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Because they like the movie Braveheart? That's all I can think of. Wallace's accurate history is nothing like the movie. Like the concept of freedom, as Americans think of it today, didn't exist at that time in Scotland.

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Because they like the movie Braveheart? That's all I can think of. Wallace's accurate history is nothing like the movie. Like the concept of freedom, as Americans think of it today, didn't exist at that time in Scotland.

This, really. The film is seriously irritating and I wish it was never made (it set the cause of Scottish independence, which I support, back a fair way).

"Freedom" seems to mean advanced capitalism, which a. is not freedom and b. didn't exist during the historical periods Wallace and Robert the Bruce existed in.

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Just a wild guess and taking liberties with history..... Robert the Bruce supposedly threw William Wallace under the bus to save his own ass, secure his ascendancy to the Scottish throne, and make nice with King Edward I of England. This after Robert the Bruce fought alongside William Wallace against England. So, you can say that the patriarchs of VF are Robert the Bruce throwing Doug the Tool under the bus.

Again keep in mind this is taking liberties with history (if not historically inaccurate). Historical accuracy isn't VF forte. Plus the situations aren't even the same. Doug at most will fall from grace, not tortured and killed like William Wallace.

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This, really. The film is seriously irritating and I wish it was never made (it set the cause of Scottish independence, which I support, back a fair way).

"Freedom" seems to mean advanced capitalism, which a. is not freedom and b. didn't exist during the historical periods Wallace and Robert the Bruce existed in.

Braveheart dragged in places. And I never did buy Mel Gibson in a kilt. I don't like historical films anymore. The American audience believes that's what happened and doesn't trouble to inquire otherwise.

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Braveheart dragged in places. And I never did buy Mel Gibson in a kilt. I don't like historical films anymore. The American audience believes that's what happened and doesn't trouble to inquire otherwise.

His accent was .........well not bad, but not good either. I suppose though if they had portrayed his accent accurately as per region it may have required subtitles :lol:

It is far from historically accurate but that never stops film makers anyway.

Talking of accents always makes me chuckle Sean Connery always speaks in his natural Scottish accent no matter if he is supposed to be Russian or a New York Irish cop !

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Braveheart dragged in places. And I never did buy Mel Gibson in a kilt. I don't like historical films anymore. The American audience believes that's what happened and doesn't trouble to inquire otherwise.

I know you're not really generalising, but I just have to raise my hand and say, THIS Amurrican (me) enjoyed the film for what it was, but cringed at all the ridiculous inaccuracies, not least of which was the strong suggestion that Wallace fathered a child on Isabella. And don't even get me started on Philippa 'I'm A Historian' Gregory and her Other Boleyn Girl/White Queen nonsense. :snooty:

Knowing what really happened (well, as much as we CAN know!) makes it difficult to truly enjoy most historical novels and films. :doh:

Oh--I do have to say one good thing about Braveheart. The soundtrack was beautiful. :violin:

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I bet the works of Sir Walter Scott are probably very popular among the VF crowd. For those who don't know, Scott wrote romanticized historical fiction novels about medieval Scotland that have lot of violence, chivalry, loyalty and all the other values that VFers claim to love. Mark Twain satirized the heroic values of Scott's books in "Huck Finn" in the feud between the Shepherdsons and the Grangerfields by showing how such idealized notions of honor lead to violence. William Wallace was also the subject of a book by Scott. It wouldn't surprise me if Scott's books were in the VF catalog, especially since they're in the public domain.

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I know you're not really generalising, but I just have to raise my hand and say, THIS Amurrican (me) enjoyed the film for what it was, but cringed at all the ridiculous inaccuracies, not least of which was the strong suggestion that Wallace fathered a child on Isabella. And don't even get me started on Philippa 'I'm A Historian' Gregory and her Other Boleyn Girl/White Queen nonsense. :snooty:

Knowing what really happened (well, as much as we CAN know!) makes it difficult to truly enjoy most historical novels and films. :doh:

Oh--I do have to say one good thing about Braveheart. The soundtrack was beautiful. :violin:

Yes, I generalized. Sorry! And I'm with you on Phillipa Gregory- it's definitely fiction. Perhaps inspired by an historical event, but fiction.

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I know you're not really generalising, but I just have to raise my hand and say, THIS Amurrican (me) enjoyed the film for what it was, but cringed at all the ridiculous inaccuracies, not least of which was the strong suggestion that Wallace fathered a child on Isabella. And don't even get me started on Philippa 'I'm A Historian' Gregory and her Other Boleyn Girl/White Queen nonsense. :snooty:

Knowing what really happened (well, as much as we CAN know!) makes it difficult to truly enjoy most historical novels and films. :doh:

Oh--I do have to say one good thing about Braveheart. The soundtrack was beautiful. :violin:

For me, one thing I did like about Braveheart was the soundtrack. I'm also an American who cringes at historical inaccuracies in movies and TV shows. In fact, I consider that new series Reign about Mary Queen of Scots to be a comedy because it's so historically inaccurate starting with the costumes.

