Air-Drops Bibles Over North Korea get people killed.

[doggie]

So this guy feels good making new Christians into persecuted Christians. I guess he feels if he makes enough Christians all will be right.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/0 ... 46624.html

 

A Colorado-based Christian group is air-dropping Bibles on North Korea.

 

Over the past year, Pastor Eric Foley and his Christian mission group, Seoul USA, have released around 50,000 40-foot homemade, hydrogen-filled balloons outfitted with Bibles and personal testimonials over rural areas of the country, Fox News reports. Bibles are attached to the balloons in a box or a bag.

 

In North Korea, citizens are forced to follow the state ideology known as "The Juche Idea." Christians there "are the most persecuted believers on earth," Foley told Fox. He estimates that there are around 100,000 Christians in the country. The network reports that 30,000 of those Christians "are believed to be locked inside concentration camps, where they are overworked, starved, tortured, and killed."

 

In 2009, a 33-year-old woman was publicly executed in North Korea after being accused of distributing the Bible. Kenneth Bae, an American missionary, was arrested in North Korea and sentenced to 15 years of labor for "crimes against the state" in May.

 

Foley, who is in his late 40s, told Fox that believers in North Korea have a demand for Bibles nonetheless. He and his wife, a South Korean immigrant, first began sending balloons in 2006, from a location in South Korea near the North Korean border.

 

Even after seven years of sending them up, though, Foley says, "I get choked up, every time, as I let go and watch it take off."

[GeoBQn]

From the title, I thought it was going to be about a crate of Bibles being dropped on people and crushing them.

[doggie]

About the same thing in reality.

[crazyforkate]

Yeah, killing them doesn't make it any better if you're sending them to the right afterlife, dumbfuck. I hope there's some kind of "pestering the enemy" law that could get his ass thrown in prison.

[FloraKitty35]

The North Koreans needed the toilet paper.

[doggie]

The North Koreans needed the toilet paper.

or food years ago.

[Savoring Samsara]

Dear fundamentalists - North Korea is a great example of a nation in which Christians are actually persecuted. Actually learning about that will make hearing people say "Happy Holidays," and having to acknowledge the fact that atheists, gay people, etc. exist and have human rights too, pale in comparison.

(That said, literally throwing Bibles at the North Koreans is radically unhelpful. What if somebody picks it up without understanding what it is and gets sent to a prison camp or killed over it? Great witness for Christ, there.)

[LittleMama]

You guys are actually making light/snarking about a country that has no freedom of religion? ANY other religion. Maybe some sober reading material on NK will do some good.

[formergothardite]

You guys are actually making light/snarking about a country that has no freedom of religion? ANY other religion. Maybe some sober reading material on NK will do some good.

The impression I got from this thread is that the man sending Bible's over there was making light of the lives of people in NK and people were snarking on him not the people suffering in NK. If someone picks up a Bible he sends over there and is found out then they will die a horrible way. He is killing people by sending Bibles over there. Food would be more useful than Bibles and probably less likely to kill the people. I'm not even sure that they could use the Bibles as toilet paper without getting in trouble. The situation in NK is very serious and putting the lives of people over there is danger to "save their souls" is selfish on the part of the guy sending them.

[Ms Jess]

The impression I got from this thread is that the man sending Bible's over there was making light of the lives of people in NK and people were snarking on him not the people suffering in NK. If someone picks up a Bible he sends over there and is found out then they will die a horrible way. He is killing people by sending Bibles over there. Food would be more useful than Bibles and probably less likely to kill the people. I'm not even sure that they could use the Bibles as toilet paper without getting in trouble. The situation in NK is very serious and putting the lives of people over there is danger to "save their souls" is selfish on the part of the guy sending them.

Yup, this.

[doggie]

Yup, this.

right the poor people stuck with such a monster. but it pisses me off this guy does not care if he endangers the lives of people he wants to "Save" but then again it never stopped missionaries before damaging and killing one way or the other people they are Saving.

[lawlifelgbt]

I read some books, notably Barbara Demick's "Nothing to Envy" about North Korea (she talks to defectors). She mentions that being caught with a Bible is so severely punished that in Christian groups, they'll each keep some pages of the Bible if they can do so at all, or try to memorize so they don't need the copy. Customs officials poke bags of rice and containers of kimchi, etc. with sticks, since sometimes Bibles are smuggled in in those large, hard-to-search packages. Defectors who go to China or South Korea may just get prison sentences normally, but are immediately executed for even having contact with Christians.

