Do Fundies celebrate Yom Kippur?

[homeschoolmomma1]

I guess I always wanted to know if Fundies celebrate Jewish holidays and which ones have you seen in blogs?

[anniebgood]

My friend who is a member of a large Messianic Temple in Denver says they all wear white and go to services. I don't think they fast. She reasons that the Jews have so many more holidays than the traditional Christians that it's much closer to Biblical Christianity.

[GeoBQn]

Fake Jews tend to refer to Jewish holidays by really archaic names. Rosh Hashanah = "Yom Teruah," Yom Kippur = "Yom Ha-Kippurim

[thoughtful]

And a lot of faux Jews seem to love the shofar!

Promise Keepers:

More:

You can buy that one here:

theshofarman.com/cartramschristianultimate.htm

Another:

And the blog entry from which I got the last pic (the Messianic service was "SO COOL!"):

wellthoughtoutlife.blogspot.com/2009/03/shalom-shabbat-visiting-messianic.html

[Alice_Fraggle]

Wait, what? They celebrate Jewish holidays with things that say "Jesus is Lord" with a straight face. I'm not very familiar with Jewish traditions and beliefs, but I thought they didn't believe Jesus was the messiah. (Please correct me if I'm wrong - I find Judaism very interesting, and want to learn more.)

[artschooldropout]

Another:

And the blog entry from which I got the last pic (the Messianic service was "SO COOL!"):

wellthoughtoutlife.blogspot.com/2009/03/shalom-shabbat-visiting-messianic.html

That blog post kinda merits its own thread!

[GeoBQn]

Wait, what? They celebrate Jewish holidays with things that say "Jesus is Lord" with a straight face. I'm not very familiar with Jewish traditions and beliefs, but I thought they didn't believe Jesus was the messiah. (Please correct me if I'm wrong - I find Judaism very interesting, and want to learn more.)

Correct. Jews do not believe Jesus was the messiah. Jesus is completely irrelevant to the Jewish religion.

[Jana814]

Wait, what? They celebrate Jewish holidays with things that say "Jesus is Lord" with a straight face. I'm not very familiar with Jewish traditions and beliefs, but I thought they didn't believe Jesus was the messiah. (Please correct me if I'm wrong - I find Judaism very interesting, and want to learn more.)

I am Jewish and that is true we do not believe that Jesus was the messiah, we believe that he will come. Since u wanted to know a little more, on Yom Kippur u are suppose to fast from sundown to sundown to atone for any sins that you may have done in the past year. However, the fasting only happens if u are over 13 (adult in the Jewish religion) also if u have a medical problem and u have to eat that u r excused as well.

[Alice_Fraggle]

I am Jewish and that is true we do not believe that Jesus was the messiah, we believe that he will come. Since u wanted to know a little more, on Yom Kippur u are suppose to fast from sundown to sundown to atone for any sins that you may have done in the past year. However, the fasting only happens if u are over 13 (adult in the Jewish religion) also if u have a medical problem and u have to eat that u r excused as well.

Thank you for taking the time to explain Yom Kippur to me. I have a Muslim friend, and he also fasts (but I'm not sure if it's from sundown to sundown or not, but I do know that you have to reach a certain age before you're "allowed" to fast, and that you can be excused for medical reasons) during religious days. It's so interesting to see the parallels between religions.

I have a friend who has converted to Judaism, and I asked her if it's offensive for non-Jews to have a menorah, she said no, but I thought I'd ask y'all too. I think they're beautiful and would love to have one, but would never do so if it would be offensive. Thank you again for replying to me.

[GeoBQn]

I don't think I have a problem with a non-Jew owning a menorah, but I would be offended if a non-Jew were to use it as a regular candelabra (as in, lighting candles in it for a dinner party or because it would look pretty.)

[BlondeAgent007]

I don't think I have a problem with a non-Jew owning a menorah, but I would be offended if a non-Jew were to use it as a regular candelabra (as in, lighting candles in it for a dinner party or because it would look pretty.)

