Wounded Eagles: Fundie Scandals

[Talitha Cumi]

I remember reading that verse in the bible about all secrets being revealed and I was like, fuck, there going to know I... Well, I didn't have a word for it then, but I now know it was masturbation. No one told me that, and i sI spent 8 years of my childhood thinking I was the only one, and that i would spend the entirely of eternity bein laughed at and ostracized for it.

Uuuuuuggh. I was in college when I stopped believing that masturbation was a sin. I figured if it kept me from having premarital sex, it was the better choice. :lol:

Don't remember much your story hour tapes, but oh god do I remember uncle Arthur stories. Even at that young age I thought a lot of those stories were STUPID. My dad even agreed with me about one of them. He said that the mother having just combed a girls hair was a dumb reason not to let her play in the hay stack (a real one, not food). Of mother had said yes, daughter wouldn't have felt the need to sneak to the other side, where it was more dangerous and she almost suffocated.

What about the kid who always took the best of everything, so they gave him rotten apples and a hollow pie at dinner? What a fucking passive-aggressive thing to do.

They played "Your Story Hour" tapes for us during lunchtime. Nothing like a little further indoctrination! Linda, Annabel, Merrill, Aunt Sue and Uncle Dan saying "Goodbye everyone! See you again next week!"

The more we reminisce, the more I realize how repressed our upbringing was.

[Talitha Cumi]

Just catching up on thread! THe most important thing I have to say is that haystacks need lettuce and tomatoes on top.

SamaraiKatz - so interesting to read your history. George Vandeman was a very kind man and DH's family knew that family well. There are some really wonderful things about Adventism but when you get to that end times and investigative judgement crap, it gets scary. I know it's not unique to Adventism, but I certainly grew up with a fear that my sins would be broadcast SuperBowl style after Jesus' came. Anyone remember the My Story Hour tape about the judgement? Scared the hell out of me. Thank you so much Uncle Dan and Aunt Sue…

My dad's mom was a Rittenhouse; her sister was Virginia Fagal of Faith For Today. My great-aunt was Virginia-Gene Rittenhouse, director of the New England Youth Ensemble. I played with them for a year, until I got kicked out. ;)

And to the poster who only likes Stripples as their vegemeat…. Ugh! That's probably the ONE I can't stand. I even liked Nuteena better, at least it didn't stick with ya all day. :)

Cardboard, delicious salty cardboard... :drool:

[SamuraiKatz]

I will also cop to liking Loma Linda Big Franks. But only if they are done on the grill...and I can have the sinful, sinful mustard as my condiment of choice...plus onions...lots of em.

I read Counsels on Diets and Foods,Adventist Home, and Child Guidance. The rules regarding condiments...and the evils of the Bowling Alley still escape me.

[SamuraiKatz]

My dad's mom was a Rittenhouse; her sister was Virginia Fagal of Faith For Today. My great-aunt was Virginia-Gene Rittenhouse, director of the New England Youth Ensemble. I played with them for a year, until I got kicked out. ;)

Cardboard, delicious salty cardboard... :drool:

I remember Faith for Today. Didn't realize it was an SDA entity. How did you get kicked out of the Youth Ensemble?

[SamuraiKatz]

Uuuuuuggh. I was in college when I stopped believing that masturbation was a sin. I figured if it kept me from having premarital sex, it was the better choice. :lol:

What about the kid who always took the best of everything, so they gave him rotten apples and a hollow pie at dinner? What a fucking passive-aggressive thing to do.

They played "Your Story Hour" tapes for us during lunchtime. Nothing like a little further indoctrination! Linda, Annabel, Merrill, Aunt Sue and Uncle Dan saying "Goodbye everyone! See you again next week!"

The more we reminisce, the more I realize how repressed our upbringing was.

I remember that story about the pie. Boistrous Bimbo. Being from the outside and an adult, I always wondered about the usage of Bimbo. I realize the stories were written back in the early part of the century....but still.

I'm glad I got out before I did any lasting damage to my kids. They grew up to be agnostic feminists...who went to college.

[bionicmlle]

I will also cop to liking Loma Linda Big Franks. But only if they are done on the grill...and I can have the sinful, sinful mustard as my condiment of choice...plus onions...lots of em.