He's not saving them.

[maybeizfundie]

It's difficult to sort out though, because North Korea is such a closed country that very little word gets out from actual North Koreans. However, this man most likely knows that he has no ability to rescue them. That's fairly obvious. Chances are he's responding to what he believes are requests from North Koreans for Bibles--whether the requests are real or percieved, that is the question. Y'all may well think it's dumb, but it's not at all abnormal in Christian history that people would risk their lives to have and keep a Bible, or even a few pages of a Bible. IOW, whether or not North Koreans are getting word out that they want Bibles, it wouldn't be inconcieveable that they were actually asking for them. Even in the HuffPo article that seems to be his intent, not saving North Korea via proseletization.

There are several mission organizations that do Bible air drops. In the materials I've seen, the goal isn't just proseletizing. Yes they hope that a North Korean guard will pick up a page of the Gospel and come to Jesus. But they also believe that they are providing something precious and much wanted to NK's hidden Christians. They are aware that there are North Korean Christians and believe--rightly or wrongly--that those Christians want access to Bibles while they're stuck in that miserable place. Several of these organizations *also* seek to help defectors and are connected to the "underground railroad" providing safehouses and help for defectors.

[fullmetalheart]

And yet, people say American Christians are the "persecuted church". Bullshit, America, wake up and smell the coffee. Be GRATEFUL you CAN say your mind about God and instead of getting your head blown off, you sometimes get people rolling your eyes at you or asking you to shut up. I don't deny that there are people here in this country who are beat up (physically) for their faith, but it is NOTHING like what Christians face in other countries so to compare it is idiotic and insulting.

[DarkAnts]

North Korea executed 80 people this month. They were tied to poles and shot with machine guns. One or more persons crime was owning a bible.

[Vex]

Does he actually realise that if people pick them up and are caught they could be executed? Because if he does and he continues doing it he may as well be pulling the trigger himself.

[DarkAnts]

Does he actually realise that if people pick them up and are caught they could be executed? Because if he does and he continues doing it he may as well be pulling the trigger himself.

But if the people accept jesus into their hearts then they will be saved so its all good :angry-banghead:

[fullmetalheart]

Does he actually realise that if people pick them up and are caught they could be executed? Because if he does and he continues doing it he may as well be pulling the trigger himself.

Of course he does. But it doesn't matter, because he will have reached them before they died.

[DarkAnts]

The family may be punished. I think that the family is sentenced to the hard labor camps for most infractions for three generations. This is truly a gift that keeps on punishing.

[scc12]

This is a very dangerous thing to do nowadays.NK just executed 80 ppl for ridiculous reasons,some of whom were merely watching south Korean tv.

[formergothardite]

It's difficult to sort out though, because North Korea is such a closed country that very little word gets out from actual North Koreans. However, this man most likely knows that he has no ability to rescue them. That's fairly obvious. Chances are he's responding to what he believes are requests from North Koreans for Bibles--whether the requests are real or percieved, that is the question. Y'all may well think it's dumb, but it's not at all abnormal in Christian history that people would risk their lives to have and keep a Bible, or even a few pages of a Bible. IOW, whether or not North Koreans are getting word out that they want Bibles, it wouldn't be inconcieveable that they were actually asking for them. Even in the HuffPo article that seems to be his intent, not saving North Korea via proseletization.

There are several mission organizations that do Bible air drops. In the materials I've seen, the goal isn't just proseletizing. Yes they hope that a North Korean guard will pick up a page of the Gospel and come to Jesus. But they also believe that they are providing something precious and much wanted to NK's hidden Christians. They are aware that there are North Korean Christians and believe--rightly or wrongly--that those Christians want access to Bibles while they're stuck in that miserable place. Several of these organizations *also* seek to help defectors and are connected to the "underground railroad" providing safehouses and help for defectors.

I was raised believing this sort of stuff and there really might be people who want Bibles but the thing is, the way he is sending them in a person who doesn't want a Bible could see a box, pick it up, get caught with it and then that person and their entire family will be punished. He is willing to kill people to spread his religion. The fact that he won't see beyond "LET'S SEND BIBLES!!!" to the result of sending those Bibles that way shows how selfish he is.

An underground railroad, safe houses, help for defectors or even Christians smuggling them in and getting them to people who are actually requesting them and willing to risk the lives of their family for it is totally different than just dropping Bibles in on unsuspecting people.

