Air-Drops Bibles Over North Korea get people killed.

[2xx1xy1JD]

This. 2xx1xy1JD - I also admire acts of rebellion and resistance by true believers in times of great crisis and oppression, and I do not find it crazy to think that a Christian living under a totalitarian regime hostile to any manifestation of their religion would risk their life to hang on to a Bible, or to make sure that other Christians would have their holy scriptures as well. However, I don't see any evidence that the pastor discussed in the original article is actually getting Bibles to the hidden North Korean Christians. He's literally throwing Bibles across the border and assuming that whoever they land on would obviously want them, not realizing or caring about the harm he could cause. If he wants to really support North Korean Christians in their resistance against the dictatorship, he should find a better way of targeting his activism so that it will really make a difference.

Good point about unintentionally causing harm to those who may not be interested in the Bibles.

There aren't, however, a lot of opportunities to get the Bibles in via other methods. North Korea also doesn't really care about its image abroad (except to want to come across as being badass), so protests aren't that effective.

[formergothardite]

I have no problem with them trying to smuggle Bibles in for people who want them, but they shouldn't do it in a way that could very easily cause people who do not want Bibles to be killed or put into work camps. Yeah, there aren't a lot of ways to get Bibles in, but find one that is not going to put the lives of unsuspecting people in danger. Can you imagine trying to survive there without making the government mad, seeing a box, picking it up to see what it is and next thing you know you are going to be killed for having a Bible and spouse and kids are going to be worked to death in a camp?

[fullmetalheart]

I have no problem with them trying to smuggle Bibles in for people who want them, but they shouldn't do it in a way that could very easily cause people who do not want Bibles to be killed or put into work camps. Yeah, there aren't a lot of ways to get Bibles in, but find one that is not going to put the lives of unsuspecting people in danger. Can you imagine trying to survive there without making the government mad, seeing a box, picking it up to see what it is and next thing you know you are going to be killed for having a Bible and spouse and kids are going to be worked to death in a camp?

Exactly. There aren't a lot of ways to get Bibles in there, per se, but I do know there are other ways to get the Christian message into North Korea. You don't need a Bible per se to be a Christian. I know of a radio ministry off the top of my head, among others.

There was an episode of 19K&C where the kids teamed up with Voice of the Martyrs and made parachutes/decorated them. It partially made me ill, because I don't like the idea of this type of ministry. While as a Christian, of course I want people to come to Christ, I don't want to harm innocent people in the path of it. If someone wants to die for Christ, that should be their choice. Not someone else imposing their beliefs upon them.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Exactly. There aren't a lot of ways to get Bibles in there, per se, but I do know there are other ways to get the Christian message into North Korea. You don't need a Bible per se to be a Christian. I know of a radio ministry off the top of my head, among others.

There was an episode of 19K&C where the kids teamed up with Voice of the Martyrs and made parachutes/decorated them. It partially made me ill, because I don't like the idea of this type of ministry. While as a Christian, of course I want people to come to Christ, I don't want to harm innocent people in the path of it. If someone wants to die for Christ, that should be their choice. Not someone else imposing their beliefs upon them.

Good point.

I remember that part of the advice that was given re contacting Jews and giving out religious objects in formerly Communist countries was to avoid doing anything to put people at risk.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=dwdDV_6 ... viet+union

This was all I could find online from The (First) Jewish Catalog, but it shows a glimpse of the advice given. I remember they advised bringing one of everything instead of multiple sets of items, and allowing others to approach you first (since locals would have a better sense of whether they were being watched).

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think that it would be fine if they were helping give Bibles directly to North Korean Christians to help them to practice their religion despite oppression and persecution. Real persecution, not what American Christians whine about.

But with this, they are just sending them to anyone. Not everyone wants a Bible, especially when owning one could get you killed.

Its sad that there are people in danger of being killed for their religion. Everyone deserves the right to practice their religion freely as long as it doesn't infringe on anyone elses rights or cause harm to others.

[SPHASH]

The thing I never understood about evangelical missionaries like Schrader and this guy is, why go to a country where you are not welcome? I'm a Christian and I have to admit I don't feel sorry for missionaries that go to China, Korean and Iran and get arrested for trying to spread the Word. They should go to Scandinavia where about only 25 percent are Christians and the scenery is much better too.

[Peppercorn]

From the title, I thought it was going to be about a crate of Bibles being dropped on people and crushing them.