Yeah. I'm guessing that'd be kind of like using Communion hosts as dog treats or something. Just offensive to take a meaningful symbol and use it for something trivial.

[ThrK]

Yeah. I'm guessing that'd be kind of like using Communion hosts as dog treats or something. Just offensive to take a meaningful symbol and use it for something trivial.

It's not nearly that level of offensive! Hannukah is not "holy" the same way that other Jewish holidays are, and I think a lot of the emphasis on it that is seen in the US is as a Christmas alternative, but the Hannukiah did become particularly important/symbolic of a Jewish identity to a lot of Holocaust survivors. Personally, I would find messing with a mezuzah much more offensive. (Have those caught on with fake Jews yet?)

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

It's not nearly that level of offensive! Hannukah is not "holy" the same way that other Jewish holidays are, and I think a lot of the emphasis on it that is seen in the US is as a Christmas alternative, but the Hannukiah did become particularly important/symbolic of a Jewish identity to a lot of Holocaust survivors. Personally, I would find messing with a mezuzah much more offensive. (Have those caught on with fake Jews yet?)

A menorah is not for Hannukah, it's for Shabbos...you were perhaps thinking of a Hannukiah (sp?)? :) That is a menorah specifically for Hannukah. I'm not observant and I'm and atheist anyway so I don't personally care all that much, but yeah, I think an observant Jew would be at least annoyed if a Gentile had a menorah that they used for a regular candleholder. But just to have it in your home? I don't see the big deal. Folks collect religious objects, like icons for example, and display them in their home as art all the time.

Also, there are a lot of "artistic" menorahs made that are actually not kosher to use for ritual purposes - at least as I was told way back in my observant days. Apparently all the candles have to be at the same level - if they are not then it's basically just decorative anyway. Anyone else heard this?

[GeoBQn]

Where I grew up, people used the term "menorah" for both the chanukiyah and the 7-branch menorah, and no one ever used either type of menorah for Shabbat. I was taught that a menorah was only kosher if the non-shammas branches were all at the same level.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

I'm confused. Maybe it HAS been too long! (Well it's Yom Kippur and here I am, not fasting, not in synagogue, so there you go I guess.) But when would you use a 7-branch menorah if not on Shabbos?

[GeoBQn]

The Talmud forbids the use of the 7-branch menorah outside of the Temple. Now it exists pretty much only for symbolic purposes.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

The Talmud forbids the use of the 7-branch menorah outside of the Temple. Now it exists pretty much only for symbolic purposes.

Wow, I had no idea.

[freedomjesusfootball]

I am not sure about garden-variety fundies, but I have one friend who is part of a church called United Church of God, and they have parallels. He celebrates Yom Kippur, the festival of tents, a festival of trumpets, and passover. He also abstains from pork and shellfish but he will eat a cheeseburger. I don't understand all the details but they have definitely appropriated aspects of the Jewish holidays.

[meee]

I don't think it's offensive for a non-Jew to own a menorah, but I wouldn't recommend using it in the same way, ie lighting it on Chanukah and saying the blessings, which is something only a Jew should do.

(says an Orthodox Jew living in Israel who has fun laughing at the "fundies" on this site. Hi everyone.)

[crassy]

Thank you for taking the time to explain Yom Kippur to me. I have a Muslim friend, and he also fasts (but I'm not sure if it's from sundown to sundown or not, but I do know that you have to reach a certain age before you're "allowed" to fast, and that you can be excused for medical reasons) during religious days. It's so interesting to see the parallels between religions.

I have a friend who has converted to Judaism, and I asked her if it's offensive for non-Jews to have a menorah, she said no, but I thought I'd ask y'all too. I think they're beautiful and would love to have one, but would never do so if it would be offensive. Thank you again for replying to me.

