Lori Alexander: Have Sex With Your Kids In the Room

[Verin Sedai]

I just can't with the utter blindness of these people, because the very same verse they use to justify women's bodies belonging to their husband, it turns right around and says that the men's bodies belong to the women (1 Corinthians 7:4). Their ideas aren't in line with the Bible, just their own twisted oppressive patriarchy.

[wild little fox]

Who are these men who want to have sex if their wife isn't interested? What kind of sex are these people having? Without mutual love and enjoyment, it seems an exercise in release and that's it.

Or a form of rape, IMHO

[lilith]

I just can't with the utter blindness of these people, because the very same verse they use to justify women's bodies belonging to their husband, it turns right around and says that the men's bodies belong to the women (1 Corinthians 7:4). Their ideas aren't in line with the Bible, just their own twisted oppressive patriarchy.

Of course the man's body belongs to the woman. That's why she has to feed it, clothe it, clean up after it and provide its sexual relief, all things that most unowned adults manage to do for themselves. And if they didn't belong to their wives these men would be fucking all those tempting bikini girls, cause they're all such irresistible alphas. Those women are saving the souls if their men!11!1!!

[Sumeri]

I think some sense is required here. Abuse? Sure if you line your kids up at the end of the bed with some popcorn and deliberately cavort all Kama Sutra style on top of the bed giving it big licks.

I'm certainly not the only person here who remembers "Modern Parents" from Viz, am I?

I think the bigger issue with all of this is that Lori is just crazy. I mean, really, really crazed, and her husband is an abusive asshole. It worries me more that she puts his needs above EVERYTHING ELSE that is going on in the world, when she would be better off telling his childish, entitled ass to suck it up and leave her alone for a damn minute.

[Arete]

Whoa, sorry. I know I said that wrong. I didn't mean the Bible supports marital rape, or unrestricted right to sex, or anything like that. I meant that fundies have certain bible verses that they use to support their desire for such things. Whether or not such verses really apply, I couldn't say. I just know they have a few verses that they whip out whenever they want to justify this.

Oh, I know you were not saying the Bible supports marital rape. I was just illustrating how dangerous it is for semi literate Neanderthals to start interpreting a collection of writing as complex as the Bible with no cultural or historical context. Tools.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

I can't get over how dreary their lives are, meaning these fundie Christian women giving themselves over to the Patriarchy. It doesn't have to be this way, but it is as if they want to be martyrs. Sex can be fun and it can be enjoyable, but to read their blogs you would think it was on a par with washing dishes and sweeping floors. My husband likes a lot of sex and I'm not always in the mood-- but I know how to get myself into the mood because I know the pay-off will be fantastic. It's not that much different from getting myself to the gym-- I don't always want to do it, but I know it is good for my well being.

I'm guessing the biggest difference between my sex life and Lori's isn't the frequency but my mind set and my husband's thoughtful foreplay. What these people really need is a sex therapist to help them with their intimacy problems.

[Curious]

Actually no, they do not. Once again these testicles are yanking Bible verses out of their original context. People think that Christianity started the cult of celibacy and virginity, and that is wrong. These movements predate Christianity in the pagan world and were extremely popular in the first century AD, especially the cult of celibacy in some of the philosophical schools of Asia Minor. Paul was trying to steer the new Jesus movement between Judaism and paganism. There were a lot of questions on whether the Jesus movement considered the body and sexual relations impure or imperfect. That part of Paul's letter to the Corinthians was to discourage the practice of perpetual celibacy within marriage that some philosophical schools were advocating (after you had produced the requisite heirs, of course). He was trying to keep some of the more far out and "new" pagan ideals on celibacy within a marriage out of the Jesus movement, to convey that sexual relations within marriage were not impure. It was not a writ for a husband to take control of his wife's body.

These people are grossly uneducated and have no understanding of the circumstances in which a lot of the New Testament was written. They should not be allowed to read a Bible without proper supervision, much less try and justify their abnormal kink with Biblical verses.

