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Ken Alexander~ Pin your misbehaving wife to the wall


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Great advice Ken. I don't care if there isn't one bruise on the wife...that is abusive behavior, and it would be very, very easy for someone who is angry/upset to not realize their own strength and inflict some damage.

Anyways, what kind of person assumes all men are cavemen who can't communicate through...I don't know...FUCKING TALKING? I admit to a few embarrassing times early in my marriage where I laid into DH, and he would calmly reply "I refuse to be treated this way and I will only discuss this with you when you can calm down." Every person is different and every relationship has different dynamics...and if your spouse is out of control it's time to high tail it to a counselor instead of restraining them.

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If my husband dared to pin me to the wall, he'd be singing soprano for a week. Getting pinned to a wall is a violent act, and I'd absolutely react in self defense, to take him down in any way possible and get out of that position.

I am an adult, and it is no one else's job to handle my emotions and actions for me. If I'm feeling angry or upset enough that I anticipate saying something I'll regret later, I will say, "I need to take a walk and cool off. I'll be back in 15 minutes." NOT THAT HARD.

Given that the one person who's ever pinned me to the wall also treated my statement "No, I don't want to have sex" as if it were quaint, amusing, and the opening of a negotiation session, The Partner knows not to do it for any reason, ever. I will not find it sexy. I will find it panic-inducing and will scream bloody murder.

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I have felt out of control. I used to have anxiety-fueled rage meltdowns in which I would hyperventilate and sometimes hurt myself. But it wasn't because I am an irrational little woman. It was (in part) because I was never taught to express negative emotions constructively in my fundie household. How could I, when they weren't supposed to exist? So I got overwhelmed by them and could only think to take them out on myself.

The solution would never have been to hold me down until I agreed to behave appropriately. That would just make the rage and frustration worse.

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Exactly, RachelB. Women are adults, and so we're responsible for ourselves. If I'm upset, I'll put myself and Partner in separate rooms while I watch Netflix or play a game, or go work out, run, or go buy a newspaper/go to my favorite coffee place.

I would never let something like her pinning me to the wall happen. The closest things to a physical altercation, ever, were exactly twice: pulling me away from traffic when we were walking in a major city and I wasn't paying attention, and then keeping a tight hold for a few seconds because I scared her; and

when I was really depressed several months ago, stopping me from harming myself.

Really, the only cause to ever physically restrain is if your partner is going to get run over/shot/seriously injure themselves if you don't.

Ughhh, Ken and Lori. Enough said.

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Great advice, Ken. Next post - when is it MANLY and MASCULINE to commit frauds, break and enters, and impaired driving? Don't limit yourself to crimes of violence!

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This is possibly the most fucked up post yet.

He is actually advocating assault.

This is what I do for a living, folks. I deal with cases where people call the police. I see people - both men and women - get charged with assault. Simple assault just requires unwanted physical contact. That's it. There doesn't need to be bruising or blood. Police aren't impressed with explanations like, "but I'm her husband!" or "I just needed to show her that I was in control". Are you trying to get your fans arrested?

Now, if someone really IS out of control, getting physical with them is about the last thing you want to do. Unlike Ken's S&M fantasy world, in the real world, people who are under the influence or having an episode of mental illness or simply having serious anger management issues don't magically calm down the moment a husband restrains them. Some of them become MORE worked up. They fight. They grab forks, or knives, or meat cleavers, and within seconds things get dangerous.

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If a man did that to me, his ass would be in jail and out of my life.

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Screw this man and his nonsense. If a man did that to me I would walk right the hell away and never look back. AND GUESS WHAT KEN? NO MAN CAN STOP ME!! HAHAHAHA IM MAD WITH FEMINIST POWER!

Seriously- this asshole should have his mouthpiece taken away, he's like a small child with a new toy. Totally out of control.

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It's very easy for me to sit here and say I would throw him out - I grew up being taught to stand up for myself, to go to the police, etc.

This sort of post really scares me when I think of my fundy nieces and nephews. They have been taught to never go to the police and that everything should be dealt with within the church. What will my nieces do if their husbands pin them down? What levels of violence will my nephews go to?

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When I was first dating my husband, he had a habit where if we were hugging and I started to walk away, he would hug me tighter for a few seconds to stop me from leaving. It bothered me, and eventually I told him. At first, he was confused because I would laugh when he did this, but I was laughing because it made me uncomfortable. Once I explained this to him, he stopped doing it.

It didn't matter that he had no intention of hurting me. It didn't matter that I knew he had no intention of hurting me. It didn't matter that he was doing it in a loving manner, and not to discipline me.

None of this mattered because it didn't feel good. It didn't feel good on a gut, instinctual level, because that's how it feels to be physically restrained at a moment when I want to move freely. And because my husband is not an abusive asshole, he stopped doing it, because he wants me to feel loved and safe.

This. A thousand times this.