I read Counsels on Diets and Foods,Adventist Home, and Child Guidance. The rules regarding condiments...and the evils of the Bowling Alley still escape me.

No pepper, no mustard and nothing really spicy because EGW said that it irritated the lining of the stomach and, IIRC, "stirred the passions" although I don't know if that is true or if we just joke about that a lot around here.

You guys might enjoy this line of products: http://www.amazon.com/1844-Greeting-Car ... d_sim_op_2 (not broken b/c it's Amazon)

[Janes Heir]

Thought you all might enjoy this: http://adventistforum.org/sites/default ... eLarge.jpg

I want to get one and write "The 2520 part" underneath. The 2520 is apparently another time prophecy Wm Miller taught that has been "rediscovered as present truth" and is causing lots of controversy.

Btw, up-thread someone mentioned Hartland College. Any of you know anyone from there? Do you think the education is better or worse than (Evangelical) fundie non-accredited "colleges"?

[Talitha Cumi]

I will also cop to liking Loma Linda Big Franks. But only if they are done on the grill...and I can have the sinful, sinful mustard as my condiment of choice...plus onions...lots of em.

I read Counsels on Diets and Foods,Adventist Home, and Child Guidance. The rules regarding condiments...and the evils of the Bowling Alley still escape me.

ZOMG BICYCLES. We had to do SoP reports in Bible class, and someone inevitably wrote about why bicycles are wrong. (Ironically.)

I got kicked out of the NEYE because we were playing at Carnegie on Saturday night, and we had rehearsal there during the day on Sabbath. VG proclaimed that we had to wear our uniforms (long-sleeved blouses, long skirts) to rehearsal because Sabbath was our holy day and we had to wear dresses. When the time came down to it, I refused to change, so she told me after the concert I was out. I'd been planning to quit anyway because I hated it.

Some guys were wearing tank tops and shorts, but they weren't kicked out bc they were tympani and brass. I was last-stand second violin, lowest you can get, so I was expendable. 8-)

[SamuraiKatz]

Thought you all might enjoy this: http://adventistforum.org/sites/default ... eLarge.jpg

I want to get one and write "The 2520 part" underneath. The 2520 is apparently another time prophecy Wm Miller taught that has been "rediscovered as present truth" and is causing lots of controversy.

Btw, up-thread someone mentioned Hartland College. Any of you know anyone from there? Do you think the education is better or worse than (Evangelical) fundie non-accredited "colleges"?

One of my friends daughters attended Hartland. Her degree was pretty much useless for employment purposes. She later got her RN from a secular school.

[Janes Heir]

One of my friends daughters attended Hartland. Her degree was pretty much useless for employment purposes. She later got her RN from a secular school.

Which "major" did she do? It's clear to me that most of their degrees are useless, but I wonder if their secondary education one is equally so? (I imagine, since you can't specialize in something like English or Science. I'm pretty sure students there are lucky if their "profs" have real BAs in anything. I know the guy who teaches history, and I'm pretty sure he just has something health related from Weimar or Uchee Pines. I think his wife has a real degree, and their retired president Colin Standish has a PhD.)

[SamuraiKatz]

Which "major" did she do? It's clear to me that most of their degrees are useless, but I wonder if their secondary education one is equally so? (I imagine, since you can't specialize in something like English or Science. I'm pretty sure students there are lucky if their "profs" have real BAs in anything. I know the guy who teaches history, and I'm pretty sure he just has something health related from Weimar or Uchee Pines. I think his wife has a real degree, and their retired president Colin Standish has a PhD.)

I think no accredidation equals take your hard earned money and leave you with nothing to show for it. You have to look at where the money flows with these organizations.

I believe she majored in Health Ministry. I know she did the selling SDA books thing...and couldn't get a job. She completed high school at Ouachita Hills Academy. My friends hearts were in the right place by sending her to Heartland...and the daughter just wanted to serve God...but it didn't work out so well.

[Trynn]

I don't know anyone who went to Heartland, but I know people who were considering it. My friend C says that the rules are over the top strict. She says the girls aren't even allowed to sleep in tank tops and shorts because in the event of a fire, a boy could see them :o

Boistrous Bimbo??? Oh my gosh, that totally went over my head as a child. Wasn't that story called The Hollow Pie? The one where like, the best looking apple is made of wax, the pie is hollow, and the biggest brownie is undercooked in the middle? (as a child, I actually remember thinking that that last one would be rather tasty...