Another thing that I notice people tend to do is to take things out of the context in which they are written. They will find a passage that is one sentence in the middle of a much larger passage contextually and rip that one out and say SEE THE BIBLE SAYS! Well, yes the Bible does say that, but it says other stuff before and after *that* which gives it context that you are ignoring.

That is one of my biggest pet peeves.

I used to belong to a club where the Board would just stop reading when they found things that worked to their benefit and say "see we can do this, despite what the membership wants." When really, no they could not because the rest of the material would actually give the power to the membership (as it should be, since the board is elected to work for the membership). The club is constantly in turmoil because of this and I didn't bother to renew my dues eventually because it was the same thing year after year.

TL;DR: You can't cherry pick

[Koala]

I can't get over how dreary their lives are, meaning these fundie Christian women giving themselves over to the Patriarchy. It doesn't have to be this way, but it is as if they want to be martyrs. Sex can be fun and it can be enjoyable, but to read their blogs you would think it was on a par with washing dishes and sweeping floors. My husband likes a lot of sex and I'm not always in the mood-- but I know how to get myself into the mood because I know the pay-off will be fantastic. It's not that much different from getting myself to the gym-- I don't always want to do it, but I know it is good for my well being.

I'm guessing the biggest difference between my sex life and Lori's isn't the frequency but my mind set and my husband's thoughtful foreplay. What these people really need is a sex therapist to help them with their intimacy problems.

I don't see how this is a whole lot different from the bullshit Lori spews. If a woman doesn't want sex she should just get herself in the mood because PAYOFF!

If you don't want sex you should say "no", not try to convince yourself that it's good for you, like taking your bp medication or eating green veggies. "No" is an acceptable answer and saying so doesn't necessarily= an intimacy problem. What they really have are boundary problems.

[Verin Sedai]

I don't see how this is a whole lot different from the bullshit Lori spews. If a woman doesn't want sex she should just get herself in the mood because PAYOFF!

If you don't want sex you should say "no", not try to convince yourself that it's good for you, like taking your bp medication or eating green veggies. "No" is an acceptable answer and saying so doesn't necessarily= an intimacy problem. What they really have are boundary problems.

No, I think there is a big difference. In Lori's world, the answer is always and must always be "yes". In HoD's proposal (I gather), the answer could be yes or no, and both would be fine. It's okay in a healthy relationship to say, "okay, but you've got to convince me." I say that a lot as a perpetually tired mom of two toddlers, and I've never felt coerced or taken advantage of in a situation like that. It's actually a decent way to make sure he takes his time (tmi?) .

[formergothardite]

Yeah, or something totally insane and depraved like Jesus creating an abundance of alcohol to keep a party going!

That was GRAPE JUICE!!!

[Koala]

No, I think there is a big difference. In Lori's world, the answer is always and must always be "yes". In HoD's proposal (I gather), the answer could be yes or no, and both would be fine. It's okay in a healthy relationship to say, "okay, but you've got to convince me." I say that a lot as a perpetually tired mom of two toddlers, and I've never felt coerced or taken advantage of in a situation like that. It's actually a decent way to make sure he takes his time (tmi?) .

I didn't really see anywhere where she said the answer could be yes or not. I saw this:

It's not that much different from getting myself to the gym-- I don't always want to do it, but I know it is good for my well being.

[Verin Sedai]

I didn't really see anywhere where she said the answer could be yes or not. I saw this:

No, she didn't say that specifically. I inferred that from the way it works in my marriage. We have a policy where both of us work hard to not say no to each other, but neither of us pressure the other to say yes. The context and tone of HoD's post led me to believe that things work similarly in her partnership/marriage so I assumed. I could be wrong, I guess, and if I am I apologize. It just seemed like I might be able to explain a bit and add to the case

[JesusFightClub]

My parents had a system of sending us to the hotel "game room" with a twenty, and telling us not to come back for an hour. Not terribly subtle, but enough that I could at least pretend. Too bad the fundies would find that too "worldly".

Yes, this. :pink-shock:

I mean, I finally understood that my mum and dad "did it" once I was past the age of, like, 10. I knew that mum and dad needed privacy at times. However, at no point could I ever imagine them expecting me and my siblings to be within two feet of us as they got it on.