[thekate]

The thing is, even if they're prepared to die for Christianity, they likely won't because NK doesn't really want to piss off the West. They'll get expelled or sent to jail, but probably not executed, unlike the people they're trying to "save."

I thought this woman's experience was interesting, as she has come to regret passing out the New Testament, since God calls on Christians to follow the law. She blames it on a new convert's zeal.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... tians.html

Chantal Sobkowicz, a 64-year-old “mind coach,†was thrown out in 1991 after being caught handing out Bibles by North Korean security. Working in Pyongyang as a translator for the North Korean government’s printing house, Sobkowicz would leave copies of the New Testament all over the city, stashed in holes, placed under pavement stones, hidden in trees or sewers. Sometimes, she would buy a bag of food at the foreigners’ “dollar store†and leave the bag behind with a Bible inside. It was while she was translating Kim Il-sung’s autobiography that Sobkowicz was caught.

“I think I had just finished the third or fourth volume, when some people spying on me caught me trying to hand out New Testaments in Korean,†she said. “They locked me up and interrogated me in a shack by the river, at night.â€

Sobkowicz was placed under house arrest, along with her two children, ages 6 and 7, whom she had brought to live in Pyongyang with her. After three days, more than 20-armed soldiers took Sobkowicz and her children to the airport. They were put on a flight back to France.

“The worst part was abandoning the Koreans,†Sobkowicz said. “I really loved the people there. They just meant so much more to me than my life back in France.â€

Today, Sobkowicz has a more nuanced perspective on her experience.

“When you act in the name of God, you always feel you are above the law,†she said “This is not so. If you go to an ungodly country, you will only demonstrate godliness by first abiding by its laws.â€

“They were right in expelling me,†she went on. “Not only did I know that I was acting against their law, I took pride in it. It is only because I was a new convert, out of my wits, that I did it.â€

[2xx1xy1JD]

I've got 2 possibly contradictory POVs on this:

1. Unlike some folks here, I actually admire the idea of getting banned religious material into NK. It's an insanely repressive regime, and the total ban on religious material is a part of that repression. He clearly states on the website that Christians can be severely persecuted and even executed for having Bibles. The North Koreans know that it is dangerous. Nevertheless, they are resisting the regime by transporting and possessing the banned Bibles. It may seem like a small thing, and it may seem crazy to risk your life for it, but small rebellions like this help people in repressive regimes to maintain their individuality and humanity, and it builds resistance. FWIW, I've met Holocaust survivors who managed to smuggle religious objects into concentration camps, and have an old set of instructions on how to smuggle Jewish religious objects into Communist countries.

2. OTOH....I went to his website and found this page on showing solidarity with the North Korean church for 100 days:

seoulusa.org/100-days/

From that page:

Where: The common places are those places you spend time during the week -- your homes, schools, workplaces, restaurants, parks, bus stops, etc. Not only are North Korean Christians persecuted for simply practicing their faith in the privacy of their own homes, many face imprisonment and possible execution for their small acts of faithfulness to God in the common places of their world. Expect opposition as you carry out this simple act of worship in the common places of your lives. Click here to read more about this opposition you can expect.

With the bold part - he's not talking about what North Korean's can expect in terms of persecution. No, he's talking about Christian persecution in America! I clicked the link, which took me here:

dotheword.org/2013/08/19/yes-there-is-christian-persecution-in-america-no-it-does-not-look-like-what-christians-worry-about/

Now THAT'S thoroughly obnoxious - exploiting the very real and very horrific persecution on North Koreans so that American Christians can have a persecution complex of their own.

[fullmetalheart]

I admire it, but not the way they are going about it.

[Savoring Samsara]

I admire it, but not the way they are going about it.

This. 2xx1xy1JD - I also admire acts of rebellion and resistance by true believers in times of great crisis and oppression, and I do not find it crazy to think that a Christian living under a totalitarian regime hostile to any manifestation of their religion would risk their life to hang on to a Bible, or to make sure that other Christians would have their holy scriptures as well. However, I don't see any evidence that the pastor discussed in the original article is actually getting Bibles to the hidden North Korean Christians. He's literally throwing Bibles across the border and assuming that whoever they land on would obviously want them, not realizing or caring about the harm he could cause. If he wants to really support North Korean Christians in their resistance against the dictatorship, he should find a better way of targeting his activism so that it will really make a difference.