Wounded Eagles: Fundie Scandals

[coexist]

Are all Adventists vegan? I live pretty close to Oakwood and we have a lot of Adventists in my neighborhood. They have brought really interesting treats/cookies to the annual cookie exchange. They are all really nice, however, after about three years in a row when they wrote down our names and addresses and then we promptly got door-knockers we had to "disfellowship" them from the cookie exchange. I miss the healthful treats, but we can't be having that shit. Even the southern baptists (which would be everybody else in the neighborhood except me) objected to their door-knocking! That made me laugh.

Also, are SDA congregations somewhat segregated? Because I've never met a white Adventist down here. Not that it matters, just curious.

Not all Adventists are vegan or even vegetarian. Most SDAs follow the guide in Leviticus 11 about "clean/unclean" meat. I do know whole groups of Adventists who feel they're "more Adventist" since they're vegan.

I attended Oakwood and still live in the area. When I came in '94, I didn't think Huntsville HAD any white Adventists aside from the handful that worked or studied at OC (now OU), or attended church there. I just never saw them. There's a predominately white church on Whitesburg that I never knew about for the longest time!

We were usually stationed in areas that only had one church where everyone obviously worshipped together. In the bigger cities we were stationed at, there were always one or two black churches and one predominately white church. Our family would float between all of them since my dad would often be asked to preach. I had good friends at both places but there wasn't a lot of interaction between the two groups. (The worship style is often a different experience than whatever the norm is at their regular church, so that could be part of it.)

[Trynn]

I think it's more common to find vegetarians in the more conservative conferences. Almost all Michigan Adventists I've met are vegetarians. My family was actually considered odd because we ate (clean) meat.

There are separate conferences for black people in the SDA heirarchy. It was started back in the days when the church was just getting off the ground, and black people really had no rights. As far as I am aware, it just sort of... stayed that way.

The churches themselves are not officially segregated, but the smaller the population of the town, the less likely you are to find black Adventists. I grew up moving around a lot, and when I lived in Ann Arbor (6-7) and Lansing (8-11) There was a fair number of black people. Actually, I didn't notice race too much at that age, but I do remember being shocked at the age of 11 and moving to the Upper Peninsula and going, "omg where are all the black people?!?!?!?!" Since then, I've noticed that in smaller towns, the churches are mostly white. So it could just be that you were in a rural area?

As to the hand out discussed... that is a question I've always wondered about myself, but was not aware of Dr. Pipim (or anyone, really) ever bringing it up. I'm going to go to that link and read it. Dr. Pipim does A LOT of public speaking, so the odds that I would've been there for that particular talk of his are low, and I'm sure I would've remembered if I was there.

I actually started working on a book about what it is like to be Adventist... I'm not sure how far I got, but I will post it here if anyone is interested. I did make up a glossary of Adventist terms, which I'll try to look up and post anyway, since someone upthread said they'd find that helpful. Now to figure out which computer that is on...

SamaraiKatz, interesting. I've never before met someone who converted as an adult who also deconverted. I know very few deconverts in my life, and all 2 of them I've met grew up that way. What made you decide to come to the Church in the first place?

Even growing up I felt lied to, because, while EGW had been pushed at me all my life, I'd never heard of the Adventist interpretation on bible prophecy until I hit high school, and even then it was during a Q and A session with a pastor in the girs' dorm that the pastor had to go through a lot of red tape in order to hold, since it was in the evening. It wasn't in any officia context, and even he didn't bother to give me a full explanation.

What I had asked was, "Jesus wouldn't send you to hell if someone held you down and forced you to take the mark, right?"

his answer was, "that wouldn't happen, because the mark of the beast is Sunday worship."

and I was all, "whaaaaaat?"

and he was like, "moving on...."

I did some research. Apparently this was common among Adventists, and I had never been told. I felt betrayed.

[Trynn]

Apparently I didn't get too far on this, but here is part of the glossary of terms. If I ever wrote more, it's probably on the computer I don't have access to.

Glossary of terms:

Academy—Grades 9-12, particularly at a boarding school. Sometimes a person’s highs chool years are referred to as, “Academy†instead of “high school.†This is especially true if one went to an SDA boarding Academy, though it doesn’t always mean such. “Academy†to an Adventist simply means, “A school that goes up to 12th grade.†A junior academy, however, goes only up to 10th. Junior academies are more popular than full out Academies, and for this reason, it is common for high schoolers to go to boarding school their junior and senior years only.