"As God is my witness, I thought bibles could fly!"

[Magdelope]

The thing I never understood about evangelical missionaries like Schrader and this guy is, why go to a country where you are not welcome? I'm a Christian and I have to admit I don't feel sorry for missionaries that go to China, Korean and Iran and get arrested for trying to spread the Word. They should go to Scandinavia where about only 25 percent are Christians and the scenery is much better too.

I agree with your logic but in the same time, no! Don't send them here! ;)

[snarkopolis]

It's difficult to sort out though, because North Korea is such a closed country that very little word gets out from actual North Koreans. However, this man most likely knows that he has no ability to rescue them. That's fairly obvious. Chances are he's responding to what he believes are requests from North Koreans for Bibles--whether the requests are real or percieved, that is the question. Y'all may well think it's dumb, but it's not at all abnormal in Christian history that people would risk their lives to have and keep a Bible, or even a few pages of a Bible. IOW, whether or not North Koreans are getting word out that they want Bibles, it wouldn't be inconcieveable that they were actually asking for them. Even in the HuffPo article that seems to be his intent, not saving North Korea via proseletization.

There are several mission organizations that do Bible air drops. In the materials I've seen, the goal isn't just proseletizing. Yes they hope that a North Korean guard will pick up a page of the Gospel and come to Jesus. But they also believe that they are providing something precious and much wanted to NK's hidden Christians. They are aware that there are North Korean Christians and believe--rightly or wrongly--that those Christians want access to Bibles while they're stuck in that miserable place. Several of these organizations *also* seek to help defectors and are connected to the "underground railroad" providing safehouses and help for defectors.

What part of they KILL people in North Korea for having a Bible aren't we getting. If he wants to be a GOOD Christian, tie some bread and bags of rice onto those balloons and send those over. North Korea just executed over 80 people in public for various crimes against the State. In a country where telling on someone for being a Christian could get your family fed this dude isn't helping. Send food, not bibles. :wtf:

[FloraKitty35]

Some of the North Koreans should look over the bibles for an address and send back a note asking for food and to request that next time they air drop some porno mags.

[thoughtful]

"As God is my witness, I thought bibles could fly!"

I do appreciate the serious discussion in this thread, and have learned some things.

But every time I look at the thread title, the bolded is what I think! :embarrassed:

[SPHASH]

I agree with your logic but in the same time, no! Don't send them here! ;)

Where at in Scandinavia are you at? Always wanted to visit there.

[fullmetalheart]

"As God is my witness, I thought bibles could fly!"

"They're dropping like wet cement!"

[LittleMama]

I saw someone mention VOM (Voice of the Martyers). I get the newsletter (If you are a Christian it is a great way to see/understand/give to those in persecuted countries who want prayers, aid, their story shared with other believers. I've never seen anything about drops on there, so I can't say one way or another about that but I do know that they send out packages to people who want them, usually with Bibles, recorders, cassette players, coats, boots, socks, etc. They have people from all countries that have religious freedom working too, mostly caring in safe houses for refugees. Anyways...) I got a newsletter awhile ago about NK and they were saying one of the only ways to contact Christians still in NK was from relatives who either fled or where sent to SK. It shared how Trac-phone type phones help people call their believing relatives or friends and share Bible stories or give them verses or quotes to write down. It said that was most of the extent, because if you were just some stranger trying to "evangelize" a-la missionary style people would most likely turn you in or shun you. Most people sharing the Bible from SK to NK are North Koreans themselves, which seems to make the most sense.

[LilMissMetaphor]

When you can get imprisoned in NK for basically blowing your nose wrong, the solution is not to stop handing someone a Kleenex.

[patsymae]

The thing I never understood about evangelical missionaries like Schrader and this guy is, why go to a country where you are not welcome? I'm a Christian and I have to admit I don't feel sorry for missionaries that go to China, Korean and Iran and get arrested for trying to spread the Word. They should go to Scandinavia where about only 25 percent are Christians and the scenery is much better too.

Me, too. I remember those missionaries who went into Taliban-controlled Afghanistan, masqueraded as aid workers, passed out bibles that were translated into Dari (then tried to claim they were just personal bibles), with the aim not of reaching persecuted Christians but of converting Muslims, and then had to be rescued when they got caught. After they got back to the US they admitted they weren't aid workers and their aim was to establish Christian churches (like the Taliban wouldn't notice?)That they endangered the lives of the locals caught with a bible, or maybe just even associating with them; the people who had to go in and rescued them; and legitimate aid workers who could now be accused of being Christian missionaries, didn't bother them a bit. The arrogance is mind-boggling.

