The Betrothal of Joshua (Ohlman) and Laura (Camp)

[Cheetah]

Maybe this is old news to those of you who have been on FJ for a while, but it's blowing my mind. I was trying to catch up on some No Longer Qivering posts (I'm lukewarm on these and sort of skim-read) but found a post that had 53 comments...called "Why Betrothal isn't the Answer" which was cross-posted from the blog "True Love Doesn't Rape". The reason for all the comments is that the blog author had borrowed a publicly available photo of Laura Camp to illustrate the post and her mom showed up to try to get it removed but was being rude.

 

Anyway, that's a side note to my main point (and interesting in itself... feel free to discuss ;-)). BUT what I wanted to bring up here was the betrothal contract from Vaughn Ohlman's blog (True Love Doesn't Wait):

 

"It is with great joy in the mighty blessing of the Lord that we, the undersigned, in obedience to God do Covenant or Witness thereto that:

 

Joshua Phillip Ohlman

and

Laura Marie Camp

 

Are this the 23rd day of August, 2013 bound in the sight of God and man in the unbreakable Covenant of Betrothal; are now husband and wife to each other; and await the blessed day when they will come together physically.

 

In this covenant we bind ourselves or our children to the following:

 

A lifelong continual sexual union in which the body of each spouse belongs to the other.

A union which shall be ever open to the blessing of children; and where the children shall be raised in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

A union in which the husband shall love his wife, as Christ loves the Church; washing her in the water of the word.

A union in which the wife shall love and respect her husband, love her children, and keep the home; helping raise her children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

A union, under Christ, with the husband as its head, the wife as his submissive helpmeet, and the children bound in obedience to their parents.

 

 

We make this Covenant with the following purposes and goals:

 

That fornication may be avoided by the God given use of the marriage bed.

That a Godly seed may be raised up.

That the word of God be not blasphemed.

That God’s command to be fruitful and multiply, replenish the Earth, subdue it, and have dominion over it, may be obeyed.

That the relationship between Christ and the Church may be reflected.

That, above all, God may be glorified.

 

What God has joined together let not man put asunder."

with room for signing by many witnesses...

 

I bolded the bits that had me shaking my head... this is just..... gross!!! These people are soooo obsessed by sex!!! Can you imagine signing a contract with your Father-In-Law to be (as well as your own dad) that laid out so much detail about your sex life??? Holy cow!

[Cannelle]

A union in which the husband shall love his wife, as Christ loves the Church; washing her in the water of the word.

A union in which the wife shall love and respect her husband, love her children, and keep the home; helping raise her children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

And note, of course, that this makes no mention of the father doing any raising or loving of these children, just the mother. The dad's responsibilities end at orgasm, I see.

[DomWackTroll]

...and await the blessed day when they will come together physically.

And they call themselves modest??? Bitch, I don't need to know that, okay?

[Mela99]

I don't even UNDERSTAND half that...

[Dandruff]

And they call themselves modest??? Bitch, I don't need to know that, okay?

Are they adults? I wonder what they're waiting for...though I really don't want to know.

[louisa05]

Why do people so devoted to "family values" have to promise to love their children? Shouldn't that come naturally? And why isn't the father of these children obligated to love them?

[gardenvarietycitizen]

A quick google brings up tons of hits saying they only knew each other a total of TWO HOURS before getting betrothed like this? What kind of craziness is this?

[flojo]

A quick google brings up tons of hits saying they only knew each other a total of TWO HOURS before getting betrothed like this? What kind of craziness is this?

:shock: How can any of these people think this is a good idea?

[sleepygirl1]

So are they married? Is this like an engagement?

[HomegirlRuby]

:shock: How can any of these people think this is a good idea?

Because god and Jesus!!! Speshul little hornballs.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

So are they married? Is this like an engagement?

I only first heard of these people from reading the OP, but if you look at the announcement of the betrothal it sure does seem to read like a permanent thing - as if once this happens, that's it, they can't yet have teh sweet, sweet fellowship (why not?) but they can't ever divorce for the rest of their lives.

...which is just... lolwut?

[singsingsing]

I'm less concerned about the sex talk and more concerned that this looks like an arranged marriage where the contracting parties are the parents, and the consent of either of the 'children' entering the betrothal/marriage is meaningless.

