Anti Vaxx Megachurch Responsible for TX Measles Outbreak

[Ms Jess]

My niece is turning 7, so she had to be 1-2 when she got the vaccine. There's no history of seizure disorders in the family. It just happened. And I know it's a one off thing but it was really scary. She's continues to get other vaccines and that was the only time she's ever had a reaction, thankfully.

On the other hand, I've had reactions because of allergies and my parents couldn't figure out it was eggs for the longest time, until I decided to make a egg mask facial when I was 12 and my face broke out in hives. Now I can't eat anything with eggs without the risk of anaphylaxis and it sucks because I'll ask if something has eggs in it, be told no, eat it, and have an allergic reaction anyway because yes, there's eggs and people don't realize it since it doesn't affect them.

I'm also allergic to some antibiotics like Cirpo and all sulfa drugs, which sucks. I know it's common but I went all these years on them and was fine and then boom, now I'm allergic.

If your niece is turning 7 now then she's in the age group to have gotten MMRV as a routine single dose when she was a young toddler. That was before it was known why/how febrile seizures occurred after MMRV more often than after the separate dosing. Now no one is supposed to get MMRV as a first dose, regardless of family history. Additionally, no one now should get MMRV as a second dose if seizures are a part of the family history.

I'm glad your niece is okay.

[flyawaystray]

Ohhhh, thanks! That was very helpful.

I'm glad she's okay too. She hasn't had any reactions since and my sister hasn't hesitated to get her vaccinated, so good on her.

[duplessis3]

Re gardisil It so protects against throat and mouth cancers caused by hpv. A friend of mine died of t throat cancer this past January that is now preventable with gardisil.

[twinmama]

My 1.5 year olds had chicken pox (caught from my shingles) when they were 10 months old. Their pedi said they do not need the chicken pox vaccine now. Schools may require it anyway, but the pedi said there's no need for the vax if you've had the pox as you're already immune.

And I know I could google this, but if you've had shingles once does the shingles vaccine do anything? It should, right? Since you can get shingles more than once unlike chicken pox.

[Dutch_girl]

I have many medical professionals in my family. I'm aware of how important vaccines are. But due to having personal experience with vaccines (side effects, allergic reactions), I am naturally a little cautious. There's nothing wrong with that. And I am not an anti-vax'er. That is just dumb. Look at Holland. In the bible belt, almost 1200 people got measles. THAT is what happens when you don't vaccinate.

Yeah.. That's why I wasn't really impressed with 20 people ;) No, just kidding, every person who gets it is one too many, it's a horrible disease.

What gets me really pissed off is that the people who choose not to vaccinate endanger others. In the Netherlands there are 1200 known cases from the beginning of may till four days ago. Healthworkers suspect that there are a lot of unknown casus, so the numbers are much higher. 60% of the cases are children in the agegroup 4-12 years old, they don't CHOOSE to against vaccination, their parents do, but they are the ones getting sick.

What also makes me furious is when people bring their unvaccinated children for a visit at the hospital. I work at labour&delivery and a couple of times I had a family coming to visit/see the newborn.. bringing a sick child!! (not really sick, just 'not feeling well' :( ), to a hospital, to a ward with newborns.. :angry-banghead:

[Joan of Snarc]

I thought you could get the shingles vaccine at 50. Has that changed recently?

Are chicken pox and shingles caused by the same herpes virus that causes cold sores? I am so very, very plagued by cold sores. I wonder if it makes me more susceptible to shingles (I had chicken pox as a kid.) I don't want to wait until I'm 60 to get that shingles vaccine.

[apple1]

I thought you could get the shingles vaccine at 50. Has that changed recently?

Are chicken pox and shingles caused by the same herpes virus that causes cold sores? I am so very, very plagued by cold sores. I wonder if it makes me more susceptible to shingles (I had chicken pox as a kid.) I don't want to wait until I'm 60 to get that shingles vaccine.

Shingles vaccine is currently recommended for age 60 and over. http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/shingles/

(I assume an individual physician can override the recommendation if he/she believes there is a reason to do so).

Chicken pox and shingles virus = Varicella zoster

Cold sores virus = Herpes simplex (not the same virus)

[ilnh98]

My doctor told me recently that the shingles vaccine is now approved for people 50 years and older.

[HoneyBunny]

My insurance company will pay for the shingles vaccine at 50 for everyone, not just special cases. I think that's changed just in the last year or two.

[paganhomeschooler]

That has no been proven yet because it has not been around long enough. If you have had chicken pox you can get shingles. It is a very painful and it is not a one time event. At the present time there is no treatment for it, that is why I suggest all my over 60 patients to get the vaccination.

