17 yo Mary Maxwell is just starting her Junior year.

[Justme]

I'm not familiar with what's on a GED. Do they have questions about subjects that Stevie "shelters" his kids from? Does it ask about classic literature or world history?

[Jana814]

I had a few classmates that had October and November birthdays so they were still 16 at the beginning of our senior year. Same thing with my stepsister. And I also had a classmate that turned 19 Sept of our senior year, at one point he was three years older than our youngest classmates.

Their was a kid like that in the class under me. So weird.

[bananacat]

In my area, it was common for kids to repeat kindergarten, fourth grade, or eighth grade, mostly out of maturity or to catch up rather than actually failing. The idea was that it's better for kids to get a good foundation than to just keep pushing them through. So by the time I was in high school, at least a third of the students were a year older than would be expected. I have a summer birthday so I was usually one of the youngest in my classes. These two factors meant that about half my friends in my own grade were two years older than me. It just wasn't a big deal. I was always very mature for my age so it wasn't a problem, but a lot of kids need an extra year somewhere along the way to catch up.

I was 16 during my junior year and I started college at 17 but that's because I went a year early. If I had followed the standard schedule I would have turned 18 right before starting college.

[mockingbird]

In my area, it was common for kids to repeat kindergarten, fourth grade, or eighth grade, mostly out of maturity or to catch up rather than actually failing. The idea was that it's better for kids to get a good foundation than to just keep pushing them through. So by the time I was in high school, at least a third of the students were a year older than would be expected. I have a summer birthday so I was usually one of the youngest in my classes. These two factors meant that about half my friends in my own grade were two years older than me. It just wasn't a big deal. I was always very mature for my age so it wasn't a problem, but a lot of kids need an extra year somewhere along the way to catch up.

Repeating kindergarten was somewhat common where I grew up, especially if you had a summer birthday. There were a few kids in my private elementary school who did a year of public kindergarten before starting kindergarten with us (I think the draw for that was different environments).

My sister has a summer birthday and she also had severe speech problems as a toddler/preschooler but could read early. She was able to get into a special education preschool through the public schools and "graduated" when she would be starting kindergarten just turning five at the start of the year. The preschool also admitted a small number of developmentally-typical kids to be "mentors" and had a preference for kids who had "graduated" the program. It was a three year preschool so there was a pre-K year my sister had not done yet. My parents decided to do that with her since they thought she would benefit from a year to mature in the long run (based on her personality) even though she was probably academically ready for kindergarten. So she just started high school turning 15 a few days before classes started. I also have a good friend whose birthday is a month later than my sister and was not held back. I agree Mary's educational level is pretty typical for her age but it is weird that they made such a big deal about her graduating early and she's not on track to do that. There's nothing wrong with that either for a typical kid but with the Maxwells I kind-of suspect there is something more going on or they deliberately decided not to let her graduate early for some reason.

[ShesCrafty]

A bit off topic, but I have to disagree with those saying that retaining a student is effective. It's actually much more likely to harm than help. Students who are held back in elementary school often show improvements in the following 2 to 3 years and are then behind again. They are also much more likely to drop out of school. It is a common practice and touted as giving the student a year to "catch up", even though research has shown it doesn't work. I realize that there are people who have been retained and are now a surgeon/rocket scientist/ astronaut, but statistically, it's ineffective for the vast majority. Here's a link to the National Association of School Psychologists official policy, it has some good basic information and links to some research articles if anyone is interested.

http://www.nasponline.org/resources/han ... ention.pdf

Edited to sound less sarcastic, which I most definitely was not trying to be in the first place. I think it just comes naturally to me :)

[dairyfreelife]

I'm not familiar with what's on a GED. Do they have questions about subjects that Stevie "shelters" his kids from? Does it ask about classic literature or world history?

Yes. I am helping one of my good friends study for his GED (dropped out at 16 and regrets that more than anything else). It has US history, World History, geography, government and civics in the Social Studies, Math from Pre-Algebra to basic trig, Science (non-Creationist), and Reading/Writing/Spelling/English. The book to study is massive. Since said friend dropped so young, he is way behind and we are starting from scratch. However, it's just a more intense form of the ACT really. All the stuff you would have learned in high school is tested on.

[thoughtful]

Steve determined that graduating early had become an idol so Mary was demoted 4 grades. She's not a Jr in High school but in jr high school -- and thus not marriageable for several more years, so she & her sisters are not spinsters -- stop saying that!

(disclaimer: I'm all about spinster pride, but you know it drives the Maxwells crazy)

Edited cos my thoughts only come in dribbles when I'm coffee-deprived

Also, it's a little-known fact* that Steve grades on the frequency of the following words in one's writing and oh-so-fascinating conversation:

Heart

Jesus

Daddy

Death

LORD

Mary has only been using them 57% of the time Steve expects them.

