this woman makes me sick - Vicki Courtney

[bananacat]

Ever since, I've been convinced that a church community that is pro-life needs to actively support young parents, whether or not they're married. It needs to be the parents' choice whether or not to make an adoption plan for their child.

Correction: every church community needs to do this, even if they are pro-choice. And plenty of churches are already like this, but they tend the ones who are pro-choice already.

[Joykins]

I wonder if the shame the mom feels and dishes out is because she thinks her son "cheated" her out of the perfect courtship/wedding scenario? I seriously think that a lot of the "purity" rhetoric is a type of voyeruism, and people get seriously bent out of shape when they're denied their fix.

(edited for clarity)

Purity advocacy and "how to talk to your children [to keep them pure]" books appear to be a source of income. In a sense, this is also about the family business.

I was raised what I gather y'all call fundy-lite (evangelical, more or less conservative, but not wackadoo) and certainly got the message that I should wait until I was married to have sex, and thought I would do that as a teenager, but there were no pledges or rings in my day. I spent many, many years pushing very hard on the boundaries of that personal resolution before I broke it--in my early 20s, with my fiance--because after 10 years of waiting I'd had enough. I don't feel guilt or regret about it, and didn't then--the only regret is there are 1 or 2 people I probably shouldn't have gone out with because they were not as nice as I thought they were :lol: . While I'm not pro-promiscuity, I don't think the "purity" movement is a good thing--it just stresses to kids that their natural urges are dirty and that they are horrible even if they make love to someone they care about and are committed to. It also makes sexual "sin" out to be a big deal so much more than other things you can do that are so much more harmful. My husband has a lot of hangups, many due to his more-fundy-than-mine upbringing in this area, which has a negative effect on our marriage.

I used to work on a Christian forum and let me tell you when a fundy tells you they are "extending grace" to do something that any decent normal human being would do without hesitation (like marry an engaged pregnant couple), run far away because that person is spiritually toxic.

[Witsec5]

This couple have nothing to be ashamed of. I hope they do not allow themselves to be shamed in this way.

One of the nicest high schoolers I ever worked with (way better than a fundie smuggar) was the product of a one night stand. Both parents showed up for every meeting and cooperated with each other, sharing custody every step of the way even though they were as different as night and day and probably didn't like each other. If you ask them, they would both say that their child was a gift from God and all four of the boys grandparents would agree. And in the meetings this young man beamed in the presence of both of his parents. I would say that is a Godly way to bring up a child under circumstances that were less than optimal to begin with. I would much rather grow up with that mother (who was salt of the earth and an anchor) than this meanie fundie. If there is a Judgment Day, our single mother who had a one-night stand and turned up pregnant would do quite well thank you and St. Peter would let her right on through. Again, this horrible blow is yet another reminder that there is something very sick and skewed about this version of Christianity.

[lilah]

This happened to my brother, except he was not even engaged. He bought into the whole "you WILL NOT have sex" sex education in our fundy upbringing so of course he didn't carry a condom and 'it happened'. He and his girlfriend were 18. They were trotted up in front of the whole church to apologize; apologized individually to each of us family members, and had pastoral counselling. I was well on my way out of the house by then (just biding my time until I had the wherewithal to take off), and my parents were seriously unimpressed with my response-- 'well, these things happen; I'll help you raise him/her.' Instead they were forced to give the baby up for adoption. My brother went on happily with his life, but split with his girlfriend. It seemed to me that once the baby was out and sold off to good christians via a private christian adoption agency, nobody wanted anything more to do with her, the hussy. She was so grieved by the whole experience that she within months of giving up her baby ended up in an abusive, controlling relationship with a much older man and promptly had two more kids with him. We lost touch when they moved to some trailer park way out in rural Georgia, but I really hope she is ok.

ETA: And, I don't know if there is such a thing as divine reckoning, but I hope my parents and brother, all still upstanding religious folks, know that this train wreck of a life is on THEIR consciences.

Seriously that is so messed up. That poor woman, she deserved so much better.

For fundies who want to adopt domestically (think Lyndsie and Dan) I wonder how they reconcile the ebil premarital sex and the likelihood that any domestic infant adoption is usually (but not always) the product of premarital sex? I guess that's one reason why a lot of fundies who adopt, adopt overseas.

[Want More Babies]

She's a bitch. Not one single comment that isn't praising her and telling her how wonderful she is, full of grace, blah, blah, blah!

I left her a message that while kind, showed her a different side. It didn't get published. :o

Another "Christian" narcissist. Everything has to be about her, and she lives for people lavishing her with praise.

From one commenter I guess it is quite common for her to talk about all the bad things her children do in her conferences. One lady thought it was going to be her youngest son since she had told everyone all the problems he was going through.

What a BITCH!

[whirlygirly]

the pubic shame

Heh. :character-beavisbutthead:

[ChickeyMonkey]

Aren't the 2 bloggers different women? I thought the one talking about Christians "inventing marriage" wasn't bad at all. Did I read it wrong?

But the first lady? Total bitch.

[Patsy]

You mean the one I linked? About how Christians don't own marriage, and can focus on the wrong things about it? Totally different blogger. Just something I came across that this post reminded me of.

[Terrie]

Man, all I can think of is the saying "Heads you win, tails I lose." My advice to the couple would be "Get married, then get out." Or possibly, reverse that order.

[Guest Anonymous]

Something similar happened to the eldest sibling of my best friend, back in the 80s. The girl became pregnant whilst an engaged teenager and, as a 'consequence', the wedding was treated more like a funeral. The couple was marched to a very small wedding and noone in the family wore new clothes or carried flowers, because the wedding under those circumstances was seen to be shameful to the family.