It may not have been scientifically proven yet, but I personally know someone who never had a diagnosed case or any identifiable hallmarks of the chicken pox, got the vaccine, and had shingles when she was 12. This was when the vaccine was brand new, but it did happen. Varicella is a live virus vaccination and can cause a mild case of the chickenpox when administered. You are exposed to the virus, so you still have the opportunity to develop shingles.

And then there's this from the CDC fact sheet cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/varicella/fs-parents.html: "You can still get chickenpox if you have been vaccinated against the disease. But it is usually milder with less than 50 blisters and little or no fever." and this "If a person vaccinated for chickenpox gets the disease, they can still spread it to others." Just so people don't have a false sense of security that the vaccine is the end-all, be-all like the polio vaccine has been. If you receive the vaccine and get a milder case, you can also get shingles, even with having the vaccine. I have personally seen cases where children who were immunized did, indeed, develop physician-diagnosed cases of the chicken pox; thus, they would be susceptible to shingles.

There may be no cure for shingles, but antivirals given at the onset can help treat the symptoms and lessen their frequency and duration.

[Daisy4]

I know that the vaccines = autism business is nonsense, but what on earth are people thinking that polio/measles/any disease we vax against is better than autism!? I would rather my child risk autism than polio. But thank goodness that is not a choice or a risk we have to worry about.

I completely don't believe that vaccines cause autism and my daughter has and will be fully vaxxed. However, i had mumps as a child and it wasn't that bad, I'd rather my child have mumps (as i experienced it) than autism. Of course this doesn't matter since they are 100% unrelated.

[flyawaystray]

Oh man....when I was a kid, my mom said that I had an allergic reaction to MMR. Apparently it's made with egg proteins or something. That explains a lot. If anyone happens to know what other vaccines contain eggs, that would be neat. I think it's MMR, yellow fever, h1h1 and the flu vaccine. Although as someone pointed out, the FDA did approve of a flu vaccine for those with egg allergies.

[Carla Bruni]

Chiming in to say that people who don't vax need to move themselves and their offspring to the woodlands of Montana and stay there forever with no human contact. Because what the actual fuck.

ETA: for those of you against Gardasil - I'm a 27-year-old woman with a graduate degree and a doctor for a mom. I'm not exactly ignorant when it comes to health. I know for a fact that I was exposed to HPV by a partner I trusted after I got Gardasil (because you better believe I was first in line for it, as I've seen women die of cervical cancer). I just tested clear for all testable strains. If that's not reason enough to vaccinate yourself and your daughters, I don't know what is.

[Antipodes]

If your child has an egg allergy you can get them vaccinated at your local children's hospital. They supervise the child after vaccination and have all the necessary equipment on hand.

At least that's what happens in Australia.

[flyawaystray]

Chiming in to say that people who don't vax need to move themselves and their offspring to the woodlands of Montana and stay there forever with no human contact. Because what the actual fuck.

ETA: for those of you against Gardasil - I'm a 27-year-old woman with a graduate degree and a doctor for a mom. I'm not exactly ignorant when it comes to health. I know for a fact that I was exposed to HPV by a partner I trusted after I got Gardasil (because you better believe I was first in line for it, as I've seen women die of cervical cancer). I just tested clear for all testable strains. If that's not reason enough to vaccinate yourself and your daughters, I don't know what is.

I thought after 25, Gardasil is not guaranteed to work.

The head developer of Gardasil admitted that it wasn't tested properly and stuff, so I'm wary for a good reason. Merck also gave a 6 million dollar payout for the families of people who have either died as a result of the vaccine, or experience side effects. I am not comfortable with the vaccine, and I think that it's my right to feel that way. Everyone needs to make up their own mind and decide what is right for them.

I've got every other vaccine I can get otherwise.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Melissa Etheridge and her ex are going to court over vaccinations:

radaronline.com/exclusives/2013/08/melissa-etheridge-ex-wife-court-refuses-allow-children-vaccinated/

the ex wants them vaccinated and Melissa is against vaccines.

[gustava]

I thought after 25, Gardasil is not guaranteed to work.

The head developer of Gardasil admitted that it wasn't tested properly and stuff, so I'm wary for a good reason. Merck also gave a 6 million dollar payout for the families of people who have either died as a result of the vaccine, or experience side effects. I am not comfortable with the vaccine, and I think that it's my right to feel that way. Everyone needs to make up their own mind and decide what is right for them.

I've got every other vaccine I can get otherwise.

My understanding is that it needs to be given before the first sexual encounter.

[dawbs]

I thought after 25, Gardasil is not guaranteed to work.

The head developer of Gardasil admitted that it wasn't tested properly and stuff, so I'm wary for a good reason. Merck also gave a 6 million dollar payout for the families of people who have either died as a result of the vaccine, or experience side effects. I am not comfortable with the vaccine, and I think that it's my right to feel that way. Everyone needs to make up their own mind and decide what is right for them.

I've got every other vaccine I can get otherwise.