*as in, I just made it up -- but doesn't it sound like something he'd do?

[Miggy]

I feel a bit dirty defending the Maxwells but ...

All of my Home Schooling friends and family just use the grade name/number as a way of keeping count rather than as a reflection of the work they are doing. For example, my twelve year old niece will tell you she is in year 7 but most of her text books are year 9 or 10. I read the post to mean that Mary has been schooling long enough to be a Junior, rather than that she is up to doing Junior level work. I could be wrong.

Slightly off topic but the fact the home schoolers use number of years rather than work level drives me crazy. I know several families who enter Spelling, Writing and Maths Competitions against school kids. They always enter their school year not their work level and then brag about their great results and how much better home school is. They refuse to see that if a school child is accelerated, that child is required to participated at the higher grade level. So my daughters friend who is in Yr 9 but doing Yr 11 maths, has to compete in the yr 11 competition - not yr 9. I see the home schoolers actions as teaching their children to cheat rather than as an example of their great achievements. The fact they allow their slower children to compete at work level "oh but he repeated" makes it even worse. Why can they see this child repeated but not that one accelerated? Grr. Now I will get off my soapbox.

[Justme]

I wonder how much of history they were taught. Do they know about Hitler and the holocaust? Have they studied the famine of the dark ages or the Irish potato famine? Have they heard the reasons behind WWI? How about the histories of other countries. I love learning about history and could watch The History Channel all day.

My guess is they were taught a sanitized version of a few key events and little else.

[LilMissMetaphor]

Around here, many high schoolers go back for a 'victory lap' and graduate at 19 instead of 18 (cut off date here is December 31st so pretty much everyone in your grade was born in the same year). Some people do it because they need to re-take courses to graduate or raise their grades to get into university, but plenty do it just because they're not quite ready to move on.

I did this, mainly because my parents thought I was not quite ready. I don't know if they were right or not. I was 18 going on 19 when I started university.

[paganhomeschooler]

Yes. Homemade by their parents, who have registered the homeschool as a private school, it's something like "Flowing Streams Christian Academy" if I recall correctly (and I'm sincere - not trying to make a joke!) Something about a stream.

As you mention, the law says they'd need the ACT to go on to college.

Here's where I'm wondering, though - I can understand homeschooling, but I wonder how it is in the real world for your FINAL degree to be homeschooling with only a diploma from Mom and Dad.

Kids who go on to college obviously have a final degree that's not homeschool. Kids who homeschool most of their lives but then go into high school for the final two years (partly for the experience, partly because of this issue) have their final degrees not from homeschool even if they never go to college. Kids who do only homeschool but then get a GED, their final degree is a GED. Etc.

It just seems to me that a lot of things would be easier if they also did get the GED. If their homeschool is actually doing as well as public schools, they should be able to take the GED no problem without any particular prep, and they have enough toys at home that it seems the fee wouldn't be excessive for them.

ETA I suspect along with others that might be a big "IF." I don't know what curriculum they use either.

Actually, many colleges will accept a homeschool "diploma", especially if it comes with a good transcript or portfolio, no GED required. Some colleges even specifically go after homeschoolers because of a better work ethic, don't need hand holding during class, used to exploring subjects in depth, etc. (REAL homeschoolers...not SOTDRT homeschoolers.) There are numerous families in my local homeschooling groups who have students who attended/are attending ivy league schools and prestigious art schools with nothing more than their "homeschool diploma". They've also gotten scholarships and financial aid if need be. There are different ways to go about it, as well. (This was actually just a big discussion in our FB group recently.) There are umbrella schools one could also join to get an "accredited" diploma. Some people sign up as 08 schools. I'm really not too clear on this, but what I have gathered over the years is they basically sign up to become a sort of charter school, so while they're homeschooling, they are technically considered an actual school. There are, of course, also people who have had their kids take the GED, ACTs, SATs, other standardized tests, etc.

One little gem....if my oldest would for any reason decide to go back to being traditionally homeschooled and "graduated" homeschool, she would not be able to graduate when she would if she was in public school because of her age. She is the youngest in her class because she was accelerated halfway through kindergarten. She's in 8th grade and won't be 13 for another month and a half. Compulsory attendance for homeschooling in our state is 6-18, so, even though she has completed all of the schooling, say if she decided she wanted to come home for senior year, we would have to notify the following year as well, and she would have to wait to "graduate" until she was 18 after our local district's cut off date, which is Sept. 30. Homeschooling laws are different in each state, though. We live in a state with moderate homeschooling regulations. Some are much stricter, some are much less.

ETA: Riffles.