So playing on the puggies or on the arcades is ebil but being in the same room while your parents fuck is OK, especially if you're a baby or a toddler. Sex education at school is a wicked Satanic plot, but being almost on top of your dad while he slips your mum one is totally healthy and normal.

Right, OK then. What is with fundies?

[Ariel]

I don't see how this is a whole lot different from the bullshit Lori spews. If a woman doesn't want sex she should just get herself in the mood because PAYOFF!

If you don't want sex you should say "no", not try to convince yourself that it's good for you, like taking your bp medication or eating green veggies. "No" is an acceptable answer and saying so doesn't necessarily= an intimacy problem. What they really have are boundary problems.

I get where HOD is coming from, I think. I've felt similarly before. I'm not really in the mood, and I'm feeling kind of lazy. I know that if I make out with my boyfriend for like 10 minutes I'll want to have sex and I'll have a good time, but I have to start the process. In that case, sometimes we have sex and sometimes we don't.

Its not so much a definite "no I don't want to have sex" as it is a "sex does sound fun but you're going to have to warm me up a bit".

[Handmaiden of Dog]

I don't see how this is a whole lot different from the bullshit Lori spews. If a woman doesn't want sex she should just get herself in the mood because PAYOFF!

If you don't want sex you should say "no", not try to convince yourself that it's good for you, like taking your bp medication or eating green veggies. "No" is an acceptable answer and saying so doesn't necessarily= an intimacy problem. What they really have are boundary problems.

Jesus, Koala, your life is not mine. I have a fantastic marriage and a phenomenal sex life. And no, it isn't like taking medicine. Christ. Do you never have orgasms? If I am sick or I am too overwhelmed with a problem, then I can easily say "No." My husband is very sensitive to doing what I want-- he is certainly not going to engage with a partner who is unenthusiastic. Sometimes (especially since menopause) I just feel a bit lazy or fat or unsexy. So I usually go into the bathroom, put on some make up and do my hair, put on a sexy nightie, and suggest my husband rub my feet or my back side. Works every time.

I think that the way that Lori thinks about sex with her husband is a problem-- that's why I think they need counseling. She is not excited about having sex with her husband for whatever reason-- my guess is because she sees it as a duty not a pleasure and so she secretly resents the whole process. I wonder how often he rubs her neck or kisses her tenderly or holds her hand? Maybe he only touches her when he wants to get his rocks off. It may be partly a boundary problem but it may also be she is not enjoying herself or allowing herself to enjoy the experience. Counseling could address both issues.

[JesusFightClub]

ONOEZ, Handmaiden! I forgot that if a woman doesn't feel that she wants to have sex 24-7, she's frigid and never orgasms! How could I be so stupid. And clearly, Koala isn't getting her arse rubbed enough. :roll:

Seriously, that was an amazing assumption to make. And if I'm honest, rather a worrying one.

[Koala]

Jesus, Koala, your life is not mine. I have a fantastic marriage and a phenomenal sex life. And no, it isn't like taking medicine.

I'm sorry, wasn't it you who wrote the following:

It's not that much different from getting myself to the gym-- I don't always want to do it, but I know it is good for my well being.

Christ. Do you never have orgasms?

Because I think a woman should say "no" if she doesn't want sex instead of doing it anyway because it's "good for her well being"???? Is that why you ask?

Also, you have implied twice that those who don't wish to have sex could be helped by counseling. I would suggest that perhaps it's okay to not want sex or counseling in order to convince yourself you want it.

[Koala]

No, she didn't say that specifically. I inferred that from the way it works in my marriage. We have a policy where both of us work hard to not say no to each other, but neither of us pressure the other to say yes. The context and tone of HoD's post led me to believe that things work similarly in her partnership/marriage so I assumed. I could be wrong, I guess, and if I am I apologize. It just seemed like I might be able to explain a bit and add to the case

I am very uneasy about the idea of a policy regarding sex that involves me working very hard not to say "no". If I don't want it then "no" is the answer. The end. If my husband doesn't want it then the answer is "no". The end.