[fullmetalheart]

I saw someone mention VOM (Voice of the Martyers). I get the newsletter (If you are a Christian it is a great way to see/understand/give to those in persecuted countries who want prayers, aid, their story shared with other believers. I've never seen anything about drops on there, so I can't say one way or another about that but I do know that they send out packages to people who want them, usually with Bibles, recorders, cassette players, coats, boots, socks, etc. They have people from all countries that have religious freedom working too, mostly caring in safe houses for refugees. Anyways...) I got a newsletter awhile ago about NK and they were saying one of the only ways to contact Christians still in NK was from relatives who either fled or where sent to SK. It shared how Trac-phone type phones help people call their believing relatives or friends and share Bible stories or give them verses or quotes to write down. It said that was most of the extent, because if you were just some stranger trying to "evangelize" a-la missionary style people would most likely turn you in or shun you. Most people sharing the Bible from SK to NK are North Koreans themselves, which seems to make the most sense.

VOM is really good in general. I didn't know they did air drop Bibles until it was on an episode of 19K&C.

[So Many Lies]

Me, too. I remember those missionaries who went into Taliban-controlled Afghanistan, masqueraded as aid workers, passed out bibles that were translated into Dari (then tried to claim they were just personal bibles), with the aim not of reaching persecuted Christians but of converting Muslims, and then had to be rescued when they got caught. After they got back to the US they admitted they weren't aid workers and their aim was to establish Christian churches (like the Taliban wouldn't notice?)That they endangered the lives of the locals caught with a bible, or maybe just even associating with them; the people who had to go in and rescued them; and legitimate aid workers who could now be accused of being Christian missionaries, didn't bother them a bit. The arrogance is mind-boggling.

I know some koreans who have just gone on a mission to syria. Since none of them speak arabic or any local language (or much english) It doesn't seem like a good idea to me but maybe there's kudos among some groups in going to war torn, dangerous, precarious or hostile location.

[Patsy]

When you can get imprisoned in NK for basically blowing your nose wrong, the solution is not to stop handing someone a Kleenex.

What is, then? You say that like we all know the solution but we're pussyfooting around it. NK is a hostage situation. We can't charge in with firepower. Asserting diplomatic pressures of different levels from their semi "allies" hasn't worked yet. But what you sure as shit don't need in aa hostage situation is some idiot charging in, saying "they're not allowed tissues", forcing them into the hostages' hands and them charging off before the gunman turns around to see their disobedient hostage.

[formergothardite]

What is, then? You say that like we all know the solution but we're pussyfooting around it. NK is a hostage situation. We can't charge in with firepower. Asserting diplomatic pressures of different levels from their semi "allies" hasn't worked yet. But what you sure as shit don't need in aa hostage situation is some idiot charging in, saying "they're not allowed tissues", forcing them into the hostages' hands and them charging off before the gunman turns around to see their disobedient hostage.

Exactly. When a Kleenex being found near your house can get you killed and your family shipped off to work camps the solution isn't to strap Kleenexes on to balloons and drop them on people most likely who do not need or want a Kleenex.

[LittleMama]

Saw this on FB: Public Executions in 7 NK cities on Nov 3, for watching SK videos, pornography, and owning Bibles.

http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/new ... |newslist1

[Burris]

I wonder if he knows what people might face for haing those books in their possession.

[JesusFightClub]

Airdropping Bibles is surely evangelisation, not getting Bibles directly to those who want them. After all, what guarantee have you that there are Christians desperate for Bibles anywhere near the drop zone?

Aside from that, NK is a puzzle to most people, communists included. I think they have taken a distortion common to Stalinism and exaggerated it because of their cultural background and other factors.

Of course there is some support on the Left for the DPRK, but it's really marginalised and tends to consist of two groups - old-school Stalinists who don't want to abandon any of the "fraternal socialist countries" no matter how widely deviate from anything that looks like socialism, and younger comrades who have a healthy distrust of the media and propaganda, which leads them to assume that all of what is said about NK is lies as well. The first group will eventually die off, and the second are likely to change their views.

[formergothardite]

I wonder if he knows what people might face for haing those books in their possession.

He has to know. He appears to care more about evangelizing than the lives of innocent people who might not even want a Bible.