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For me, one thing I did like about Braveheart was the soundtrack. I'm also an American who cringes at historical inaccuracies in movies and TV shows. In fact, I consider that new series Reign about Mary Queen of Scots to be a comedy because it's so historically inaccurate starting with the costumes.

Reign- that's the one on the CW, right? That's filmed just outside of Toronto. And the set designers make no effort to hide the location. I lasted about seven minutes (four was the commercial break).

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Reign- that's the one on the CW, right? That's filmed just outside of Toronto. And the set designers make no effort to hide the location. I lasted about seven minutes (four was the commercial break).

Oh, good god almighty, that show is so terrible. Comedy is right. It's so bad it makes Braveheart look like it was co-written by David Starkey, Peter Ackroyd, and Eric Ives as part of their doctoral dissertations after years of intensive study in the greatest university libraries of Britain. :laughing-rolling:

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Oh, good god almighty, that show is so terrible. Comedy is right. It's so bad it makes Braveheart look like it was co-written by David Starkey, Peter Ackroyd, and Eric Ives as part of their doctoral dissertations after years of intensive study in the greatest university libraries of Britain. :laughing-rolling:

My big peeve is incorrect accents. I can forgive a lot in an historical film if the accents are correct. I cannot stand it when, say, I'm watching Cold Mountain, and all the accents are incorrect for that region of the South. (Each character's accent was wrong for that part of the Appalachians. And Nicole Kidman's was generic American South, probably learned way back in drama school. Renee Zewellegers was her own Texas accent, just exaggerated.) Or when I watched Braveheart and each character (even the ones who were from the same village as Wallace) had a different accent. If a studio is gong to splash out for a film like Braveheart or Cold Mountain, there is money for a dialect coach.

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I'm a vulgar American, and just watched Braveheart to see Mels' ass 8-) I consider it time well spent because back then he was still hot & not BSC publicly.

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The first time I heard about William Wallace was from Little Bear Wheeler. After hearing him describe in detail how Wallace died, (with lots of young kids in the room!) I refuse to learn anything more about him. Thanks a lot Little Bear!

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DH has been on a Scotland kick lately. Watching Weir's Way, Rab C. Nesbitt and Taggart...I think I've become fairly good at picking up the regional accents.

Anyways, I would imagine for an actor the Scottish accent would be one of the most difficult to emulate. There is just a very different cadence, and so many sounds come from far back in the mouth or the throat. Not to mention the slang...some parts of Glasgow speak almost an entirely different dialect of English (I'm sure there are other areas...I just have more personal familiarity with weegie).

So I do give Mel a bit of a break...I'm not sure if it could be done w/o having been born and raised in Scotland. Off the top of my head I can't think of any actors who are not Scottish who have played Scottish characters who were able to get it right...though I'm happy to be proven wrong!

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Ah no, I wasn't bothered about the accent. It was just this fucking caricature of Scotland which annoyed me.

We are all brave and bold and hideously oppressed by the cold, calculating, evil English - gies peace, what ahistorical shite. The worst thing you can do for an emerging nation is to feed them lies about how intrinsically noble and fantastic they are. And we are an emerging nation, and the last thing we need is to pretend we have some kind of inbuilt character traits which make us better than everyone else.

This might sound a bit angry, but I was in high school when Braveheart came out and some nationalist teachers took us to see it, leading to some quite nasty displays of prejudice. At the same time, someone started putting stickers and posters around my small town saying "White Settlers Go Home". That's exactly the sort of thing which should have no place in an independent Scotland. There were all sorts of little things - we weren't allowed to wear football colours at school unless it was the Scotland strip and Scotland were playing England, when the rule became mysteriously relaxed. It was like a no-uniform day for the boys at my school when that happened.

I occasionally get a bit sentimental about living in "the early days of a better nation". Scotland can be that better nation - but we never will if we take the Siol nan Gaidheal outlook that any of our fellow Scots who happen not to be white and/or speak with different accents, and our comrades from other countries, are somehow lesser.

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Braveheart dragged in places. And I never did buy Mel Gibson in a kilt. I don't like historical films anymore. The American audience believes that's what happened and doesn't trouble to inquire otherwise.

Hey now, not fair. I can hardly follow the plot of any show with any sort of interesting historical or geographic setting because I am so busy following a billion google tangents on the topic while trying to watch. :lol:

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If you think I watched Braveheart to learn about the history of Scotland in the 14th century, you'll believe I watched The Tudors for the excellent overview of the Reformation. :popcorn2:

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If you think I watched Braveheart to learn about the history of Scotland in the 14th century, you'll believe I watched The Tudors for the excellent overview of the Reformation. :popcorn2:

*cough*CharlesBrandonDukeofSuffolk*cough* :whistle:

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