[Curious]

Yes, this. :pink-shock:

I mean, I finally understood that my mum and dad "did it" once I was past the age of, like, 10. I knew that mum and dad needed privacy at times. However, at no point could I ever imagine them expecting me and my siblings to be within two feet of us as they got it on.

So playing on the puggies or on the arcades is ebil but being in the same room while your parents fuck is OK, especially if you're a baby or a toddler. Sex education at school is a wicked Satanic plot, but being almost on top of your dad while he slips your mum one is totally healthy and normal.

Right, OK then. What is with fundies?

Maybe this attitude is why they are afraid to let boys and girls be anywhere alone together. They are, after all, essentially teaching them that men can have sex whenever they want it, no matter who is in the vicinity. Kids are not mentally able to process things like adults are, so that whole marriage thing may not always register once those pesky hormones kick in and they've been exposed from virtually birth to the mindset that when men want sex they can have it and, in fact, are owed it.

[Verin Sedai]

I am very uneasy about the idea of a policy regarding sex that involves me working very hard not to say "no". If I don't want it then "no" is the answer. The end. If my husband doesn't want it then the answer is "no". The end.

Then... good thing I'm the one whose marriage has this policy and not yours? I'm not trying to set a standard for other people to live by, just describing another healthy functional option. I think we can all agree that within a certain spectrum (the ends of which are very fuzzy) people can have all kinds of mutually enjoyable, empowered (blah what an overused word) sex.

[BornOKThe1stTime]

...and also be perfectly normal, healthy people in a lovely functioning relationship and not have sex. There are plenty of normal people out there with low or nonexistant libido. It's fabulous when they find each other and are able to create truly intimate relationships with little or no penis-in-vagina-or-other-orifrice time. :)

[Handmaiden of Dog]

I'm sorry, wasn't it you who wrote the following:

Handmaiden of Dog wrote:

It's not that much different from getting myself to the gym-- I don't always want to do it, but I know it is good for my well being.

Handmaiden of Dog wrote:

Christ. Do you never have orgasms?

Because I think a woman should say "no" if she doesn't want sex instead of doing it anyway because it's "good for her well being"???? Is that why you ask?

Also, you have implied twice that those who don't wish to have sex could be helped by counseling. I would suggest that perhaps it's okay to not want sex or counseling in order to convince yourself you want it.

I reason why I compared sex to going to the gym is because it has a similar pay off. You chose to change my analogy and it isn't right, there is no thrilling conclusion to taking a pill. There are times when I don't want to run, but I put my work out clothes on and I get myself out there and make the effort. Pay off: euphoria, endorphin release. Sex has all that plus the added bonus of strengthening bonds between couples. Now for some reason you have automatically assumed that when I say I sometimes start sexual foreplay even when I am not at that moment in the mood, that means I think a woman can never say "no." Which is a bunch of hogwash. Of course a woman is entitled to say no anytime she wants-- who wants to have sex with a partner who is not enjoying her/himself? But how often is No being said?

I don't know the circumstances of your life, I am not addressing this to you personally, but if two people are in a relationship and they are both healthy, and if one person wants sex frequently and the other person never wants sex then I say there is a problem. You can have a perfectly fine marriage if you both agree to be celibate, but if one person is saying no all the time then that's an issue that should be addressed. I said I thought Lori and her husband could use some counseling because she never seems to enjoy it and he seems to be oblivious to that. Maybe with a little therapy she could learn to look forward to their sex life and he could learn how to make it pleasurable for her.

[Arete]

I suspect that a lot of these fundie manly men are pretty lousy in the sack. If you brook no feedback, are completely oblivious to your partner's needs, and have a huge sense of entitlement to sex, how can you not be? Ken would need a complete attitude adjustment about sex before you could even begin to address Lori's issues.

Once again, I have to marvel at their complete and utter lack of self awareness. They are both broadcasting for the entire world to know that Ken is a lousy lover and overall inconsiderate asshole. Lori quite clearly doesn't enjoy sex and doesn't have the first clue that it doesn't have to be that way. I would be bitter too if sex involved my having to close my eyes and think of Athens.