

Because I'm curious: Sharia is not the only form of religious law. For example, Orthodox Judaism has the beth din/rabbinical court that oversees religious divorces, conversions, and other interpretations of Jewish law. In Israel these courts can even enforce civil penalties on offenders. We've also discussed on this board how in some areas of the world, the ultra-Orthodox have begun to exercise a disproportionate level of influence on local and regional government, and to try to impose religious law on previously secular governments. If the same laws in a democracy should apply to everyone, should Jewish religious law and battei din be shut down as well, lest the ultra-Orthodox attempt to impose that legal code in the same way that Sharia is purportedly being imposed upon us all?

As for the transportation question, which I don't think anyone has addressed for you, Clementine: I don't know exactly what form of transportation is being provided, so it's hard for me to say much about whether the specifics of the program are a good idea or a good use of time and money. It may be that the department is just helping to fund the transportation provided by a third party, which sounds more likely to me than the officers driving people to the Y in squad cars. However, I also think it's important to note that part of the duties of a beat cop include being a visible presence in the neighborhood to which the officer is assigned. I think it's a good idea for police officers to be seen as members of their community and a part of the fabric of the neighborhood in peaceful times as well as in times of crisis, so that they're not just outsiders who come in and put the smack down when they think they see laws getting broken. That worsens tensions with law enforcement and doesn't lead to respect. When people learn that their local beat cop is a good neighbor who can be trusted to do the right thing, and when the officer behaves in an honorable and approachable manner, residents are much more willing to take their problems to the police so that all kinds of crimes and abuses can be stopped before they get really bad. This is especially true in immigrant communities. I think there are much worse things that the St. Paul police could be doing than basically sending the message of, "girls, we're on your side, so if anyone ever tries to hurt you, you can take it to us and we'll help you."

[Clementine]

Because I'm curious: Sharia is not the only form of religious law. For example, Orthodox Judaism has the beth din/rabbinical court that oversees religious divorces, conversions, and other interpretations of Jewish law. In Israel these courts can even enforce civil penalties on offenders. We've also discussed on this board how in some areas of the world, the ultra-Orthodox have begun to exercise a disproportionate level of influence on local and regional government, and to try to impose religious law on previously secular governments. If the same laws in a democracy should apply to everyone, should Jewish religious law and battei din be shut down as well, lest the ultra-Orthodox attempt to impose that legal code in the same way that Sharia is purportedly being imposed upon us all?

As for the transportation question, which I don't think anyone has addressed for you, Clementine: I don't know exactly what form of transportation is being provided, so it's hard for me to say much about whether the specifics of the program are a good idea or a good use of time and money. It may be that the department is just helping to fund the transportation provided by a third party, which sounds more likely to me than the officers driving people to the Y in squad cars. However, I also think it's important to note that part of the duties of a beat cop include being a visible presence in the neighborhood to which the officer is assigned. I think it's a good idea for police officers to be seen as members of their community and a part of the fabric of the neighborhood in peaceful times as well as in times of crisis, so that they're not just outsiders who come in and put the smack down when they think they see laws getting broken. That worsens tensions with law enforcement and doesn't lead to respect. When people learn that their local beat cop is a good neighbor who can be trusted to do the right thing, and when the officer behaves in an honorable and approachable manner, residents are much more willing to take their problems to the police so that all kinds of crimes and abuses can be stopped before they get really bad. This is especially true in immigrant communities. I think there are much worse things that the St. Paul police could be doing than basically sending the message of, "girls, we're on your side, so if anyone ever tries to hurt you, you can take it to us and we'll help you."

Thanks for the explanation!

I really do hope that this swimming course will be a small step for the Somali immigrant group and the Somali girls to integrate in the society, and not just a way to remain segregated.

[nelliebelle1197]

If I did not live here it would be one of the last places on earth I would choose to emigrate to :lol: Even when the Scots did decide to do some mass emigrating they chose New Zealand WTF? Same shit weather!

I also did post a link to the Swedes standing in unison with their Muslim sister who had her head covering ripped off. So yes there is evidence, it would appear also by the wiki link I posted which was not actually polled Muslims or Jews, the people polled were Swedish.