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And what exactly constitutes out-of-control misbehaviour on the wife's part that necessitates such action on the husband's part, expressing anything other than sweet, submissive acquiescence or expressing needs/wants that would be seen as usurping his authority?

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Seriously- this asshole should have his mouthpiece taken away, he's like a small child with a new toy. Totally out of control.

Agree.

Someone tell me again why we give him free publicity here on FJ? (This applies to his wife, too).

These two aren't worth it. They are not going to change, and they are just two idiots who have a platform only because the internet exists.

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"A love that does not punish, a love that does not ask in what would be called in today's world "controlling" is not love at all." :pink-shock:

URGLGARGLGNURFUXPFRRRRTSJKTSJKTSJK... All the cogs in my brain have come to a grinding halt. That is the DUMBEST ánd most offensive thing I've ever read....

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Ok, Ken. Assault has a very specific legal definition. In both my jurisdiction and yours, unwanted physical contact = assault. Period. This is not about my opinion or yours. This is about how the law in each jurisdiction is drafted, and how courts in each jurisdiction have interpreted the law.

Consensual hugs are fine, because the contact is wanted. Pinning someone to the wall or otherwise restraining them when they are upset or angry is not okay, unless it is a clear case of self-defense. Even kissing is not okay if it is being forced on someone and is not consensual.

I talk about how people interpret stuff they read online, because you are posting online, in a public forum. If you are only counseling couples that you know well in person, keep that advice private and don't repeat it on the internet. For example, I know of religious leaders who will give specific advice to congregants geared for their specific situation, but will caution that the advice is not meant as a general rule or teaching but is meant for that situation, and that situation only.

******************************************************************************************************

Now, I can't help but read this post together with the post on the Pearls.

1. Ken talks about how his father used physical discipline. Ken grew up to be a man who thinks that your kids will be impossible to handle if they aren't spanked, and now he's showing that he believes that a male show of force is needed to keep even adult women in line. He clearly lacks any ability to figure out how to handle any situation without getting physical. In his mind, the only two options are "show physical strength and gain control" or "do nothing and be controlled". Bully or be bullied.

2. The Pearls clearly advocate stuff in their book that would be considered assault with a weapon where I live. Lydia Schatz was killed by being hit with plumping line. But no, it can't be any fault of the Pearls! They claim to be Christian, they quote some Bible verses and they claim that they don't support abuse, so that must magically make them immune to any consequences or responsibility. Ken is clearly advocating actions which would legally be considered assault where he lives, and he's doing so on a public online forum geared to people who need marital advice. But hey, he's not responsible if the advice goes horribly wrong. He's a good Christian guy who claims that he's not advocating abuse!

Fundie definition of abuse:

1. A horrible thing that is DEFINITELY not what we are advocating at all, and how dare you even hint otherwise!

2. A nasty allegation cooked up by god-hating feminists who want to destroy families.

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Now, I can't help but read this post together with the post on the Pearls.

1. Ken talks about how his father used physical discipline. Ken grew up to be a man who thinks that your kids will be impossible to handle if they aren't spanked, and now he's showing that he believes that a male show of force is needed to keep even adult women in line. He clearly lacks any ability to figure out how to handle any situation without getting physical. In his mind, the only two options are "show physical strength and gain control" or "do nothing and be controlled". Bully or be bullied.

2. The Pearls clearly advocate stuff in their book that would be considered assault with a weapon where I live. Lydia Schatz was killed by being hit with plumping line. But no, it can't be any fault of the Pearls! They claim to be Christian, they quote some Bible verses and they claim that they don't support abuse, so that must magically make them immune to any consequences or responsibility. Ken is clearly advocating actions which would legally be considered assault where he lives, and he's doing so on a public online forum geared to people who need marital advice. But hey, he's not responsible if the advice goes horribly wrong. He's a good Christian guy who claims that he's not advocating abuse!

Fundie definition of abuse:

1. A horrible thing that is DEFINITELY not what we are advocating at all, and how dare you even hint otherwise!

2. A nasty allegation cooked up by god-hating feminists who want to destroy families.

You've got it.

A big part of the Pearls' crap (and the things their supporters repeat and repeat) is that the parent is calm when doing whatever violent shit they advise. Somehow that magically makes it all OK.

So there's a third thing to put on your list -- Abuse=something done in a rage.

It sounds like Ken is trying to pull off the same BS -- as long as one is not in a rage, it's loving control, not abuse and assault.

It doesn't work that way, Ken.

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I think I would knee the guy in the you know whats.

I tried. It didn't work.

My teenaged cousin (completely unschooled in martial arts or self defense techniques) once blithely went to show her burly six foot tall father how she'd defend herself from an attacker by kneeing him in the groin. He effortlessly spun her around and got her in a bear hug, to show her that self defense isn't as easy at it looks.

We gotta be VERY careful and vigilant, ladies.