Adventist—A person, place or thing that is of seventh day Adventist origin and or culture.

Advent—the soon coming of Jesus Christ

SDA—abbreviation for Seventh Day Adventist

Ellen White, Ellen G White, Mrs. White, etc. –A woman who is considered by SDAs to be a prophet, messenger of the Lord. Contrary to popular myth, she was not the founder of the church. She played a huge part in its founding, however, she was not, by a long shot, the one who started it all. We’ll get more into that later. She is the author of many books, all of which are considered by SDAs to be inspired. See also, “Spirit of Prophecy.â€

Inspired Writings—refers to the writings of Ellen G White

Spirit of Prophecy—refers to Ellen G White

Elementary School—seemingly self explanatory, one needs to understand that for Adventists, there is no such thing as middle school. Instead, Grades K-8 are simply lumped into the “elementary school†category. One might still consider oneself a middle schooler when talking with others. However, one would not be recognized as such by the school system.

Also, even though I had to learn this in elementary school, I blocked most of it out of my mind. Here is the wiki link to the governing structure of the Seventh Day Adventist church. This will help you all understand what we mean when we say things like, "michigan conference," "lake union conference," and, "general conference."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government ... ist_Church

[Trynn]

I think it's more common to find vegetarians in the more conservative conferences. Almost all Michigan Adventists I've met are vegetarians. My family was actually considered odd because we ate (clean) meat.

There are separate conferences for black people in the SDA heirarchy. It was started back in the days when the church was just getting off the ground, and black people really had no rights. As far as I am aware, it just sort of... stayed that way.

The churches themselves are not officially segregated, but the smaller the population of the town, the less likely you are to find black Adventists. I grew up moving around a lot, and when I lived in Ann Arbor (6-7) and Lansing (8-11) There was a fair number of black people. Actually, I didn't notice race too much at that age, but I do remember being shocked at the age of 11 and moving to the Upper Peninsula and going, "omg where are all the black people?!?!?!?!" Since then, I've noticed that in smaller towns, the churches are mostly white. So it could just be that you were in a rural area?

As to the hand out discussed... that is a question I've always wondered about myself, but was not aware of Dr. Pipim (or anyone, really) ever bringing it up. I'm going to go to that link and read it. Dr. Pipim does A LOT of public speaking, so the odds that I would've been there for that particular talk of his are low, and I'm sure I would've remembered if I was there.

ETA: after having read the link, whoa. My question is, would the woman be considered a victim (would someone mind elaborating, please? I believe she would be but I have no coherent thought behind it). But to ask the question, is it right. what the actual FUCK oh my god that would be THE LAST THING ON MY MIND in that situation. Maybe I'd be asking "did he rape me?" but I would NOT be asking if I did the right thing by attempting to (it's my opinion he'd just kill the kid anyway, regardless of whether or not I had sex with him) save my child.

I actually started working on a book about what it is like to be Adventist... I'm not sure how far I got, but I will post it here if anyone is interested. I did make up a glossary of Adventist terms, which I'll try to look up and post anyway, since someone upthread said they'd find that helpful. Now to figure out which computer that is on...

SamaraiKatz, interesting. I've never before met someone who converted as an adult who also deconverted. I know very few deconverts in my life, and all 2 of them I've met grew up that way. What made you decide to come to the Church in the first place?

Even growing up I felt lied to, because, while EGW had been pushed at me all my life, I'd never heard of the Adventist interpretation on bible prophecy until I hit high school, and even then it was during a Q and A session with a pastor in the girs' dorm that the pastor had to go through a lot of red tape in order to hold, since it was in the evening. It wasn't in any officia context, and even he didn't bother to give me a full explanation.

What I had asked was, "Jesus wouldn't send you to hell if someone held you down and forced you to take the mark, right?"

his answer was, "that wouldn't happen, because the mark of the beast is Sunday worship."

and I was all, "whaaaaaat?"

and he was like, "moving on...."

I did some research. Apparently this was common among Adventists, and I had never been told. I felt betrayed.

[SamuraiKatz]

I think it's more common to find vegetarians in the more conservative conferences. Almost all Michigan Adventists I've met are vegetarians. My family was actually considered odd because we ate (clean) meat.

There are separate conferences for black people in the SDA heirarchy. It was started back in the days when the church was just getting off the ground, and black people really had no rights. As far as I am aware, it just sort of... stayed that way.

