Jump to content
IGNORED

"Just the way things are done" Formal Invitations


Knight of Ni

Recommended Posts

I literally have never met a woman who didn't take her husbands name.

I was going to say that this is really odd, but then I thought about it and I can only think of one woman I know who didn't change her name (and she's my mom's age--everyone my age so far has taken their husband's name). I'm 22 and from the south.

The practice has always bothered me and since I was little I insisted I would never change my name. I don't care what other women choose to do with their names, but the "Mrs. John Smith" configuration bugs me no matter what.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 97
  • Created
  • Last Reply

I'm 52 and live in Texas. I'd guess that around 25% - 35% of my female colleagues kept their birth surnames upon marriage. I did choose to change mine but it was a difficult decision.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Former Texan here, too. Many of colleagues kept their birth names, but several also did the half-change, where they use the new married name interchangeably. It's slightly more true that my friends who are more Yankee inclined kept their names, but it's not categorically true.

When I got married, I made a list of all my girlfriends who had married to itemize their naming choices. It was literally half and half, although the balance has shifted slightly toward more changing their names. I chose to keep my name because I am lazy and the other name option wasn't a trade-up, just another plain English name. My name is slightly less common, and the husband flatly refused to consider changing his name. Hyphenated names were out of the question, especially since he wasn't going to play along.

The only time I get judgmental is when I'm slightly disappointed that my friends who had wonderfully interesting or uncommon names drop them for boring-sounding Mrs Dullsville names, but whatever, that's their choice. It could be kind of wearing to have to spell your name all the time, so I'm sympathetic, but from an aesthetic point of view, I'm bummed out. I really don't understand women who start life as, say, Kelly Jones, and become Kelly Kelly or Shannon Shannon, etc. Seriously--why? But that is a conversation for a different time, I suppose.

And yes, it's incredibly annoying when people act put out and get etiquette-fundie in direct opposition to the point of etiquette.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm mid-40s and most of my friends kept their names, including me.

I don't understand the change name = family. We're a family. My kids know their last name and my last name. I'm old enough that I have seen several of my friends through divorces. The name is irrelevant, really.

The only person who ever cared was my own mother. My husband felt that keeping his name was respectful to his family. Keeping my name was respectful to mine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your mother is just 40 years behind the times.

Yes, once upon a time (ie. the 1960s), formal etiquette books did state that the proper form of address for a married couple was Mr. and Mrs. John Doe. On her own, the wife may be referred to as Jane Doe in casual conversation, or Mrs. John Doe in more formal address. If she was divorced, she would often be referred to as Mrs. Jane Doe.

Times change.

Here's a link to the Emily Post Institute website that you can show your mom.

http://www.emilypost.com/communication- ... and-titles

"Although there can be many potential options, addressing someone by the name or title that he or she prefers is one of the most basic ways to show your respect."

We tend to get mail addressed to "Dr. and Mrs. John and Jane Doe" or "Dr. John Doe and Ms. Jane Smith-Doe". I initially kept my maiden name, but later hyphenated my name on my ID. Professionally, I use only my maiden name, while socially I use my married name. [i also use my full first name professionally, but my nickname socially. Basically, I have a double identity.]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm scandinavian, and I know plenty of women in their 40's-50's that kept their maiden name. It is also becoming more and more popular for couples to combine their last names when they get married, so that they are both called John and Jane Smith-Doe, f.ex.

I have told my boyfriend that if we get married I'm keeping my names (I've got both my mothers and my fathers last name, and so has he), but it would be difficult to choose a name if we ever get kids. We have like four last names to choose from.. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who address mail Mr and Mrs .... anymore anyway.

I do...but only in international correspondence, since so many names that are obviously one gender in one language might not be so obvious in other languages.

I'm scandinavian and most people I know from my parent's generation (born in the 1950s) and younger has kept their own name, which has then resulted in a lot of people with hyphenated last names, creating whole new naming problems once those younger generations have kids, what does Mom Brown-Smith and Dad Jones-Roberts call their offspring?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I play this game with telemarketers :)

I played that game with the missionaries after I divorced my Mormon ex-husband and in a way, it worked along my sending a resignation letter. It's been several years since those missionaries have shown up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And for the record I don't care I offend. I will be introduced using my first name. I may be part of my husband's family as well as my own but I will not become my husband.

