I have the Wisdom book with bankruptcy Law!

[Handmaiden of Dog]

It didn't work for me.

[homeschoolmomma1]

http://frenchfry912.blog.com/2013/10/15 ... me-wisdom/

Gosh why isn't it working...

[Coconut Flan]

It worked fine for me, thanks.

[Chicken bones]

Reading pages 54-55....the attitude towards and discussion of slavery is frightening.

[mrs]

I seem to recall Vyckie from No Longer Quivering telling a similar story--one of her sons was annoying his younger sister, so she(the sister)decided to "take out his trashes for him." I can't remember if they were ATI, though.

IIRC there was a link to a video of Jana giving the "jewelry box" speech at a conference. I think she was a little emotional talking about it? Anyone else remember this? I tried searching for it here, but couldn't find the link.

[homeschoolmomma1]

I'm still trying to find out if we should be offended by the term 'little people' throughout the book lol

Also the note to parents on page 49 saying bankruptcy laws don't pertain to little people is classic. Duh 6 year olds don't need to know about bankruptcy

[lemonhead]

I just glanced at the first scan, the one of the cover, and I'm already all stabby at this quote: "The offended person must initiate reconciliation."

WTF? My family was never ATI, but our church was heavily influenced by Gothard and my parents did the seminars, so I know what this really means is, "If you are offended, it's your fault for taking offense so now you need to go to the offender and ask forgiveness for being offended." This comes through even more clearly in the teachings about counseling sexual abuse victims, but it's a principle that is interwoven throughout his materials. His teachings are so shaming for people who actually have the audacity to believe they have personal rights.

Okay, rant over. For now, anyway.

[Coconut Flan]

That is a truly asinine one of his teachings.

[homeschoolmomma1]

I just glanced at the first scan, the one of the cover, and I'm already all stabby at this quote: "The offended person must initiate reconciliation."

WTF? My family was never ATI, but our church was heavily influenced by Gothard and my parents did the seminars, so I know what this really means is, "If you are offended, it's your fault for taking offense so now you need to go to the offender and ask forgiveness for being offended." This comes through even more clearly in the teachings about counseling sexual abuse victims, but it's a principle that is interwoven throughout his materials. His teachings are so shaming for people who actually have the audacity to believe they have personal rights.

Okay, rant over. For now, anyway.

Wow all from the front cover :)

That is sort of amazing to me :)

[homeschoolmomma1]

I'm trying to decide if I should take the blog down since not many people are looking at it...

[nokidsmom]

I'm trying to decide if I should take the blog down since not many people are looking at it...

While reading what's in these wisdom booklets is interesting and has me a bit :o , I have to echo other poster's concerns over copyrights. Not sure scanning and posting this on a blog is a good idea but I would hate to see the OP get in trouble over this.

Not trying to be handslap, just concerned and I tend to err on the side of caution.

[Dandruff]

I don't think I fully understand how the forgiveness routine works. If a child offends an adult I doubt the adult apologizes to the child and gives him or her a gift to smooth things over. What if a child offends a teenager? Does gender matter?

[yewnique]

Yes,I looked thru ebay and searched online,and couldn't find ATI materials anywhere.They really are a protected,'sacred sacrament'.

Apparently the buyers are brainwashed quite well,to never even think of reselling them.BZZT! Not allowed.Highly sensitive material.They must keep them locked in a vault for all time.

To be able to get hold of ATI materials, one must:

* attend a Basic Seminar

* attend an Advanced Seminar

* apply to use the ATI curriculum (you have to show that your family is worthy) - The Application Form itself is very snark-worthy! (ati.iblp.org/ati/admissions/documents/application.pdf?show=true)

If after you buy the materials and use it and decide it's not for you, you are NOT ALLOWED to resell it to just anyone. You are not even allowed to show the materials to interested friends. Not everyone follows this rule, but enough do such that one is not able to find the materials easily. The reason is that if one does not attend the Seminars, one would not be able to fully appreciate the Wisdom Booklets.

[scc12]

If after you buy the materials and use it and decide it's not for you, you are NOT ALLOWED to resell it to just anyone. You are not even allowed to show the materials to interested friends. Not everyone follows this rule, but enough do such that one is not able to find the materials easily. The reason is that if one does not attend the Seminars, one would not be able to fully appreciate the Wisdom Booklets.

no wonder I can't find them on ebay/the web anywhere.They sure do have that secret cult thing down,don't they.Excuses included,free of charge.

[CynicMom]

I'm particularly struck by the medieval approach to economics. Debt is ALWAYS bad and debtors are SINNING! Debt as a necessary engine of economic growth gets no mention. I imagine the people who believe this would be pretty good at personal finance but woefully unprepared to understand the modern world around them.

[scc12]

Is there any point they do allow dealing w debt,even if it isn't personal,as in business dealings? For example,Josh had the used car lot and arranged financing.Shouldn't he have followed that legalistically and to a T and said "cash only sales"? Or do they get to deal w debt in business,when it benefits them? It seems hypocritical.

[Iokaste]

[Gertie]

Music is one of the most powerful influences for good or for evil

in the life of a young person. Scientific studies have affirmed the

ability of music such as Baroque and Classical to increase the

capacity of the mind for creativity and retention of information

ATI is quoting scientific studies? (Or, well, the vague concept of "scientific studies" anyway.) I'm blown away. Where are the bible references to support this??? :naughty:

[lemonhead]

#7 married, diorced, rebuilder? Can anyone explain?

I'm a little fuzzy on this--and it's true that these are closely guarded secrets, so you won't find much with your google-fu--but this refers to a Gothard book called the Rebuilder's Guide, which has something to do with reconciling a separation or divorce. Both of my parents went through the Rebuilder's Guide. They were both married and divorced before they married each other, so clearly they weren't going to be "rebuilding" their former marriages. So I'm not sure if it's also intended to be used to prevent separation or divorce in those who have a history of such.

OTOH, my parents had a very troubled and unhappy relationship, so maybe the Rebuilder's Guide was intended to prevent their separation or divorce. I remember fervently praying that they would break up throughout my teenage years because they were so miserable together, so maybe I can blame Gothard for keeping them together!

[Talitha Cumi]

IIRC there was a link to a video of Jana giving the "jewelry box" speech at a conference. I think she was a little emotional talking about it? Anyone else remember this? I tried searching for it here, but couldn't find the link.

I used to have it on a playlist, but the video's been deleted. :evil-eye:

[FeministShrew]

Good grief! That application is intrusive! And they say the ebil gubment is all up in our business! :evil:

[ILoveJellybeans]

Wow, that is one intrusive form!

[Odd1Out]

Wow, that is one intrusive form!

Just why do they need individual pics of all children age 14 and older?

Wow, it's very "please pay us lots of $ so we can control your lives!"

[Odd1Out]

Others may not live in the home of an ATI family?? What?! No taking in anyone who needs a place to stay, no helping friends, no foster children. Didn't the Duggars have people staying with them?

[ILoveJellybeans]

Just why do they need individual pics of all children age 14 and older?

Wow, it's very "please pay us lots of $ so we can control your lives!"

So Gothard can pick out the girls he fancies and ask their parents if they can be interns?

Cause they dont want ugly people in their secret cult?

To make sure they looked like Godly teens and not rebels who will corrupt the rest?