The churches themselves are not officially segregated, but the smaller the population of the town, the less likely you are to find black Adventists. I grew up moving around a lot, and when I lived in Ann Arbor (6-7) and Lansing (8-11) There was a fair number of black people. Actually, I didn't notice race too much at that age, but I do remember being shocked at the age of 11 and moving to the Upper Peninsula and going, "omg where are all the black people?!?!?!?!" Since then, I've noticed that in smaller towns, the churches are mostly white. So it could just be that you were in a rural area?

As to the hand out discussed... that is a question I've always wondered about myself, but was not aware of Dr. Pipim (or anyone, really) ever bringing it up. I'm going to go to that link and read it. Dr. Pipim does A LOT of public speaking, so the odds that I would've been there for that particular talk of his are low, and I'm sure I would've remembered if I was there.

I actually started working on a book about what it is like to be Adventist... I'm not sure how far I got, but I will post it here if anyone is interested. I did make up a glossary of Adventist terms, which I'll try to look up and post anyway, since someone upthread said they'd find that helpful. Now to figure out which computer that is on...

SamaraiKatz, interesting. I've never before met someone who converted as an adult who also deconverted. I know very few deconverts in my life, and all 2 of them I've met grew up that way. What made you decide to come to the Church in the first place?

Even growing up I felt lied to, because, while EGW had been pushed at me all my life, I'd never heard of the Adventist interpretation on bible prophecy until I hit high school, and even then it was during a Q and A session with a pastor in the girs' dorm that the pastor had to go through a lot of red tape in order to hold, since it was in the evening. It wasn't in any officia context, and even he didn't bother to give me a full explanation.

What I had asked was, "Jesus wouldn't send you to hell if someone held you down and forced you to take the mark, right?"

his answer was, "that wouldn't happen, because the mark of the beast is Sunday worship."

and I was all, "whaaaaaat?"

and he was like, "moving on...."

I did some research. Apparently this was common among Adventists, and I had never been told. I felt betrayed.

I was drawn to the church via the George Vandeman era "It Is Written" program. Was a regular viewer for several years. He was such a nice guy and he had this vegetarian cookbook. I was a vegetarian. I met some real SDA people when they knocked on my door during ingathering. The were really nice people. The faith seemed biblically sound on a superficial level. The Springdale SDA church was 5 minutes from my house. No real mentions of EGW or her extrabiblical writings until I was hooked and baptised. Also I grew up in Duggarland ground zero. SDA teachings and worship seemed on the surface to be the exact opposited of the Baptist and Pentecostal jerks I'd been exposed to in my formative years.

I left the church for several reasons.

I think that it is dishonest for an organization to hold Prophecy Seminars while holding back the fact that they are sponsored by the SDA church. Back in the day, it was common for these events to be held at rented sites away from the church to draw more people in.

People that I looked up to knew Danny Shelton was a kreepy crook circa 1993. I was told to look the other way because getting the last days message out was important. Danny "repented" so that made everthing okay.. 3ABN was Gods tool...etc

I couldn' t accept the " Investigative Judgement" or that whole mark of the beast teaching.

I couldn't accept Ellen White as a prophet and her writings as an extension of the Bible.

I am gay. That used to be considered a one way ticket to the lake o fire. I lived in Arkansas didn't know about SDA kinship until much later.

[treemom]

I actually knew the mark of the beast is Sunday worship stuff. I wonder how much of the SDA theology problems are known by those who are on the outside, but not church members. Sort of like the LDS church

[SamuraiKatz]

Not all Adventists are vegan or even vegetarian. Most SDAs follow the guide in Leviticus 11 about "clean/unclean" meat. I do know whole groups of Adventists who feel they're "more Adventist" since they're vegan.

I attended Oakwood and still live in the area. When I came in '94, I didn't think Huntsville HAD any white Adventists aside from the handful that worked or studied at OC (now OU), or attended church there. I just never saw them. There's a predominately white church on Whitesburg that I never knew about for the longest time!

We were usually stationed in areas that only had one church where everyone obviously worshipped together. In the bigger cities we were stationed at, there were always one or two black churches and one predominately white church. Our family would float between all of them since my dad would often be asked to preach. I had good friends at both places but there wasn't a lot of interaction between the two groups. (The worship style is often a different experience than whatever the norm is at their regular church, so that could be part of it.)