The one from Uncle Arthur that struck out to me though was the one where the children decide to sleep in the bathtub. My dad asked if I wanted to do that too, so I did. (without turning the water on, though.) Since then it's been my life's goal to sleep in as many strange places as possible. On a mission trip once, I slept in the baptistry. It was great, I had my own "room" and even my own bathroom. I just prayed the church wasn't having any baptisms anytime soon.

There was SUCH a modesty double standard! I remember at Michigan's SDA youth summer camp, they took all the girls away from afternoon activities one day (or maybe it was our morning ones, I can't remember which) which made me mad in and of itself, and they had a Q and A session with some of the adult women. It was supposed to focus on purity. The only woman pastor at the time, pastor Esther, was there. She wasn't the one who said this, but I distinctly remember one girl asking "Why is there so much emphasis on girls modesty when boys can be immodest too with the low hanging pants that show 4 inches of underwear?"

I thought it was a good question. I'd always been curious abut it, and was eager to hear the answer. I'll never forget it. One of the ladies picked up a book and said, "girls, have you read the secret keeper? It's all about modesty and how to keep yourself pure for marriage."

I was like, WHAT THE FUCK! Can I back to horseback riding now please?

And it seemed like every year at that same camp, once I hit the teenage years, every single year they had someone get up on stage and cry about how they'd had sex outside of marriage and how much they regretted it and the man will always leave if you have sex with him...

As an asexual, I REALLY wanted to just get back to archery already.

With regards to EGW and condiments, I don't know about mustard and pepper, but I know that vinegar was made differently back in her day. My aunt beth said that what EGW went throught when she gave up vinegar was very similar to withdrawal alcoholics go through. I've read that vinegar used to be alcoholic, which makes sense as to why she'd be against it, but the science of today says it's fine.

The bicycle thing... oh god, that was actually one of the reasons trotted out every single time someone wanted to argue for EGW being examined within the cultural context. they were very picky about what they did this with, but the bicycle example got brought out every time they wanted to argue against something she said.

Bikes used to be very expensive back then, and people were buying them instead of food. Or, so the story goes. So that's why EGW said bikes are a sin.

For the same reason, she was also against the use of photographs, at least.

The circles I ran with never really followed all this. Once at an SDA gathering someone asked for pepper and then immediately started apologizing. The hostess waved her off, said there was no need to apologize, and brought out the pepper.

Some of the more conservative sects refuse to use any of these things. I'm not a condiment person myself, so it really doesn't bother me.

[Janes Heir]

I think no accredidation equals take your hard earned money and leave you with nothing to show for it. You have to look at where the money flows with these organizations.

I believe she majored in Health Ministry. I know she did the selling SDA books thing...and couldn't get a job. She completed high school at Ouachita Hills Academy. My friends hearts were in the right place by sending her to Heartland...and the daughter just wanted to serve God...but it didn't work out so well.

Yeah, I think their success stories are only those who are "committed" (or locked?) into full-time "self-supporting work". I don't think their degrees are of any use in the "real world".

[Trynn]

I thought Heartland was specifically for people who DIDN'T want jobs in the real world... sort of like Misison College of Evangelism isn't really a real world college, but one you go to specifically if you want to get into ministry.

[Janes Heir]

I thought Heartland was specifically for people who DIDN'T want jobs in the real world... sort of like Misison College of Evangelism isn't really a real world college, but one you go to specifically if you want to get into ministry.

Yes, I guess that's true. It's just that people usually learn later in life that they may need real skills, or that the ministry thing is hard on one's own, and even harder with a bunch of opinionated, um... fanatics. My mom still wants me to go there, but I've been explaining to her that I'd be forever locked in that system where I couldn't make my own choices.

[Talitha Cumi]

I don't know anyone who went to Heartland, but I know people who were considering it. My friend C says that the rules are over the top strict. She says the girls aren't even allowed to sleep in tank tops and shorts because in the event of a fire, a boy could see them :o

That is some Taliban shit right there.

Boistrous Bimbo??? Oh my gosh, that totally went over my head as a child.

