Not giving money to bigotry=intolerance

[Terrie]

So the movie Ender's Game is coming out soon. Many people have chosen publicly commit to not seeing it because Card has been outspoken and active on the issue of marriage equality, going as far as, at one point, to call for overthrowing the government if it comes to pass. He has since backed off, claiming that it's a lost cause, but it's hard to say if that's because he realized that it was hurting his pocket book, or if it's because he realized that overthrowing the government 1) takes actual work, not just angry words and 2) tends to get you in a lot of trouble.

The latest thing I'm seeing is that those of us who have chosen not to see the movie are being intolerant. See, not giving someone your money and explain why = "You're not allowed to make any money, ever!" and is censorship. Of course, if you point out "So what's the alternative? I'm forced to give my money to this product?" Oh, no, no, no. That's not what they mean at all. You just should not not give them your money.

While there's a lot of debate with Card over how much we should let our knowledge of his views color our views of his work, the truth is that I can't get past the "this was written by an asshole" factor. It honestly makes me enjoy it less. Plus, while Ender's Game is hailed as a sci-fi classic, I always thought it was over-rated. So even without a call for boycotting, I wouldn't go see it.

ETA: fixing a typo

[gustava]

I've had a similar dilemma about Woody Allen.

[lizziesmom]

I didn't know the background before reading this but the movie does not appeal to me in the least. I wouldn't buy the book either.

[GolightlyGrrl]

I've had a similar dilemma about Woody Allen.

I know what you mean. I love Woody's movies-Annie Hall, Manhattan, Purple Rose of Cairo, Hannah and Her Sisters. But Woody's personal life kind of taints the experience of watching his films.

And Card's odious views aside, I'm just not going to see Ender's Game, just not my cinematic cup of tea.

[salex]

So the movie Ender's Game is coming out soon. Many people have chosen publicly commit to not seeing it because Card has been outspoken and active on the issue of marriage equality, going as far as, at one point, to call for overthrowing the government if it comes to pass. He has since backed off, claiming that it's a lost cause, but it's hard to say if that's because he realized that it was hurting his pocket book, or if it's because he realized that overthrowing the government 1) takes actual work, not just angry words and 2) tends to get you in a lot of trouble.

The latest thing I'm seeing is that those of us who have chosen not to see the movie are being intolerant. See, not giving someone your money and explain why = "You're not allowed to make any money, ever!" and is censorship. Of course, if you point out "So what's the alternative? I'm forced to give my money to this product?" Oh, no, no, no. That's not what they mean at all. You just should not not give them your money.

While there's a lot of debate with Card over how much we should let our knowledge of his views color our views of his work, the truth is that I can't get past the "this was written by an asshole" factor. It honestly makes me enjoy it less. Plus, while Ender's Game is hailed as a sci-fi classic, I always thought it was over-rated. So even without a call for boycotting, I wouldn't go see it.

ETA: fixing a typo

So, are these the same people who call for boycotting Starbucks, Disney and Jane Fonda Movies?

[salex]

I've had a similar dilemma about Woody Allen.

It has not been a hardship for me to avoid Woody Allen movies because I find most of them "meh".

[Terrie]

So, are these the same people who call for boycotting Starbucks, Disney and Jane Fonda Movies?

Yep. Even funnier is that some people will claim that they're neutral on the issue and that they're taking a broader stand of how we respond to those we disagree with, but push it long enough and you get the "Christians shouldn't be discriminated against for their religious beliefs!" I even had one person claim that it was illegal discrimination on religious grounds to boycott the movie.

[NurseNell]

I know nothing about the book or movie, and don't know who Card is. Given I see 1 or 2 movies/year I seriously doubt I'll be seeing this movie.

ETA: OK, I googled the book and movie. I wouldn't go see this if I won free tickets to it. Definitely not my kind of movie, or book.

[Savoring Samsara]

The movie actually came out yesterday in the US. I want to say there was a thread about this in Worldly Distractions a few months ago, but I can't find it now.

This is a topic that has been on my mind for quite some time now. Ender's Game was a very important book to me when I was young. It was one of my gateways into science fiction fandom (of which I am still a part) and, more crucially, spoke profoundly to me and gave me the strength to go on at a time in my life when I was experiencing incessant and severe bullying that the authority figures in my life did not seem to take seriously, and struggling with the baggage and expectations that come along with a "gifted and talented" label. This is a common experience shared by many people in my generation who grew up as geeky, socially awkward, smart kids. The level of identification that many of us had with Ender's story causes the people who are still fans of the book to react very strongly when they feel that such a meaningful milestone in their development is being disrespected. Granted, the level of overreaction to someone dissing a favorite is often WAY out of proportion, as it seems to be here, but I understand where it comes from.