Thank you for bringing attention to racial division within the church. I am glad you had the opportunity to experience a larger piece of SDA culture than is available in my area. When I was active in the church, our only black member was an ethopian man who was attending the University of Arkansas.

[SamuraiKatz]

I was drawn to the church via the George Vandeman era "It Is Written" program. Was a regular viewer for several years. He was such a nice guy and he had this vegetarian cookbook. I was a vegetarian. I met some real SDA people when they knocked on my door during ingathering. The were really nice people. The faith seemed biblically sound on a superficial level. The Springdale SDA church was 5 minutes from my house. No real mentions of EGW or her extrabiblical writings until I was hooked and baptised. Also I grew up in Duggarland ground zero. SDA teachings and worship seemed on the surface to be the exact opposited of the Baptist and Pentecostal jerks I'd been exposed to in my formative years.

I left the church for several reasons.

I think that it is dishonest for an organization to hold Prophecy Seminars while holding back the fact that they are sponsored by the SDA church. Back in the day, it was common for these events to be held at rented sites away from the church to draw more people in.

People that I looked up to knew Danny Shelton was a kreepy crook circa 1993. I was told to look the other way because getting the last days message out was important. Danny "repented" so that made everthing okay.. 3ABN was Gods tool...etc

I couldn' t accept the " Investigative Judgement" or that whole mark of the beast teaching.

I couldn't accept Ellen White as a prophet and her writings as an extension of the Bible.

I am gay. That used to be considered a one way ticket to the lake o fire. I lived in Arkansas didn't know about SDA kinship until much later.

I think the not telling the whole truth is an ingrained part of SDA culture. Doesn't seem to matter if you were born to the faith or converted. Not good by a long shot.

[SamuraiKatz]

I actually knew the mark of the beast is Sunday worship stuff. I wonder how much of the SDA theology problems are known by those who are on the outside, but not church members. Sort of like the LDS chur

[Janes Heir]

I am trying to follow the story from the posts on this thread; however, I keep coming back to this question. What the hell!? My apologies for not being able to get past this one question. What was considered the correct answer for this particular question? Do some people not realize that the mother in the question is a rape victim?

http://www.drpipim.org/seminar-handouts-contemporaryissues-101/133-faithful-unto-death-seminar-handouts.html

If you think that the hand out would be better discussed in a different thread tell me because some of the questions amaze me. I don't want to distract from this thread.

Well, I don't know what happened to my copy of the book, so don't remember if the "appropriate" answers were discussed. Judging from the link, I don't think so. However, the very way the question is framed as Yes or No denies the validity of rape. That's hardly uncommon among religious consevatives, but I think it's especially telling for someone later accused of rape.

I don't mind if you discuss the questions here (quite interested myself) but may I suggest you ensure the link to Pipim's site is broken, especially since we have someone on here he may know?

[Trynn]

Well, I don't know what happened to my copy of the book, so don't remember if the "appropriate" answers were discussed. Judging from the link, I don't think so. However, the very way the question is framed as Yes or No denies the validity of rape. That's hardly uncommon among religious consevatives, but I think it's especially telling for someone later accused of rape.

I don't mind if you discuss the questions here (quite interested myself) but may I suggest you ensure the link to Pipim's site is broken, especially since we have someone on here he may know?

Yes. PLEASE break that link. If people IRL found out... it would REALLY not go well...

Dr. Pipim does know me by face/name.

[Talitha Cumi]

I will say one thing I can't give up is Worthington products. Just bought a whole case of frozen Dinner Roast at my local ABC.... Yummy!! (dH still vegetarian)

LOL! I will defend my Morningstar Stripples to the death, but the rest of it is yuck. My family was one of the few meat-eating families though, so I just couldn't get used to the grillers, the frychik, the fake hot dogs whose name I can't remember...

[Talitha Cumi]

Have u tried. /recoveringadventists.tribe.net/. That's actually where I saw the I :multi-heart: Haystacks shirt.... :whistle:

Edited to change to right link

:lol: :lol: :lol: My husband (who grew up in the CHURCH OF THE BEAST) will never understand how Fritos, beans and cheese make a meal.

[Talitha Cumi]

So I found this really interesting although I didn't follow a lot of it. Even with doing some supplementary wiki reading. Anyway to get an SDA primer?