[sleepygirl1]

I only first heard of these people from reading the OP, but if you look at the announcement of the betrothal it sure does seem to read like a permanent thing - as if once this happens, that's it, they can't yet have teh sweet, sweet fellowship (why not?) but they can't ever divorce for the rest of their lives.

...which is just... lolwut?

Thanks for explaining!

[Cheetah]

I just stumbled into this yesterday so haven't read much about it yet. But here's a post from the father of the groom-to-be, Vaughn Ohlman, explaining the concept (sort of):

truelovedoesntwait.com/the-path-to-marriage/the-binding-covenant-of-betrothal/what-is-betrothal/

I'm not really sure if the idea is that betrothed couples CAN do stuff like hold hands and kiss... or not. In any case, he seems to be very pro marrying quite young.

[tropaka]

I'm less concerned about the sex talk and more concerned that this looks like an arranged marriage where the contracting parties are the parents, and the consent of either of the 'children' entering the betrothal/marriage is meaningless.

This doesn't just look like an arranged marriage, it totally is one.

[emiliawasframed]

What I want to know is, how old are the son and daughter? Are we talking about eight-year-olds or teenagers here? Presumably they are old enough to have legible signatures given the makeup of the form posted on the website.

[keepercjr]

What I want to know is, how old are the son and daughter? Are we talking about eight-year-olds or teenagers here? Presumably they are old enough to have legible signatures given the makeup of the form posted on the website.

From what I could find, he is 22 and I believe she is about 20.

some lovelies from a Q &A series with the groom truelovedoesntwait.com/the-path-to-marriage/joshua-ohlman-interview-1/

What are you looking to the most about getting married?

(snip)

And, the idea of having a help meet, you know, one of the littlest, littlest things that’s always bothering me is the fact that, now that I’m living by myself, I have to cook my own food. You know, it’s not just a matter of laziness. To admit, sometimes I’m lazy. But it takes time, and right now, I’m trying to work extra hours on this project that we have to get done on a deadline, and I’m not as good a cook as hopefully my wife would be. And, you know, sometimes I want to rest after sitting in front of a computer all day, and maybe cooking would be a good way to rest, but it’s just one of those things. It’s not by accident that the wife is the cook in the home 90% of the time.

What if, for some reason, the prospective wife was someone who didn’t want to have kids or at least not many or who wanted to work outside the home? Would those be issues where you would be hesitant about entering into the marriage?

All three of those questions kind of argue against two of my definitions of marriage belief: So, when I say “marriageâ€, it’s pretty simple, but two of the things that I sort of add into the definition of marriage are: that the husband is the authority and that children are part of the purpose of marriage. And having children, as many as God gives, in some ways, I see that as part of the definition of marriage. And you know, that could be debated. Is that really part of marriage or whatever? But, I would argue that it is, and I would probably say, “here is the vow, and the vow includes kidsâ€. And, if she’s willing to agree with the vow and not just lying, then that’s OK.

and some gems by the father of the groom Von truelovedoesntwait.com/the-path-to-marriage/if-courtship-were-honest/

[polecat]

From what I could find, he is 22 and I believe she is about 20.

some lovelies from a Q &A series with the groom truelovedoesntwait.com/the-path-to-marriage/joshua-ohlman-interview-1/

Wow, working my way through this, and some of it is just chilling.

Is it more important that somebody be able to pay for a house or for a car and stuff like that, or is more important that they be able to provide the spiritual leadership that they need?

Yes, yes I do believe that providing at least a house is important if you have the QF mentality.

[doggie]

I'm less concerned about the sex talk and more concerned that this looks like an arranged marriage where the contracting parties are the parents, and the consent of either of the 'children' entering the betrothal/marriage is meaningless.

Well that is the way it was done on biblical times.

[ThatSnark]

Well that is the way it was done on biblical times.

EXACTLY. If it was good enough for people holy enough to be in the Bible, it's good enough for us modern unknowns.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Well, hell. If they're 22 and 20 and the whole idea is they can never divorce again, why not just get married already? Why bother with all the "betrothal" nonsense?

[uber frau]

Because Jesus.

Well, because super-speshul snowflake Christian , anyway...

[BackseatMom]

I don't.... I just don't understand. What is even the point of the delay?

[CancerBomb]

This is like betrothal contracts from the Renaissance. Starting around the time of the Renaissance and Reformation, betrothals became less common and marrying for love became common. This family is backwards by about 500 years compared to the usual Fundie backwardsness of 100 years.