I don't put myself in the category of Ender's Game or Orson Scott Card fan now. I won't be seeing the movie in theatres, though I may rent or stream it at a later point. Card's views, which are genuinely reprehensible in a way I won't belabor further here, are a big part of that. I don't want any portion of my ticket price, however small, going to the causes he supports or to give him a larger platform. More than that, however, my views on the book itself have changed a lot over the years. Now that I'm outside the situation that seemed so much to parallel what Ender was going through, I have a very different take on the book's message and I can see how it (perhaps unintentionally) espouses a worldview that's very counter to my own, in a much larger sense than just the LGBT rights stuff. This essay by John Kessel, "Creating the Innocent Killer," sums it up really well and may be of interest to those who have read the book: http://www4.ncsu.edu/~tenshi/Killer_000.htm

That being said...I'll admit I've experienced a bit of knee-jerk "fuck you, I won't do what you tell me!" toward the people who have called the loudest for a boycott, or called into question the commitment to equality and LGBT rights of the people who choose to see the movie anyway. I agree that it's ridiculous to label the boycott as intolerant. But I also strongly believe that a person's taste in entertainment is not the be-all and end-all of their moral rectitude. I've given myself permission to continue to enjoy things that contradict my moral or ethical stance (within reason) and I believe that everyone should do the same (to their comfort level - this is not, and will never be, a "one size fits all" kind of solution in terms of how much problematic stuff you can personally handle at one time). This is not to say that I'm banging Westboro Baptist Church's Greatest Hits on my car stereo or anything, but I don't lose any sleep over the fact that I still enjoy some movies, music, and books that contain latently sexist, racist, homophobic, etc. tropes, or that are made by people whose views I disagree with. I'm aware of those aspects of the things I enjoy and often bring them up in discussion of the respective works. And when something becomes too much to handle (Supernatural, I'm looking at YOU) I know when to cut my losses and walk away. Ender's Game isn't my cup of tea any longer, but it doesn't stress me out to think that someone might disagree.

Ultimately it comes down to this: The last group of people who tried to tell me what I should and shouldn't watch, read, listen to, or enjoy in order to be considered a good person in their eyes, to the point where I tied myself in logical knots trying to please them and so spent way too long denying myself a lot of ultimately harmless pleasures for no good reason, were the fundamentalist Christians I grew up around. I think progressive people should be careful we're not taking a page out of their book.

[Terrie]

I think it's worth noting that if this was a lesser book and author, there probably wouldn't be much of an issue, because why give money to such a person when all you're getting back is mediocre entertainment. This is a difficult decision for people because the book is so beloved. As I noted, I never loved it the way others did (my go-to book when I needed comfort as a bullied kid was Diane Duane's So You Want To Be A Wizard, which I still read and love today), but I appreciate the role it played for others.

Personally, I'm okay with someone who thinks about it and decides to see it anyway, though I'm enough of a intellectual snob to say they at least need to think about it. (I've had a couple people claim it's not worth thinking about where your money goes, because it's all too complex and you don't know where it eventually ends up, anyway). I also agree that some people get strident about it if you disagree. I just find it interesting that tolerance now apparently requires financial support for their personal endeavors.

[Burris]

A lot of these are the same people who argue they should be allowed the keep the money the would otherwise have to pay in tax, because the government shouldn’t be able to ‘force†an individual to spend his money on projects with which he disagrees (such as universal healthcare).

Card made a public statement for which some consumers are economically penalizing him: They’re boycotting this movie – merely keeping their own money in their own pockets.

If the conditions were reversed (which they sometimes are), and a movie had been made based on some fictional work of an atheist who publicly condemns Christianity, then evangelical bloggers (etc.) would be abuzz with the importance of boycotting the film.

These people don’t know anything about intolerance except for how to practice it. They don’t know anything about persecution, either.

[artdecades]

I feel like this is the same to the response to Chikfila. Basically, "your intolerance to my intolerance is intolerant"

[Childless]

How is choosing not to see or suggesting others don't see it "intolerance"? Just because someone suggests a boycott doesn't mean you have to participate. I will personally not give Card a penny of my hard earned income, but that doesn't mean others have to follow my example. No one has the right to tell me where I should spend my money. It's my money and my decision.