[Coconut Flan]

Wouldn't going to college count as being in school? It did/does in our state.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

I haven't seen or remembered what textbooks Terified uses so I tried to Google for it. I'm guessing it's Abeka or similar. If so I'd think their kids should finish very early if they apply themselves at all. Perhaps Stevus has thrown in an IT course that is bogging Mary down. In the search I found this forum which was interesting. It seems to be conservative homeschoolers and they find Steve extreme in many ways. It begins with a report on attending a conference. I'm sorry if it's been linked before. I hadn't seen it.

forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/150618-i-went-to-a-steve-teri-maxwell-workshop-last-night/

Really interesting. Thanks for posting. Looks like other people besides FJ have a problem the Maxhell's

[salex]

So if there's no government mandated level she has to reach to graduate, it must be up to Steve and Teri to determine if she's ready. And clearly they think she isn't. Which makes me wonder why? Has dear little Mary been straying from the path?!

I don't know enough about these people to know--is she the youngest? Because they may worry that if they are no longer actively homeschooling, they will have aged out of the homeschooling circuit (younger people coming in with their own books to sell every year, I suspect).

[terranova]

I don't know enough about these people to know--is she the youngest? Because they may worry that if they are no longer actively homeschooling, they will have aged out of the homeschooling circuit (younger people coming in with their own books to sell every year, I suspect).

Yes, Mary is the youngest. I think the Maxwells have enough of a following and that enough people worship them that they will stay relevant for a while. They still seem to flog off chorepacks and I really hope their children don't need those anymore.

I suspect the previous posters who mentioned Steve keeping Mary back so he can be in control are correct.

[HOTW]

Yes. I am helping one of my good friends study for his GED (dropped out at 16 and regrets that more than anything else). It has US history, World History, geography, government and civics in the Social Studies, Math from Pre-Algebra to basic trig, Science (non-Creationist), and Reading/Writing/Spelling/English. The book to study is massive. Since said friend dropped so young, he is way behind and we are starting from scratch. However, it's just a more intense form of the ACT really. All the stuff you would have learned in high school is tested on.

All this plu an essay (which catches a LOT o the takers), both my kids took it as soon as they turned 17(NYS requires HSers to be 17 rather than the acceptable 16 for dropouts) and my DD flunked the essay and had to retake that portion(wierd thing if you flunk the essay they don't grade the whole Section yet if you pass essay and flunk written, they grade the essay) and when I took in her grade paper to sign her up for another test date the woman was very impressed with her score at that point?!( WTF) We had the kids do GED becase 1- they were accelerated and it was the only way to get them out of the system at that point 2. we will be moving out of th ecountry in a few months and its just easier to have the GED diploma for their college admittance. 3. they were tired of being in HS so opted for taking the GED. It is scored so the total is out o f 4000 so it can be minimalized to a GPA (DS told me thAT tidbit) Both my kids took the test cold(they were no eligible for the GED class because they were under the age of 21) and both scored within 30 points of each other so I guess my schooling was pretty consistent....

[Justme]

Really interesting. Thanks for posting. Looks like other people besides FJ have a problem the Maxhell's

It think the thread also shows that a lot of people weren't familiar with the Maxwell's before they went to their "sessions". They went because their church, or an area church, was hosting, and/or were invited by friends. It's what we've been suspecting all along. The repeat "viewership" is low, so they are constantly looking for new audiences.

[twin2]

It think the thread also shows that a lot of people weren't familiar with the Maxwell's before they went to their "sessions". They went because their church, or an area church, was hosting, and/or were invited by friends. It's what we've been suspecting all along. The repeat "viewership" is low, so they are constantly looking for new audiences.

That was an interesting read. I think she summed it up best with this

They advocate a level of family togetherness that seems quite insular, to a degree that is unhealthy

I do think many that go to the conferences aren't aware. I think what tends to happen is someone from a church comes across their blog, sponsors an event and people from the church show up as it sounds interesting. The fact the go to churches to shell the wares baffles me. Steve pulled his family out of a church and preaches against them. During one of last years romps I looked at some of the churches hosting them, many have very active youth programs, something Steve-O abhors. I really wonder if the churches did their due diligence on them before booking the conference, if they would turn them down.

[Justme]

That was an interesting read. I think she summed it up best with this

I do think many that go to the conferences aren't aware. I think what tends to happen is someone from a church comes across their blog, sponsors an event and people from the church show up as it sounds interesting. The fact the go to churches to shell the wares baffles me. Steve pulled his family out of a church and preaches against them. During one of last years romps I looked at some of the churches hosting them, many have very active youth programs, something Steve-O abhors. I really wonder if the churches did their due diligence on them before booking the conference, if they would turn them down.

If they didn't go to churches, where else would they go? They need a FREE place to perform. Plus, a church makes them appear legitimate. Hypocrisy at it's best.

[salex]

I live in the KC area--Leavenworth is ~30 miles from KC and I had never heard of them until I joined this board. Never saw their name on a "speaking soon" church sign etc.