I am on a plane heading back from New Zealand right now! My husband is from there and has 2.5 million siblings (and a couple are NOT in the UK or Ireland, but actually reside in NZ!), so we spend enough time there each year so that the local doctor has my kids in as "returning citizens" for healthcare purposes! Yep, just had nearly a month in Wellington, the city where you can go through 4 seasons in one day. (Also, I have no idea what day it is. I left on Tuesday, arrived in Hawaii on Monday, left Hawaii on Tuesday, so I think it may be Wednesday...?).

[bean]

Because I'm curious: Sharia is not the only form of religious law. For example, Orthodox Judaism has the beth din/rabbinical court that oversees religious divorces, conversions, and other interpretations of Jewish law. In Israel these courts can even enforce civil penalties on offenders. We've also discussed on this board how in some areas of the world, the ultra-Orthodox have begun to exercise a disproportionate level of influence on local and regional government, and to try to impose religious law on previously secular governments. If the same laws in a democracy should apply to everyone, should Jewish religious law and battei din be shut down as well, lest the ultra-Orthodox attempt to impose that legal code in the same way that Sharia is purportedly being imposed upon us all?

As for the transportation question, which I don't think anyone has addressed for you, Clementine: I don't know exactly what form of transportation is being provided, so it's hard for me to say much about whether the specifics of the program are a good idea or a good use of time and money. It may be that the department is just helping to fund the transportation provided by a third party, which sounds more likely to me than the officers driving people to the Y in squad cars. However, I also think it's important to note that part of the duties of a beat cop include being a visible presence in the neighborhood to which the officer is assigned. I think it's a good idea for police officers to be seen as members of their community and a part of the fabric of the neighborhood in peaceful times as well as in times of crisis, so that they're not just outsiders who come in and put the smack down when they think they see laws getting broken. That worsens tensions with law enforcement and doesn't lead to respect. When people learn that their local beat cop is a good neighbor who can be trusted to do the right thing, and when the officer behaves in an honorable and approachable manner, residents are much more willing to take their problems to the police so that all kinds of crimes and abuses can be stopped before they get really bad. This is especially true in immigrant communities. I think there are much worse things that the St. Paul police could be doing than basically sending the message of, "girls, we're on your side, so if anyone ever tries to hurt you, you can take it to us and we'll help you."

I have lived in St. Paul, MN for nearly 10 years. The city does have a significant Somali population and this definitely sounds like a good-will gesture on the part of the police force, just like you described. The pockets of Somali residents tend to be in not-so-great parts of town, so I'm sure that the police want to build and maintain trust with the residents.

Here's a local newspaper report on the story that's much less sensational than the FOX News report: http://www.startribune.com/local/east/232082231.html

[OkToBeTakei]

I am on a plane heading back from New Zealand right now! My husband is from there and has 2.5 million siblings (and a couple are NOT in the UK or Ireland, but actually reside in NZ!), so we spend enough time there each year so that the local doctor has my kids in as "returning citizens" for healthcare purposes! Yep, just had nearly a month in Wellington, the city where you can go through 4 seasons in one day. (Also, I have no idea what day it is. I left on Tuesday, arrived in Hawaii on Monday, left Hawaii on Tuesday, so I think it may be Wednesday...?).

:lol: Have a safe journey! Here it's Wednesday!

I was thinking about this thread driving to town and here is an anecdotal shoot myself moment.

A few years ago it was very likely Mr Ok's new project would be Saudi based. I was initially very excited which was very quickly followed by as long as little Miss OK can go to either a British or American school. Also I imagine we would have been viewed as ex-pat, not as 'immigrants.'

It is a very strange world we inhabit.

[Conuly]

Clementine, whenever a marginalized group complains about harassment, the response is "well, I haven't seen it, there is no proof".

And sometimes that is because it isn't happening, and other times that is because the speaker isn't in a position to observe it or simply doesn't want to see it. It's hard to say from the outside which it is.

Interestingly, I just today read an article about a secret police register of 4000 Roma in Sweden. It always seems to me that prejudice against Roma and prejudice against Jews tend to happen together.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25200449