Also, when googling the worthington foods I discovered the Morningstar farms link which I find interesting. And then the purchase by Kellogg which of course has the SDA links. Insight? Commentary?

Here's a recent email exchange between me and Mr. Cumi:

Mr. C: Hey! My boss is looking at starting a non-profit at (and possibly attending) a SDA church. Though the non-profit isn't necessarily going to be directly related to SDA (I'm not sure exactly, she didn't elaborate). I overheard her talking and mentioned that your family is Adventist, and she asked me what the main differences are. (One, so she can decide if she wants to go there, though she woudln't necessarily convert. Two, I guess, so she doesn't do anything stupid. ;)

I said they don't believe in Hell, but rather that believers will be taken to heaven and non-believers... I wasn't quite sure. First I said they'll just burn up when the rapture comes, but then I wasn't sure. I said that a lot are vegetarians, most don't drink, and some take the Sabbath (from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset) very seriously. I.e., G*** M*** won't watch television.

Then she mentioned that a church she used to go to was "koo-koo," which reminded me of SDA communion and foot washing. She found that amusing. ;) [Note- Foot washing: communion isn't just taking the bread and wineI MEAN GRAPE JUICE, but pairs of people ritually washing each others' feet.]

Am I missing anything important?

Me: Lol! Okay, let's see...

There's no actual rapture, but yes, the wicked will be burned up at the resurrection. Also, the dead in Christ don't go to heaven immediately after death; they stay dead until the resurrection. Sabbath is srs bsns. Even if you do non-Jesus-related activities on Sabbath, you don't mention them. Growing up, we weren't even allowed to swim on Sabbath, idk exactly why. (Mom and Dad did change their minds later on when they realized it didn't really make sense, especially in Florida.)

If she wants to make friends/connections, she should go to Sabbath School as well. Traditionally, Sabbath School went from 9:30-11, and church from 11-12, but some churches (like M***) do 10-11:30 and 11:30-12:30. I guess to give people more time to sleep. :) There are different types of adult Sabbath School. Some are geared toward women, moms, singles, men, or other stuff, idk what. I never went to Sabbath School after high school. Some are just "let's apply the Bible to daily life," others are "let's study the Bible in conjunction with Christian philosophers." (Dad likes that one.) Because the classes are pretty small and interactive, she will get to know people better that way.

Oh wait, I just remembered I did go to Sabbath School at Sligo, and you went with me. So you've seen it. :) (ILU for doing that.)

Communion: Wine is grape juice, and it's unsweetened and doesn't taste good. And footwashing, yes. M*** allows anyone to take communion, but other churches might not.

Dancing, wearing jewelry, drinking, smoking, and meat are traditionally looked down on. Adventists are focused on health, hence all the hospitals. If meat is eaten, it has to be "clean meat" according to kosher rules-- no pork or shellfish. The meat itself doesn't have to be certified kosher. (You'll notice my mom eats shrimp. Apparently that's fine, but lobster is wrong. ;) I love my mother.) If she eats any of that, for God's sake don't tell anyone!

Another main thing: Ellen White was a prophet who had visions from God and wrote a series of books called the Spirit of Prophecy. The books are officially considered divinely inspired, but a bunch of them are on cultural things of the time (1800s, early 1900s) rather than religion. The Great Controversy, a book about the fight between Satan and God culminating in the Last Days, is the most important one. (There was a huge scandal when some Adventist scholars found out that she plagiarized a bunch of her stuff, but idk the details.)

There is no "once saved, always saved" doctrine like there is in Baptist and other conservative churches. You can lose your salvation at any time by turning your back on Christ or the church.

Apart from that, I think it's basic conservative Protestant doctrine-- no saints, Satan and demons are literal beings who tempt people, salvation is through God's grace and not works (though works are important too), baptism is full-immersion of preteens to adults.

To sum up, if she wants to avoid doing stupid things:

Wear a nice dress to church. Never pants. People dress up.

Don't wear jewelry. If you do, keep it discreet. Depending on the church, some might wear jewelry, but it's best not to until you discover the lay of the land.

Don't talk about eating meat.

Take communion if the church allows and you want to, but in general no one will judge you if you don't. Communion is only 4 times a year, but on no prescribed dates, so it can vary from one church to the next.

That's all I can think of right now. Email me with any further questions. :)

Mr. C: Boy, ask an Adventist (even non-practicing) about their religion and stand back!. ;) Thank you! I can forward this to her?