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RE: self defense

It´s not as easy as it looks - but there are very good courses for it. In Germany we have the "Weisser Ring", a society who takes care of abused women and they offer courses for women. Not for free, but very cheap. I´m trained in martial arts and I did one of this courses and I recommend something similar to every women. You learn very easy things to protect yourself.

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It's very easy for me to sit here and say I would throw him out - I grew up being taught to stand up for myself, to go to the police, etc.

This sort of post really scares me when I think of my fundy nieces and nephews. They have been taught to never go to the police and that everything should be dealt with within the church. What will my nieces do if their husbands pin them down? What levels of violence will my nephews go to?

Even when you're taught to advocate for yourself, it's so damn hard.

I didn't leave an ex when he hit me. It was, more or less, a 1 time thing, and it was the nail in the relationship coffin (I started distancing from that point on and it was over not long after)...but I didn't leave on day 1.

My younger sister is one of THE MOST ASSERTIVE spitfire young women you could ever hope to meet. She doesn't put up with shit and she's been taught to stand up for herself; she's not hesitant to call the police...and she was in an abusive relationship for quite some time. It's amazing what someone can do to you when they systematically gaslight and distance and mess with your confidence. (and it's also amazing how useless the police can be--hell, one particular instance, she did call the cops, he had left marks, they picked him up, they assured her there would be a 24 hour hold & she'd be notified before he was released and 2 hours later he was sitting on her front stoop, calling her repeatedly and the police said there was nothing they could do)

But, while I worry about her and her relationships (she's now out of that one and I really like the man she's seriously dating--although, to be fair, I liked mr. abusive before I knew he was abusive), I hear what you're saying, I worry even more about my very meek niece being raised in fundiedom, I worry about my people pleasing cousin and what she might land in.

*sigh*

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Re isolation: One of the biggest warning gongs that told me to throw my ex to the curb was when he casually said, "I wonder where we'll end up living when we retire." I instantly thought, "No way in HELL is he going to separate me from my family and friends!"

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Oh, crap--this thread is so triggery. About 20 years ago, during an argument with my then-husband, I went to leave the house. He followed me into the garage and put me in a headlock and said some condescending things. I twisted around and instinctively tried to knee him in the nuts, but didn't connect (he was about ten inches taller than I and much heavier). He hollered at me, demanding that I admit that I'd tried to knee him. Somehow I broke free--and he burst into tears. He said he felt guilty and wanted to go back to being the "nice guy" he used to be. I went into the house and spent the day vedging on the couch ignoring him as he tiptoed around me.

To this day, I hate myself for not having thrown him out. I'm sure my emotional paralysis had something to do with the kids being in the house (my 12-year-old daughter, and his "problem child" 12-year-old son, who was living with us that year).

I was so ashamed that I didn't even mention this to the people closest to me until long after I divorced him.

Fun fact: I was a founding member of my town's domestic violence task force and shelter back in the '70s.

I feel fucking sick now--even though he's dead.

I'm really sorry you went through all that, Hane. POSs like your ex and Ken make me sick to my stomach.

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I'm really sorry you went through all that, Hane. POSs like your ex and Ken make me sick to my stomach.

Thanks, moodygirl. The insidious thing is that he didn't act that way *all* the time--but I should have realized that *nobody* could.

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Ken:

You and your husband seem proof perfect of what I was trying to say in the post. I do not expect hat every husband is to bear hug his wife, or do anything physical with her if it will not prove effective. But I know there are many wives, and perhaps husbands, who can get so stressed out, so upset, so feeling out of control, for one reason or another, even hormones, that they respond well to a brief pause in their control.

Wonder how often Lori needs "a pause in her control"? Someone should ask him about the time Lori claimed that he said he would spank her on SSM's blog and she said she would take the spanking any day. I'd like to see his response to that if the coward didn't delete it.

Ken:

I believe that many wives and husbands would respond well to a physical approach to dealing with such trying or out of control times. Allowing a husband leeway to decide how to deal with his wife is part of submission and vulnerability.

There is something beautiful about a man loving his wife enough to not just walk away from a fight or her misbehavior,
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I tried. It didn't work.

My teenaged cousin (completely unschooled in martial arts or self defense techniques) once blithely went to show her burly six foot tall father how she'd defend herself from an attacker by kneeing him in the groin. He effortlessly spun her around and got her in a bear hug, to show her that self defense isn't as easy at it looks.

We gotta be VERY careful and vigilant, ladies.

Constance vigilance!

My kids took martial arts when they were young. The instructors used to give lots of self defense tips to the moms and dads who waited through the lessons. One of the best things he ever said, and this was to adults and to the children, is that knee caps bend only one way. And that even a small child can mess up somebody's kneecap with a kick.

These instructors were also big advocates of hitting people in the nose (as is my husband). Hits to the groin are expected, the nose not so much, fingers in the eyeballs work well too. In a bear hug, you can generally reach back and grab his groin with your hand.

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