"I'm the weaker vessel but my husband doesn't agree!"

[kpmom]

I like to check in with the Christian Homeschooler's Forum from time to time to see what's on their minds.

A recent post caught my eye. This woman's husband has a history of hating his jobs, moving them from one state to another, constantly complaining to her about his job(s), etc.

As a properly submissive wife, she can't tell him to grow the hell up (or get a job herself), but as the "weaker vessel", she just can't handle his constant complaints and believes he should protect her from these issues;

"is it wrong that can't handle it when husband talks to me about how he cant handle his career and that he hates it?

He's not happy and hasnt been for a really long time.Years, in fact.He just wants to quit and do something simple.

After him feeling this way and me being his only friend, his best friend as he says, it makes me feel insecure and so heavy hearted

He says he needs to talk to me and feels like "i cant handle it".I cant.I I dont know what to say anymore after 5yrs or so of this.Im not a guy, Im not in the workforce.I have no idea what to tell him. I try to encourage him to do something else,to go to school and learn something. He doesnt know what he wants to do,what he likes or what makes him happy. hes not happy and not satisfied by the fruit of his labor. He's not content in the least.

I dread asking him about how his day was.

We used to hang out and have coffee weekend mornings,i dread that too because it seems like the conversation always goes in that direction and i get so tense. We never get anywhere and nothing ever changes for him.

I try so hard to be strong and available for him,to bear his burden,but i feel like he needs a man friend to bear this burden and counsel him. I try not to tell him how it makes me feel after years of this and the toll its taken on me,but then I have no one to go to and im just bottling it all up and it hurts me so bad.When i have been honest he gets upset and doesnt understand.he accuses me of not being there for him ,when in fact our marriage stated this way. His first job as a married young man he quit and his boss found out through me.After he quit he couldnt cope and pull himself together and i had to step up and take the lead.Given he was 19.But this sort of set the stage for the future.

On one hand he is really hard worker,faithful and Godly. His work ethics are a reflection of his faith.He has grown into a better leader for our family but he has this personal issue and weakness when it comes to his work environment affecting him adversley.

As the weaker vessel I feel like I need a bit of protection from this issue as he works it out with the Lord and he doesnt seem to agree with me or see that i need that. i feel like i cant rely on him,which makes me feel very insecure." There's more of the same at the link below.

What made this post stand out, though, was one of the members did not let her get away with this poor, delicate me stuff;

"Honestly, it's ridiculous that you use the phrase "can't handle it" when you really mean simply that it makes you feel insecure, tense and frustrated, and you don't want to do it any more.

You have feelings. Feelings exist, and it's not that you aren't allowed to do anything about the situation (of course you should) but rather that you are clearly a normal person who can "handle" having a feeling or two. You don't have to like it -- but there is no need to pretend you are incapacitated by your own emotional life.

If you don't want to participate in these conversations, all you need to do is say, "Hon, I know you'd like to vent, but I'm not going to have that kind of talk with you right now. I find them very upsetting. I've decided not to do it any more. I'm sorry about that. I hope you are able to hash things out some other way."

If you feel you could 'be a good listener' if he didn't press you to help solve it -- that's a possible tactic to. Just make eye contact, nod a lot and say "mm-hmm". When he pauses like he wants you to say something, simply identify the last thing he said and repeat it in your own words, "You were frustrated by Bob when he..." Do not feel pressured to be part of a 'team' to figure the problem out. Just listen. The problem is his.

You can also end that kind of active listening when you are ready to.

You can also change the subject yourself (have something that you want to talk about, and just start).

You can also just say, "You are upsetting me." or "I don't like talking like this."

I don't think this is a gender issue. I think the issue is that you don't feel comfortable being assertive with him. Instead you are letting him back you into a conversational corner. Do you have some kind of 'perfect wife' image that you are trying to live up to?

Perhaps you would feel more secure if you could rely on your Lord and yourself to guide your actions and manage your living situation -- rather than pressuring both you and your DH with the idea that he makes all of these sorts of decisions and you just get 'drug around' without any sense that you could make effective changes to your situations.

(Also, you are misunderstanding and mis-using the Scriptural image of the delicate vessel. It does not mean that you "can't handle things" or should be sheltered from the regular harshness of life. Ask in Bible issues if you want more info.)" And there's more at the link below.

The op and some of the other members did not appreciate this responder's message. Too bad, because the op needed to hear some of these things.

Here's the link to the ongoing discussion.

chfweb.com/index.php?t=msg&th=84972&start=0&S=72aa4d9a53207776d836f280941f00cf

[DomWackTroll]

Thanks for the link-- that was a good one! Funny how different fundie women have different definitions of "submissive."