Totally agree with this statement. You are still yourself and not somehow suddenly defined by your husband!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nope, not even close to being alone. I just hope you were able to break off contact with yours. I haven't spoken to mine in 12 years; one of the best, healthiest choices I've ever made.

Mine died 8 years ago, I didn't even go to her funeral.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am the position of not particularly liking my maiden name, liking my bf's name but not wanting to change, for the standard feminist reasons.

Easiest way round this would be to hyphenate, but mine is three syllables long and so is his,ending in the same sound, so it sounds a bit crappy. I suspect if and when we get married I'll either use my name professionally or just not change it at all. I've been looking forward to a new name for years! Moral of the story, if you have a long name don't fall for a guy with another long one :smile:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel that you show the most respect for your guests by addressing them as they'd like to be addressed. Therefore, I address letters to one of my widowed, elderly great aunt as Mrs. HisFirstName HisLastName; to another widowed, elderly great aunt as Mrs. HerFirstName HisLastName; to my male cousin as Mr. HisFirstName HerLastName HisLastName; and my female friend and her husband as Ms. HerFirstName WifeLastName and Mr. HisFirstName HisLastName.

It's not difficult to remember for friends and family I'm close to, and for the rest, I have a handy Excel spreadsheet with names and addresses that I open up every December for cards.

As for knowing women who haven't changed their names upon marriage, it does seem more common in women who are in their 50s or 60s now. I have several friends that age who kept their birth names. I'm the only one of my friends in my age group (early 30s) who didn't change her name on marriage. Several of them have mentioned to me that they wish they hadn't, so I find that interesting.

My cousin mentioned above is also singular in my circles because he changed his middle name to his wife's maiden name and she is now HerFirstName HerLastName HisLastName.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am the position of not particularly liking my maiden name, liking my bf's name but not wanting to change, for the standard feminist reasons.

Easiest way round this would be to hyphenate, but mine is three syllables long and so is his,ending in the same sound, so it sounds a bit crappy. I suspect if and when we get married I'll either use my name professionally or just not change it at all. I've been looking forward to a new name for years! Moral of the story, if you have a long name don't fall for a guy with another long one :smile:

Just for the record it isn't UN-feminist to not change your name. The key is choice and not doing it because of cultural pressure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are 3 girls in my family and 2 of us kept our names when we married. It was very much split along professional lines. The sister who changed her name is the only one of us who isn't a physician. My other sister and I kept our names mostly because we wanted to and partially because it was a pain to have change all the documents related to our profession. My doctor-sister's husband wanted her to take his name and she said sure but he'd have to do all the paperwork required. Twenty years later she's still got her "maiden" name :wink-kitty:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's interesting that many people have mentioned that its mostly women who are 40s to 60s right now who kept their maiden names, or hyphenated.

I think it's something that was more of a trend in the 70s-90s. What I'm wondering, is why it doesn't seem to have stuck? Is it because its kind of a hassle paperwork wise, or is it more philosophical? I wonder if there are any studies, since this is obviously a very tiny sample of experiences.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had this fight with my ILs, too. Having come from a blended family and being thoroughly comfortable with having different surnames growing up, their arguments were laughable to me. Comes in handy with telemarketers and the like, anyone looking for Mrs Hislastname is obviously looking in the wrong spot.

Interestingly enough, I have absolutely no loyalty to my birth surname, my paternal family is full of unfortunate memories. My sole point is this is the only name I have ever had, and ever will have. My brother, in fact, changed his name to our mother's surname, just to get away from that family bond. And THEN, his wife took that name. The world is wacky.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This. My husband and I have pretty much joint everything, but we have different last names. He wasn't happy about it initially; he wasn't angry or pushy, but he really wanted to talk about why I didn't want to change it and he was big on becoming one family with one last name. I told him then that he could take my name. He said no. I told him that we could both hyphenate our names. He said no. I said that we could pick an entirely new last name for both of us. He said no. I said that then it was clearly about me having his name and not just about us having one name. He's left it alone since.