After EXPOSURE to HPV, the vaccine is less likely to work. That is the main reason for the age 25 cut-off--the odds that a woman has already been exposed are very high (and that's also the reason for getting at at such a relatively young age)

And...where the heck are you getting this info from what the developer allegedly 'admitted'? The only places I'm seeing anything at all similar to that claim are rabidly anti-vac sites.

The only 'improper testing' BS I can find is some argument about the longevity of the immunity--since the vaccine hasn't been around for 40 years, we don't yet know if it provides 40 years worth of immunity.

(and, no, this isn't just about 'personal choice'. While HPV isn't spread through casual contact [like most of the other diseases we're discussing in this thread], it's still a disease where herd immunity is valuable. Your choice to vaccinate or not is also going to affect my daughter's health in the future)

[yetanothermeg]

My children are fully vaxed, except for the vaxes my egg-allergic child cannot receive. Gardisil, however......I don't know. Has anyone read this site? The girls and their mothers provide their email addresses, I don't feel like they are making it up. Of course, it could just be a coincidence, but I'd rather not chance it with my kids.

truthaboutgardasil.org/injuries/

[doggie]

they are being looked into but what would ever come of it? they sure claim they are not telling people not to vaccinate or go to the doctor but of course they are doing that.

http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_289563/conten ... d=9vXHgIHO

NEWARK, Texas (AP) - The teachings of televangelist Kenneth Copeland and his family focusing on the virtues of trusting God to keep healthy are under scrutiny after a cluster of measles cases linked to his family's North Texas megachurch revealed many congregants hadn't been vaccinated against the highly contagious disease.

Kenneth Copeland Ministries has won supporters worldwide through television programs, crusades, conferences and prayer request networks. He was a pioneer of the prosperity gospel, which holds that believers are destined to flourish spiritually, physically and financially.

Although church officials were quick to act after the outbreak - including hosting clinics in August where 220 people received immunization shots - and have denied they are against medical care or vaccinations, people familiar with the ministry say there is a pervasive culture that believers should rely on God, not modern medicine, to keep them well.

"To get a vaccine would have been viewed by me and my friends and my peers as an act of fear - that you doubted God would keep you safe, you doubted God would keep you healthy. We simply didn't do it," former church member Amy Arden told The Associated Press.

Health officials say 21 people were sickened with the measles after a person who contracted the virus overseas visited the 1,500-member Eagle Mountain International Church located on the vast grounds of Kenneth Copeland Ministries in Newark, about 20 miles north of Fort Worth.

Of the 21 people who contracted measles linked to the church, 16 were unvaccinated. The others may have had at least one vaccination, but had no documentation.

Symptoms of the measles, which is spread by coughing, sneezing and close personal contact with infected people, include a fever, cough and rash. Those infected are contagious from about four days before breaking out into the rash to four days after.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommends that children get two doses of the combined vaccine for measles, mumps and rubella, called the MMR. The first dose should be given when the child is 12 to 15 months old and the second at 4 to 6 years old.

During an August 2010 broadcast, Copeland expressed shock at the number of vaccinations recommended for his great-grandchild.

"I got to looking into that and some of it is criminal. ... You're not putting - what is it Hepatitis B - in an infant! That's crazy. That is a shot for a sexually transmitted disease. What? In a baby?" he said. "You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't. You better go read the can or read the thing - find out what's going on there and get the information on there because I'm telling you, it's very dangerous the things that are happening around us all the time."

His wife Gloria bragged during a conference that she and her husband don't need prescription drugs, adding that the Lord heals all diseases.

Robert Hayes, risk manager for the ministries, denied that the church's teachings ever have advised against immunizations and noted the facility includes a medical clinic staffed with a physician.

Ole Anthony, president of the Dallas-based religious watchdog group Trinity Foundation, said that while there might not be specific guidance on topics such as vaccinations, the views of the leadership are clear.

"The whole atmosphere is to encourage them to have faith, and it's no faith if they go to the doctor, that's the bottom line," Anthony said.

In a sermon posted online following the outbreak, Copeland's daughter, Terri Pearsons, who is a senior pastor at Eagle Mountain along with her husband, encouraged those who hadn't been vaccinated to have it done, but added that if "you've got this covered in your household by faith and it crosses your heart of faith, then don't go do it."

In a statement denying that she opposes vaccinations, she added the concerns they had had were "primarily with very young children who have a family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time."

A fear of the MMR vaccine can be traced to a now-discredited paper published in 1998 by British researcher Andrew Wakefield and colleagues that suggested a link between autism and the combined childhood vaccine for MMR. Repeated studies since have shown no connection, the paper was eventually rejected by the journal that published it and Britain's top medical board stripped Wakefield of the right to practice medicine.

"We do know how to effectively prevent measles. We do know that and so a choice not to do that, to put a child at risk is just an unsupportable, an unconscionable choice. And in addition, you put others at risk," said Dr. Paul Offit, chief of infectious diseases at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia.