And if Satan, exists but Hell doesn't, where does he live? Not to mention all those demons.

Me: Hey, when you grow up in it, you know all the tiny details. :) Sure, forward it, but let her know it's just a jumble of stuff, and if she's looking to convert, she needs to get a much more indepth explanation.

Satan and the demons (who are the fallen angels from the original war in heaven) don't have a home as such. They just roam around the earth tempting people.

Mr. C: I don't think she's looking to convert. Just wants to know what she's getting into. Oh, but nothing can prepare her. I mean, geez, you have to get drowned to join. That's some gang initiation shit right there.

[debrand]

I am curious about SDA beliefs on ethics. The questions in the hand out have yes/no answers which leads me to believe that there must be a correct answer. From my point of view, these are easy questions to answer. Use the tithe to feed your family and eat the food but the fact that the questions are on the handout make me think that the answers aren't as easy for the SDA members

drpipim.org/seminar-handouts-contemporaryissues-101/133-faithful-unto-death-seminar-handouts.html

9. The Bible teaches that the tithe (one-tenth of one's earnings) belongs wholly to the Lord. But your situation is critical. Because of your biblical convictions, you’ve given-up your only source of livelihood, plunging your family into a very desperate financial crisis. Your neighbors are ridiculing your Christian faith because you are unable to pay your bills and provide medical care and food for your family. Your child has been diagnosed with a severe form of cancer requiring immediate medical care. Would it be right, under these circumstances, to use the tithe to procure food for your starving family and medical help for your sick child?

5. You are a Seventh-day Adventist, part of a group of starving refugees escaping on foot from a war situation. After going several days without food, someone meets your group of dying refugees and offers you some hot soup and wheat crackers (biscuits). The soup contains ham (pork) and the ingredients in the wheat-crackers include lard (pig fat). As an Adventist you believe that it is wrong to eat unclean foods (Lev 11; Deut 14). But given your critical situation, would it be right to partake of the soup and wheat-crackers in order to gain much-needed strength for your journey?

[debrand]

I can no longer break my link but I reported my own post to the moderators so hopefully, they will break the link for us.

[Janes Heir]

At least in my conservative circle, the answers to those questions were pretty clear: God would provide if you were faithful and didn't touch the tithe.

Better to starve than to eat pork. A family friend used to recount with horror when one of her Adventist professors asked, "If you were stranded on an island with nothing to eat but a pig, would you eat the pig?" The implication was that he didn't think it would be wrong and this proved the terrible apostacy of the church.

[happy atheist]

I can no longer break my link but I reported my own post to the moderators so hopefully, they will break the link for us.

Got it.

[Janes Heir]

When I started this thread I wanted to talk about Jim Hohnberger, because his confession reminded me of Doug Phillips is a tool. Despite reports that he groomed a minor from the age of 12 and then took advantage of her for 8 years while she worked for him, he's back to travelling the country speaking on "empowered living". Here's a bit about his ministry: http://www.empoweredlivingministries.org/MeetUs.htm

And here's the confession: http://giovannihashimoto.com/blog/2011/517/jim-hohnberger-abruptly-admits-affair-and-resigns/

Many idiots in the comments, but angrywoman is fabulous in smashing the patriarchy.

[Talitha Cumi]

Maybe we should start a new thread for ex-SDA?

[SamuraiKatz]

Maybe we should start a new thread for ex-SDA?

Might be a good idea. A lot of the stuff Doug Phillips is a tool and others are floating about is so similar to the Historic Seventh Day Adventist movement circa 1989-1994. Google A. Jan Marcusson, Bob Trefz, Hartland Institute, Prophecy Countdown(John Osborne) and Steps to Christ.

[Trynn]

Maybe we should start a new thread for ex-SDA?

I think we should form our own former Adventist FJ support group.

Thanks Debrand :) much appreciated.

My family grew up eating meat and fake meat, so none of it seemed odd to me till just this past year when I got ahold of other veggie food by other companies, and realized it tasted better.

When I tried to eat shrimp, I was told I shouldn't because it was unclean.

Ellen White wrote more than just the Spirit of Prophecy series. Those were her main ones, but she wrote a lot of other books, and no, I'm not counting the books that are merely compilations of other stuff she wrote.