This almost exactly. I literally would not have married my husband if he'd tried to push me into changing my name. I absolutely felt that strongly about it. When it came up, he said that all other things being equal, he'd prefer for us to have the same last name, but that he didn't want to change his, so there was no reason I should have to change mine. If our names worked together, I'd have lobbied for us to both hyphenate and take each other's name. But they sound ridiculously awful when combined, so that didn't fly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re laws and women's surnames:

Many of my ESL students were recently naturalized citizens. Several of the married women (Vietnamese and Italian), who went by their maiden names, were told that they HAD to take their husband's surname when they became citizens. They were shocked when I told them that was bunk.

When my daughter was a teenager, I took her to get a passport so we could visit relatives in Germany. We had different surnames because I had divorced her father and remarried, and the agent at the post office refused to issue her a passport on my behalf unless I brought in my divorce decree and marriage license to "prove" I was her mother. I told the agent, "You mean that her father, who DOESN'T have custody of her, could just come in here, get a passport for her, and take her out of the country and there'd be nothing I could do about it--simply because they have the same last name?" The agent said, "Yes." :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Twice divorced and back to my maiden name at the age of 60, I like to insist on the title Miss. Just to fuck with annoying, presumptuous people a third my age who, in business situations, assume they can call me by my first name.

That said, even my most conservative married female contemporaries don't use "Mrs. John Lastname"--they use "Mrs. Mary Lastname," if being formal.

Fun ancient etiquette fact for the very young: "Mrs. John Smith" is the guy's wife or widow. Should she divorce him, she gets demoted to "Mrs. Mary Smith," because it assumes he'll remarry, and there can only be one woman bearing the high dignity of the title "Mrs. John Smith" at a time.

Hey,. Hane, I'd forgotten we are age-contemporaries. Don't you also hate when some punk about 5 years younger than you calls you "young lady" like it's a compliment?

One quibble with the ancient etiketty. I remember reading, before my wedding in the most recent ice age, that a divorced woman's mail was addressed to "Mrs. Maidenname Exhusband'sname"

Cracked my sheet right up because if I'd been excruciatingly prim and proper, I'd've addressed at least one lady with the 1970 equivalent of Rostenskowski Wolowitzovich. The calligrapher's hand would've been shaking and we'd've needed a business-size envelope for that invitation! :P

ETA to the OP: Stand your ground, kiddo. And may a long and happy union be yours and his together! :cracking-up:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's interesting that many people have mentioned that its mostly women who are 40s to 60s right now who kept their maiden names, or hyphenated.

I think it's something that was more of a trend in the 70s-90s. What I'm wondering, is why it doesn't seem to have stuck? Is it because its kind of a hassle paperwork wise, or is it more philosophical? I wonder if there are any studies, since this is obviously a very tiny sample of experiences.

That's an interesting observation. I'm not sure this is true everywhere. Certainly where I live, deep blue northern state, I know plenty of 20 and 30-somethings who wouldn't even contemplate changing their last name. I wonder though, if the trend back to taking your husband's name is real, if it's because younger women haven't had to live with as much inequality as older women. Older women know that the "cute" traditions of marriage- having your father "give" you away, taking your husband's last name, etc- began at a time when marriage literally meant you became the property of your husband and even though that wasn't true when they were married there were plenty of reminders around them that women were still second class citizens. Nowadays, those roots seem so far removed from reality that many young women can take the "cute traditions" without the baggage and incorporate them into their own lives.

As for hassle paperwork-wise. In my state the license specifically asks if each partner will keep their own name so it's a matter of checking a box to either keep or relinquish a name- no hassle. Now, changing all those licenses, passports, DEA numbers- that's a hassle!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re laws and women's surnames:

Many of my ESL students were recently naturalized citizens. Several of the married women (Vietnamese and Italian), who went by their maiden names, were told that they HAD to take their husband's surname when they became citizens. They were shocked when I told them that was bunk.