[dairyfreelife]

Actually, many colleges will accept a homeschool "diploma", especially if it comes with a good transcript or portfolio, no GED required. Some colleges even specifically go after homeschoolers because of a better work ethic, don't need hand holding during class, used to exploring subjects in depth, etc. (REAL homeschoolers...not SOTDRT homeschoolers.) There are numerous families in my local homeschooling groups who have students who attended/are attending ivy league schools and prestigious art schools with nothing more than their "homeschool diploma". They've also gotten scholarships and financial aid if need be. There are different ways to go about it, as well. (This was actually just a big discussion in our FB group recently.) There are umbrella schools one could also join to get an "accredited" diploma. Some people sign up as 08 schools. I'm really not too clear on this, but what I have gathered over the years is they basically sign up to become a sort of charter school, so while they're homeschooling, they are technically considered an actual school. There are, of course, also people who have had their kids take the GED, ACTs, SATs, other standardized tests, etc.

One little gem....if my oldest would for any reason decide to go back to being traditionally homeschooled and "graduated" homeschool, she would not be able to graduate when she would if she was in public school because of her age. She is the youngest in her class because she was accelerated halfway through kindergarten. She's in 8th grade and won't be 13 for another month and a half. Compulsory attendance for homeschooling in our state is 6-18, so, even though she has completed all of the schooling, say if she decided she wanted to come home for senior year, we would have to notify the following year as well, and she would have to wait to "graduate" until she was 18 after our local district's cut off date, which is Sept. 30. Homeschooling laws are different in each state, though. We live in a state with moderate homeschooling regulations. Some are much stricter, some are much less.

ETA: Riffles.

To the bolded, that's quite a leap of assumption. I don't believe for a moment that homeschoolers have a better work ethic, are more dedicated to subjects and I do not believe they don't need less hand-holding. I get tired of homeschoolers having this superior attitude. It doesn't matter what school a child goes to, what matters is parental involvement in their education.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I realize colleges accept some homeschoolers, yes (and then those homeschoolers go on to have a final degree that is NOT homeschooling). To get into college, usually kids take the ACT or SAT (in the US), the homeschoolers take those same tests. So there's some test they pass, also.

My question was more about kids who homeschool and then don't do any other school, but then never get a GED either. So their final degree is a high school graduation with no outside body involved. It just seems that might be hard later on in arenas that have nothing to do with school (i.e. employment)? Or maybe not?

If Mary was planning to go to college after homeschool I wouldn't think twice about her not ALSO getting a GED. The college degree would solve any issues, and even if she dropped out she'd have "some college" on applications for jobs. But since she's not going to college, it made me think if I were in that situation I'd want the GED - but now of course I'm remembering that she's ALSO not intending to ever look for a job.

But, you never know what can happen in your future, so... if I were her, I'm paranoid, I'd probably want the GED, might as well get it while you haven't forgotten anything yet, y'know? :) Right after graduation. Keep the momentum...

[bluelady]

My daughter missed the state cut off date by one week, so she will also be 17 for most of her junior year. She is typically one of the oldest in her grade as a result. I remember that in kindergarten, there were a couple of boys who barely made the cutoff date, and were therefore almost an entire year younger than her - the teacher even stated that there was a big difference in development as a result.

The way it works here is that kids need to be turning 5 by the end of the calendar year in order to enter kindergarten. My birthday is January 18, so I missed the cut-off my a little over two weeks. I graduated high school with a girl who was born on December twenty-something or other. I was as close to being a full year older than her as you could get.

It's funny how your perceptions colour things, though. In my head, I consider myself the same age as that girl I graduated with, but a year younger than my SO who, being born in October, graduated a year ahead of me even though I'm much closer in age to him.

[treemom]

That was an interesting read. I think she summed it up best with this

I do think many that go to the conferences aren't aware. I think what tends to happen is someone from a church comes across their blog, sponsors an event and people from the church show up as it sounds interesting. The fact the go to churches to shell the wares baffles me. Steve pulled his family out of a church and preaches against them. During one of last years romps I looked at some of the churches hosting them, many have very active youth programs, something Steve-O abhors. I really wonder if the churches did their due diligence on them before booking the conference, if they would turn them down.

The church which hosted them here in memphis was so not a Steve church. It is a baptist church, but very mainstream. Above fundie lite even they do hold views I abhor. Women working, active youth and sports programs. It is a mega church in one of the suburbs here. I am sure there is pants wearing at Sunday service by many. It is very mainstream.

The psychologist we saw for marriage counseling used to be the pastor of counseling there. Something I think that would boggle the maxwells.

[twin2]

The psychologist we saw for marriage counseling used to be the pastor of counseling there. Something I think that would boggle the maxwells.

Oh, I would loooooove to hear Steve's view on marriage counselors.......