Your friend who is a Muslim would fast for the holy month of Ramadan. It is not one day but the entire month (and it is a lunar month so it changes every year in comparison to the western calendar). He would wake up very early in the morning while it is still dark, eat a meal, and then refrain from everything including food, water, sex, etc., until sundown. At that point families and friends get together for a giant meal. Wash, rinse, repeat. You do not really have to reach a certain age before you can participate. Children sometimes participate in mini-fasting and it is not really recommended for small children (obviously). You are also exempt if you are pregnant, menstruating, nursing, have a medical issue that contraindicates a fast, or (in some cases) if you are travelling. You do, however, have to make up the fast days later for some of the reasons lsited above.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I am not sure about garden-variety fundies, but I have one friend who is part of a church called United Church of God, and they have parallels. He celebrates Yom Kippur, the festival of tents, a festival of trumpets, and passover. He also abstains from pork and shellfish but he will eat a cheeseburger. I don't understand all the details but they have definitely appropriated aspects of the Jewish holidays.

I look a look at their website, and I technically wouldn't consider this to be appropriation of something Jewish.

Unlike faux Jews, groups like United Church of God and Seventh Day Adventists are perfectly clear about who they are and what they believe. They do not use terminology which hides the connection to Christianity and Jesus. They aren't trying to imitate Jewish practices. Rather, for their own theological reasons, they believe that both the Old and New Testaments are holy, and therefore follow some of the Old Testament rules, rather than following the more common Christian beliefs that the Sabbath was moved from Saturday to Sunday, and that none of the Old Testament laws on ritual matters, diet or holidays still apply.

These groups will follow explicit teachings about dietary restrictions in Leviticus, so they will abstain from pork and shellfish. The Jewish ban on cheeseburgers, however, comes from the Talmudic interpretation of the Leviticus commandment, "do not seethe a kid in its mother's milk". Since these groups do not follow the Talmud, they would have no reason to avoid cheeseburgers or do anything other than avoid actually cooking a goat in milk.

[Alice_Fraggle]

Wow - thank you all for your input. This is so interesting!

I'd like to have a menorah just for decoration and only out during Hanukkah or the "Christmas season". I would NEVER light the candles and say the prayers - that is too far into taking someones culture that is not mine (I'm an atheist). I'm still thinking of erring on the "safe side" and not buying a menorah simply because I'm afraid that I'd have it for the wrong reasons and offend someone - which is not something I'm willing to do. Now, if a Jewish friend GAVE me a menorah and said it was fine to have out during the season then I would because it was a gift - sort of like the Moroccan head covering a friend gave me. I use it for decoration because she specifically said that it was ok to - if she saw how I was using it (as a table runner) and said that it could not be used that way I'd immediately remove it. I put up a Christmas tree, but I'm not Christian - I see it as a symbol of the season - and since Hanukkah is in the same season I'd use it as the same sort of decoration.

I once saw a menorah in an antique store used to hold necklaces. It struck me as offensive but as it's not my religion, and I know little about Judaism, I didn't say anything - should I have? Menorahs are gorgeous, but are most definitely NOT "just" a candelabra. Yikes.!

Yes - Ramadan is what I was thinking of. I actually got married during Ramadan, and this friend asked if we could have his meal put to the side so he could eat it after sundown (we had more of a lunch than a dinner). I'm sure some people would have been offended, but I was more offended for MYSELF that I didn't realize that he couldn't eat! I felt bad because he sat outside in his car while the other guests ate so he wouldn't be tempted. I felt so bad - had I known he couldn't eat I'd have had the ceremony later or something.

Anyway - thank you all for answering my questions. I find religion fascinating, but I'm always afraid that my questions will be seen as rude or offensive, so I'm glad there is a place I can ask. :D

[Ralar]

The Talmud forbids the use of the 7-branch menorah outside of the Temple. Now it exists pretty much only for symbolic purposes.

One of those purposes is as an official symbol of the State of Israel.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

One of those purposes is as an official symbol of the State of Israel.

I was gonna say, I've seen it on Israeli shekel coins.

[jingerdoe]

Those shofarot with the Jesus slogans on them make me itch like crazy (as someone who owns a shofar and uses it for Jewish ritual and fulfills a community role on Rosh Hashannah and Yom Kippur.)