My Boisterous Bimbo is tame at last!

Wasn't that story called The Hollow Pie? The one where like, the best looking apple is made of wax, the pie is hollow, and the biggest brownie is undercooked in the middle? (as a child, I actually remember thinking that that last one would be rather tasty...

Undercooked brownies... :drool:

The bicycle thing... oh god, that was actually one of the reasons trotted out every single time someone wanted to argue for EGW being examined within the cultural context. they were very picky about what they did this with, but the bicycle example got brought out every time they wanted to argue against something she said.

Bikes used to be very expensive back then, and people were buying them instead of food. Or, so the story goes. So that's why EGW said bikes are a sin.

I thought it was because women wore split skirts or bloomers, and also could escape chaperones. That's just a vague memory though.

[Trynn]

That is some Taliban shit right there.

My Boisterous Bimbo is tame at last!

Undercooked brownies... :drool:

I thought it was because women wore split skirts or bloomers, and also could escape chaperones. That's just a vague memory though.

The money one was the reasons pastors always spoke about in sermons. I haven't actually read the relevant passage(s?) it may have been all of the above?

[bionicmlle]

The money one was the reasons pastors always spoke about in sermons. I haven't actually read the relevant passage(s?) it may have been all of the above?

In our readers for 2nd/3rd/4th grade I seem to remember a story about spending a lot of money on things like bicycles and that's why EGW advised against them. Of course, we all had bikes and it was used as an "object lesson" on wisely using our resources. DH did not remember anything about bikes at all but my BIL remembers the costliness as an issue (for bikes and jewelry and cars, as well).

[Dysfundamental]

My dad's mom was a Rittenhouse; her sister was Virginia Fagal of Faith For Today. My great-aunt was Virginia-Gene Rittenhouse, director of the New England Youth Ensemble. I played with them for a year, until I got kicked out. ;)

Tiny world! I grew up near AUC, so heard all the various groups a lot over the years. Why so much John Rutter music? Is he SDA?

[Talitha Cumi]

Tiny world! I grew up near AUC, so heard all the various groups a lot over the years. Why so much John Rutter music? Is he SDA?

No, but he and VG were buddies, and he really liked the group. I played under him a couple times; he looks like a happy madman when he directs. :lol:

I did love my time at AUC. Coming from a sheltered Adventist upbringing, it was a good step between home and the rest of the world. It's a shame it's closed now.

[Trynn]

No, but he and VG were buddies, and he really liked the group. I played under him a couple times; he looks like a happy madman when he directs. :lol:

I did love my time at AUC. Coming from a sheltered Adventist upbringing, it was a good step between home and the rest of the world. It's a shame it's closed now.

AUC= Atlantic Union College? It's closed? Really?

[Talitha Cumi]

AUC= Atlantic Union College? It's closed? Really?

Yeah. I can't remember why exactly; I think it had to do with not filing something for accreditation, and probably also money. The yellow house (can't remember the name) where the music dept lived is being rented for music purposes still, but I don't think anyone's in the white house. That was my place, and I still miss it sometimes.

[Janes Heir]

Since this is the catch-all SDA thread right now... Does anyone remember the short film "Mary's Song". It is playing on LLBN right now, but it's at least 15 years old. It is quite sweet -- lots of emphasis on Jesus kindness to the marginalized. However, Mary is harassed by the rabbis to stop educating Jesus at home. It seems someone was worried about the poor persecuted homeschoolers.

[SamuraiKatz]

Since this is the catch-all SDA thread right now... Does anyone remember the short film "Mary's Song". It is playing on LLBN right now, but it's at least 15 years old. It is quite sweet -- lots of emphasis on Jesus kindness to the marginalized. However, Mary is harassed by the rabbis to stop educating Jesus at home. It seems someone was worried about the poor persecuted homeschoolers.

I haven't seen the film. Hopefully it will be played again. I do love the magic of the Roku. Back in the day I knew several homeschooling families that homeschooled without registering with the state. They really did have fear of the government takng away their children. These families all relied on materials from Bob Trefz, John Osborne, Vance Farrell and Jan Marcusson.

Do any of you remember a children's program call Janice's Attic? My now grown girls loved the show.

[Trynn]

Never heard of either one of those.