[rward]

:angry-banghead:

It sounds like her husband is really, really depressed. Hardly surprising, seeing as he got married very young and probably chose his "career" on the basis of it being something an uneducated 19 year old could support a small family with.

I get it. Listening to a depressed person perseverate on how depressed they are is exhausting. (Said with all love, I've been depressed, too.) Depressed people are just exhausting overall. It shouldn't be her problem to deal with his depression, and I really feel her there. She needs to stop being his untrained, unpaid therapist, refuse to engage and point him in the direction of an actual mental health professional. When I finally did that, I felt like a horrible wife, but it worked. My husband didn't need me to hug him and tell him it would be okay, he needed Prozac and a trained professional.

But "weaker vessel"? Oh, no, honey. No.

[lizziesmom]

I thought fundies did not believe in mental illness. All her husband has to do is pray.

[bal maiden]

That was a tragic read. Sounds like he's depressed and she's on her way there too - depression can be 'catching' in relationships.

[rward]

That was a tragic read. Sounds like he's depressed and she's on her way there too - depression can be 'catching' in relationships.

Trust me, it's practically unavoidable. Year after year of that sort of negatively will grind you to dust, no matter how cheerful you normally are.

Like I said, disengaging hurts, but it's the only way to save both parties. These days, I feel bad that I didn't do it sooner, but at the time I felt cruel and disloyal.

[LittleMama]

Oh wow. I hope she gets good support from a friend, and maybe he finds a friend to listen to him and give him some good advice on ways to get out of whatever he is currently stuck in. You are all right, it will strain the entire family more the more it goes on. Prayer, therapy, a good friend, a life coach... all of these things can help.

[Hane]

I was there, back in my 20s. I learned the hard way that I had to get the hell out and support myself and our kid. Yes, I wanted to be the cared-for delicate flower, but it just wasn't happening.

Sure, a guy can be depressed, otherwise mentally ill, or just plain slack-twisted. But at some point, he has to choose to straighten himself out. As my shrink told me, "Don't let him drag you down the chute with him."

[Peas n carrots]

I'm sorry, but when you do grown-up things sometimes you have to act like a grown-up. That means dealing with this issue. If it's above your head...get help from a trained professional. But she needs to deal with it on some level.

The real world doesn't allow you to "not" grow up. At some point we all have to confront reality. I though the advice given was very very good but I suppose that is only something feminist hussies do and poster should just double down and pray.

[browngrl]

That conversation just makes me sad.

I feel sorry for the husband because he seems depressed/anxious/have another mental health issue and would almost certainly benefit from treatment by a trained professional rather than just being "prayed over". I feel sorry for the wife because she thinks she is too weak to handle life. How can anyone worship a god that makes them "less" or "the weaker vessel"? I feel sorry for their family because if they got treatment/counselling for stress/depression and if both shared the burden of caring for their family then almost certainly their lives would improve.

Once again we see the sad sequelae of patriarchy and fundamentalism.

[grovelina]

His first job as a married young man he quit and his boss found out through me. After he quit he couldn't cope and pull himself together and i had to step up and take the lead.Given he was 19.But this sort of set the stage for the future.

What I am getting from this part of the quote is that she quit his job for him. And if this set the stage for the rest of their marriage, I imagine she is doing all sorts of leading because of his depression. I bet by now, she has gotten good at managing everything. This couple is an example of why not all men are called to be the decision-making head-of-household. :angry-banghead: Trying to shove everyone into strict gender roles when they clearly don't fit causes more mental anguish.

[RachelB]

That was a tragic read. Sounds like he's depressed and she's on her way there too - depression can be 'catching' in relationships.

I wish she would say, "This is not a spouse problem. This is a problem for a professional. I'm worried about you, and I will come with you to your first appointment if that will make it easier for you to keep it."

Part of what finally made me seek mental health care was that I saw how hard my emotions and coping strategies were for my partner to deal with. He has struggled with depression, and I didn't want being around me to be a depression trigger for him. The therapist I started seeing was able to use my care for how my partner was feeling and doing as a way to help me start working on self-care.

It was hard for my partner to say, "Sometimes it hurts and scares me to see how much you dislike yourself." But it ranks up there with the greatest kindnesses anyone has ever given me.

[infooverload]

I read through the thread. I think some of the women had decent suggestions other than just pray. The one who said to have her husband to narrow down what he likes and doesn't like about the current situation was good. There was one who suggested going to a college for career counseling. I think they just need counseling and a way to figure out how to ease the tension of not having job stability. Along the issue of him not being able to work together constructively to solve problems.