When my daughter was a teenager, I took her to get a passport so we could visit relatives in Germany. We had different surnames because I had divorced her father and remarried, and the agent at the post office refused to issue her a passport on my behalf unless I brought in my divorce decree and marriage license to "prove" I was her mother. I told the agent, "You mean that her father, who DOESN'T have custody of her, could just come in here, get a passport for her, and take her out of the country and there'd be nothing I could do about it--simply because they have the same last name?" The agent said, "Yes." :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

The post office peon who took my passport application refused to process it until I'd gotten a notarized affidavit that I, Cindy Lou Who Else as shown on my driver's license and SS card, was indeed the same person as Cindy Lou Who, as shown on my birth certificate.

Slimy little bastid.

Of my two married female Juniors, one uses both surnames (but doesn't hyphenate) and one retains her maiden name. I met a woman who devised an entirely new surname for herself and her husband when they married. Well, they both came up with it. And then they got divorced. At least so far in my part of the English-speaking world we haven't gotten to the equivalent of the "de Perez" part of Latina names. That would be the end of it. I'd establish a Lutheran nunnery, change my name to Mother Rosetta Stone and be done with it, I tell you!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I literally have never met a woman who didn't take her husbands name.

Now you have.

ETA: Not "every facet" of our lives are separate. We share a bank account, an apartment, a phone bill, etc. I just never changed my name.

I really don't get the "Icannotbelievethisyouhaveblownmymind!" reaction to what is relatively commonplace.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey,. Hane, I'd forgotten we are age-contemporaries. Don't you also hate when some punk about 5 years younger than you calls you "young lady" like it's a compliment?

One quibble with the ancient etiketty. I remember reading, before my wedding in the most recent ice age, that a divorced woman's mail was addressed to "Mrs. Maidenname Exhusband'sname"

Cracked my sheet right up because if I'd been excruciatingly prim and proper, I'd've addressed at least one lady with the 1970 equivalent of Rostenskowski Wolowitzovich. The calligrapher's hand would've been shaking and we'd've needed a business-size envelope for that invitation! :P

Hey, MamaJ--I do indeed remember an allusion to Mrs. Maidenname Exhusband'sname in one of the older etiquette books; perhaps Amy Vanderbilt or Emily Post?

The "Mrs. Rostenskowski Wolowitzovich" bit gave me a giggle. Reminded me of a newspaper article that came out shortly after Carter's election, predicting that Southern food and cultural practices would be on the uptick. The writer mentioned the popularity of family surnames for Southern women and men, so he envisioned little New York girls with names like Cohen SanDomenico.

Oh, and the "young lady" bit? Condescending crap! That was pulled on me by a Liberty U student who was "studying to be a preacher" and who ruined my train commute one evening. I told him quite seriously that I was NOT a young lady, and he blithely responded that he'd been taught to address women that way. I wish I'd had the presence of mind to ask, "Even if they find it offensive?"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seriously? Where do you live and what generation are you?

I'm in my mid-40s. I would say of my married friends, probably around 1/10 or maybe a bit more kept their maiden names. I did change mine, but I'm with the OP on totally hating (and nixing) "Mr. and Mrs. Hisfirstname Ourlastname". Only a couple of our aunties ever address mail to us that way and I've given up caring about that, but I wasn't going to refer to myself that way.

I'm in my mid , well let's just say I'm a generation older than you and maybe 1 in 10 of the women I know took their husband's last name. Quite a few more went for the trend of hyphenating the two last names. Some couples created a completely new last name for themselves.

Some famous examples of women a bit older than I am: Hillary Clinton was Hillary Rodham until her husband decided to run for President. Teresa Heinz didn't add the Kerry to her name until her husband decided to run for President. OTOH, she took her first husband's name and continued to use it after remarrying.

Women I know who are between us in age seemed (to me) more inclined to take their husbands' names unless they were already established in a career and didn't want to lose name recognition. Friends who have married men with young children from a previous marriage say they took their husband's last name to strengthen the idea of them all being one family.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.