The parents who enforced this are still paying the real 'consequences'. The daughter moved her new family overseas as soon as she graduated from college and would not return home or bring her baby and husband to the wedding of the next sibling because she was still so angry and distressed at the way she had been 'punished' on her own wedding day. She is now a successful business woman who employs her husband within her company, and they are raising a huge family of their own. They have made their peace with the rest of the family now but have forged new lives for themselves and have no regrets about their choices.

Her parents, on the other hand are still plagued by regrets. Happily, they moved away from their extreme views and behaviour very soon after, and have since championed the causes of other single young girls that have become pregnant in the church, because they would never want another family to experience the heartache they caused for themselves and their children.

[jockosmom]

My wedding as a 5-months-along bride definitely felt shameful. I wasn't allowed to wear a white dress, our first choice of wedding invitation was vetoed by my dad as not appropriate (which I still don't really understand) and the wedding was by invitation-only; specifically, my mom said, to keep people from coming and "gawking" at me to see how far along I was. I think my mom was ashamed of me for a long time for getting pregnant at 16.

Also, I was not allowed to have a baby shower when a high school friend suggested hosting one. My mother thought it would be too tacky.

[Rosa]

Jockosmom, I'm really sorry. Your mom was being cruel.

And truthfully, if they thought you were old enough to parent, they should have respected your wishes for everything from the invitations to the shower.

[fundiefan]

I went back and read further posts. The couple did get married, on May 28th. It looked like the whole shebang to me. Maybe the girl's parents put the kabash on the shame factor? There are also a bunch of pictures of a 'reveal' party where they announced the sex of the baby. It seems the baby has been embraced as well as the couple. For that, I am happy for the young couple.

I still think this woman is a piece of shit who used her son's life to further her own agenda and heaped mountains of shame on a young couple who neither deserved nor needed it. Her own son at that.

[demgirl]

The girl's mom looks really nice in the pictures from the "reveal" party. She looks warm and very happy. The blog lady appears to have given her son and his wife a copy of her own book as a gift at the party.

[fundiefan]

The girl's mom looks really nice in the pictures from the "reveal" party. She looks warm and very happy. The blog lady appears to have given her son and his wife a copy of her own book as a gift at the party.

I saw that and sorta' gagged. She does think mighty highly of herself, doesn't she?

[sugaree]

Poor Casey. She's ended up with truly the mother-in-law from hell.

[ChickeyMonkey]

You mean the one I linked? About how Christians don't own marriage, and can focus on the wrong things about it? Totally different blogger. Just something I came across that this post reminded me of.

Oh, OK. I thought posters were also saying the blogger in the 2nd link wasn't a very nice person, but she seems to have a pretty rational (not insane) view about marriage. She seems pretty cool, but I only read the marriage post.

[GolightlyGrrl]

She's a bitch. Not one single comment that isn't praising her and telling her how wonderful she is, full of grace, blah, blah, blah!

I left her a message that while kind, showed her a different side. It didn't get published. :o

Another "Christian" narcissist. Everything has to be about her, and she lives for people lavishing her with praise.

From one commenter I guess it is quite common for her to talk about all the bad things her children do in her conferences. One lady thought it was going to be her youngest son since she had told everyone all the problems he was going through.

What a BITCH!

I get a Barbara Curtis vibe from this woman, and that is not a compliment.

[AnnoDomini]

Aren't all weddings invitation-only?

Also, I'm so sorry that happened to you. Even if premarital sex is/were a sin, I don't think it's needful to make such a huge deal over it, especially if you're planning to get married anyway.

[Kitty]

What a disgusting cunt. yes, "cunt." Bitch simply isn't strong enough.

(lovely second post, no?)

This woman does not deserve to have any children. She is a narcissist and an overall horrible person. Doing this to your own son... wtf. I imagine that they're only on "christmas card" terms now. I would have cut her out of my life completely and moved to Canada.

[jockosmom]

Aren't all weddings invitation-only?

In our little town, the practice was to put your engagement announcement in the paper with your photo (something else that was deemed inappropriate for us - to have an engagement photo done) and put a line toward the bottom like: "All friends and family are welcome to attend the ceremony and/or reception." Even though you would send out invitations to family and close friends, it was understood that friends from town would show up at the reception anyway. If there was a line in the announcement that said "Invitations have been sent to friends/family . . . " or something similar, it was code for: Do not plan on coming to this wedding or reception unless you've already received your invitation. These were the weddings where the bride was already pregnant.

[ChickeyMonkey]

Jockosmom, how big did the receptions get when everyone in town is invited? Even a little town population can mean a lot of food and drinks needed for guests. Even if it's just cake an punch, that can be a lot when everyone decides to come.

[nutella addict]

Hmmm, at my church some couples let the ceremony be open so the pastor will announce it in church and anyone who wants can come, but nobody would go to the reception without an invitation, and receptions are almost always planned for specific numbers of people where I live. One of my Canadian friends did it this way too and invited everyone she/her husband knew, although with refreshments downstairs after the ceremony before the private reception. Invitation only would be perfectly normal where I live...also nobody would care if the bride was pregnant.

[Joykins]

I get a Barbara Curtis vibe from this woman, and that is not a compliment.

Tell me more.

[jockosmom]

Jockosmom, how big did the receptions get when everyone in town is invited? Even a little town population can mean a lot of food and drinks needed for guests. Even if it's just cake an punch, that can be a lot when everyone decides to come.

Well, most receptions were in the church basements. They were usually just cake and punch affairs. Our town didn't have a community center/banquet facility until the late 70's. I don't remember that the receptions ever got too big to handle. You just planned on several sheet cakes in addition to the wedding cake. Our town had about 1000 people when I grew up there in the 60's and early 70's.