Even if they didn't grow up that way, most Adventists can absolutely churn out multiple paragraphs about their beliefs. Growing up I used to think converts had it better because, coming into the church, they would have a lot of people making sure they understood things, while I , a born Adventist, had to fight to get someone to pay attention to me when I asked for help understanding something.

I googled pictures of Jim Hohnberger, and I don't believe I know the man. I THINK I recognize the cover of his book, but I used in a new and used Seventh Day Adventist bookstore, so that might not say much. I think his confession is similar to Doug's: I did not have sexual relations with that woman.

I still love haystacks. When asked, I just tell people they're "taco salad." My meat eating relatives do actually put taco meat in them, so it isn't really that much of a stretch.

[bionicmlle]

Just catching up on thread! THe most important thing I have to say is that haystacks need lettuce and tomatoes on top.

SamaraiKatz - so interesting to read your history. George Vandeman was a very kind man and DH's family knew that family well. There are some really wonderful things about Adventism but when you get to that end times and investigative judgement crap, it gets scary. I know it's not unique to Adventism, but I certainly grew up with a fear that my sins would be broadcast SuperBowl style after Jesus' came. Anyone remember the My Story Hour tape about the judgement? Scared the hell out of me. Thank you so much Uncle Dan and Aunt Sue…

As for the segregation - that is a wonderful question. Churches in most metropolitan areas ARE segregated. I have lived in a relatively heavily-SDA area and we had MANY different churches, some divided just for language sake: Chinese, Romanian, Indonesian, Spanish, Filipino, Japanese, a largely african american church, to name just a few. Additionally, there are several english-speaking congregations that cater to different groups - younger, older, more liberal, etc. Growing up in a rural area, however, there were just two: Spanish and english. :)

And to the poster who only likes Stripples as their vegemeat…. Ugh! That's probably the ONE I can't stand. I even liked Nuteena better, at least it didn't stick with ya all day. :)

[Trynn]

Stripple is tolerable but I HATED nuteena. I never understood the extreme love for it. They stopped making it a few years back and people were upset. I couldn't understand why.

I hate raw tomatoes, so I never put them on my haystack.

I think George vandeman was a little before my time. Who was he?

I remember reading that verse in the bible about all secrets being revealed and I was like, fuck, there going to know I... Well, I didn't have a word for it then, but I now know it was masturbation. No one told me that, and i sI spent 8 years of my childhood thinking I was the only one, and that i would spend the entirely of eternity bein laughed at and ostracized for it.

Thanks religion...

Don't remember much your story hour tapes, but oh god do I remember uncle Arthur stories. Even at that young age I thought a lot of those stories were STUPID. My dad even agreed with me about one of them. He said that the mother having just combed a girls hair was a dumb reason not to let her play in the hay stack (a real one, not food). Of mother had said yes, daughter wouldn't have felt the need to sneak to the other side, where it was more dangerous and she almost suffocated.

[SamuraiKatz]

Stripple is tolerable but I HATED nuteena. I never understood the extreme love for it. They stopped making it a few years back and people were upset. I couldn't understand why.

I hate raw tomatoes, so I never put them on my haystack.

I think George vandeman was a little before my time. Who was he?

I remember reading that verse in the bible about all secrets being revealed and I was like, fuck, there going to know I... Well, I didn't have a word for it then, but I now know it was masturbation. No one told me that, and i sI spent 8 years of my childhood thinking I was the only one, and that i would spend the entirely of eternity bein laughed at and ostracized for it.

Thanks religion...

Don't remember much your story hour tapes, but oh god do I remember uncle Arthur stories. Even at that young age I thought a lot of those stories were STUPID. My dad even agreed with me about one of them. He said that the mother having just combed a girls hair was a dumb reason not to let her play in the hay stack (a real one, not food). Of mother had said yes, daughter wouldn't have felt the need to sneak to the other side, where it was more dangerous and she almost suffocated.

To me Stripples and Morningstar Farms breakfast strips are pretty much the same. Fake bacon sandwiches are yummy--not too often though.

George Vandeman:

and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Vandeman

I still have Vandeman's book 365 Meatless Meals

My kids liked some of the Uncle Arthur stories, but they had discerning minds and knew when to call a spade a spade.

I think I may have taken my kids to a live Uncle Dan and Aunt Sue presentation at the Siloam Springs SDA church back in the day. ( I'm dating myself..the older girls are 26 and 22.).

I think if I lived in CA and could go to a "liberal" SDA church, I'd probably go every once in a while.