Arden, who attended church at Eagle Mountain from 1997 to 2003 and worked at the ministries for three years, said the distrust of vaccines was so pervasive that her daughter, who as an 11-month-old was up to date on her immunizations when they joined the church, didn't get any others until they left.

"We were terrified to have any sort of fear. And anything that wasn't faith in God was fear," said Arden, 35, who now lives in New York City.

Kristy Beach, 41, said that because of the ministry's teachings, her mother, Bonnie Parker, refused to see a doctor, even as her cancer advanced rapidly. After Parker died in 2004 at age 59, Beach found her mother's diaries, which detailed the words of Kenneth and Gloria Copeland she'd heard on television in her home in Winnsboro, La.

"If she went to a doctor, it was a sin," Beach said. "You didn't believe enough if you did. She just wrote: 'God heal me. God heal me. God heal me.' "

[gustava]

They must think God is an idiot, if she wants to keep these people in the gene pool.

[EyeQueue]

Add me to the list of people who contracted full-blown pertussis. I had had a vaccination about 8 years prior to that, and still (for some reason) got whooping cough in the Northern California outbreak that happened around 2010. I would not wish that illness on my worst enemy, and damned sure wouldn't want any infants, children or elderly people getting it (and several infants died of pertussis here around the same time).

I was a relatively healthy, in shape 30-something when I got it, and it was the worst illness of my life (second only to getting chicken pox when I was 20--there was no vaccine for this when I was growing up). I was sick roughly from May of that year well into October or November. The coughing was so bad that ( :( :embarrassed: ) I wet myself several times during the paroxysms (I had to wear big pads when I went out).

And it was the scariest thing in the world to have your lungs empty out like a deflated balloon and to literally not be able to draw your next breath. When I started a teaching job in September/October of that year, I was still experiencing the coughing fits, and had to leave the classroom several times in the middle of lecture because of it. I was easily winded when walking up flights of stairs up until about a year after the illness. It was no joke.

So I really have no patience with anti-vaxxers at all. I just took my daughter in to have her first Garadasil shot, and I was checking up on her literally every half hour or so afterwards, because of all the stupidity that was going around re: "mental retardation," etc. from the right-wingers. :cry:

[lawlifelgbt]

I (think) I'm fully vaccinated. May have missed out on some of the meningitis shots, because my understanding is, it's a series. I only got the first one. But that's a much rarer illness. I've gotten all the "normal" ones and would have my future kids get them too, though I might space out the ones they need to get when they're little babies, just to reduce the chance of fever/getting sick/being really stressed out physically and mentally.

Herd immunity is really important! I go to grad school which is attached to one of the largest undergrad universities in the country. So they push the flu shot like no other, because you have 60,000+ students in one campus. They weren't as pushy with us at the law school, because we tend to stay on our own side of the river, not mixing with the undergrads, and the law school only has about 700 students. However, they did offer it free to all students and staff at any level, and had a marketing campaign. Stickers, flyers, etc. went around with a picture of a cow and the slogan "Do it for the herd!" An outbreak (of ANYTHING) with that many people living in maybe 10 square miles would be disastrous. But, that's not why I got it. Law school is so hard that you literally will fail if you're out of commission for too long! But I'm also glad I protect vulnerable groups by getting it, too.

However, I resented the marketing's implication. Even though the school is huge, we're not cattle!

[laura oz]

The shot for HPV wasn't available to me & thanks to a cheating husband I was exposed. The cold cone I had shortened my cervix, and I went through so many miscarriages that I was almost suicidal. For some reason, the cold cone wasn't on the medical records faxed to the specialist I saw, and just thought I would never have children. A circlage and progestrone shots finally made me a mother over 10 years later, and I will make damn sure that my daughter is vaxed. I was looking at the kids' shot records and it shows that my daughter has already been given the HPV shot, but will need another I think at 4 and 14. I didn't know she had already had a dose, but I'm not complaining.

[FakePigtails]

The shot for HPV wasn't available to me & thanks to a cheating husband I was exposed. The cold cone I had shortened my cervix, and I went through so many miscarriages that I was almost suicidal. For some reason, the cold cone wasn't on the medical records faxed to the specialist I saw, and just thought I would never have children. A circlage and progestrone shots finally made me a mother over 10 years later, and I will make damn sure that my daughter is vaxed. I was looking at the kids' shot records and it shows that my daughter has already been given the HPV shot, but will need another I think at 4 and 14. I didn't know she had already had a dose, but I'm not complaining.

Are you seeing the IPV (polio) vax by chance? For Gardasil the second shot's given a month after the first and the third 6 months after the first, and it's not recommended that young. In any case I'm glad you're all for it! It's so frustrating when people act like it's no big deal to not get it for their kids.