Lori Alexander: Have Sex With Your Kids In the Room

[MajorMajor]

The problem I have with this is the idea that a woman HAS to have sex even if she doesn't want to for the sake of her children. I don't think vacation sex with kids in the room is necessarily child abuse. But if you do, too bad you have to always submit. That's gross.

I only have a two year old but I don't have a problem with quiet under the sheet sex if he's in the room asleep. I prefer to go elsewhere but I don't think it's horrible or he will be traumatized.

[medievalist1980]

Uh, no, not exactly. People have not only had privacy since 1913. I'm sure even poor people in the middle ages who all shared one room found creative ways to be discrete (although some probably cared more than others) - and the point is, that was normal for them. It's not normal for us in our society. People used to do a lot of things out of necessity or perceived necessity a long time ago - doesn't mean those things are okay to do now.

Um, yes, actually many/most people in the West have only had privacy in about the last 100 years. In 1913, it would have been completely normal for many people to all sleep in one to two rooms be it a farm house or an apt. And throughout the world today the majority of people do not have privacy. Being discreet and privacy are not the same thing. And just because something squicks you out and is not normal for our society does not mean it is abuse.

[louisa05]

I am a Gen X'er (as in way over 17) and my great grandparents had a three bedroom house in a large city with a second floor apartment that they rented out. Another set had a four bedroom farm house to accommodate themselves and ten children. The poorest of my great grandparents had a small farm house with multiple bedrooms as well. Not enough to accommodate everyone, but the parents had their own private space. A great great grandmother of mine had a large enough house to rent rooms to boarders (mostly miners) after she was widowed (three stories--it is still standing). When boarding money was not enough, she used the space for something less legal and did quite well and we assume children were not in those rooms, either (for those of you who can figure out what the less legal business was). People seem to forget that 100 years ago was the 20th Century already.

There is not a lot of evidence that, for example, Native American tribes had couples going at it in front of everyone in the common housing structures. As another poster pointed out, sex often occurred at other times in the day when some privacy was available. We have to remember that we aren't talking about cultures where partners were getting up to an alarm and taking off to spend eight hour days at their jobs some place else. That is also a "new" development in the scope of history.

If we go back into the 19th Century, even sod houses built by homesteaders were often constructed with some sort of loft for children to sleep in and parents slept in the main area providing some separation and a bit of privacy (think early Little House on the Prairie). And most homesteading families built multi-room houses as soon as they were able. Multi-room homes were common in urban areas by mid-Century and even tenements in the cities often had divided areas for sleeping. On Wagon Trains to come west, it was pretty typical that parents and young children slept in space left in the wagon for the purpose and older children slept out on the ground--again affording a bit of privacy to couples. The notion that sex was a public activity until very recently is not very accurate. As is even demonstrated here, having infants and toddlers in parents' room or sleeping area has always been common, but in Western culture, older children have been in separated spaces for much more than a single century even when not the kinds of separate rooms we think of today.

[Lady Elaine]

Oh, I hate, hate, hate how these stupid fundie men make these ignorant generalizations about men and how "all" men think. It's so insulting to men. "Men need sex to make vacation fun!" Bullshit. If a man is so horny that he can't enjoy a week long vacation with kids without sex, he has some serious problems. My husband would rather die than have sex with the child in the room. (Not all men are the same!! I want to scream it from the rooftops.) We make it through vacation just fine and everybody seems to have a good time. There are more things to enjoy in life besides sex. Unless you're a fundamentalist male, I guess.

-- Also don't you think it's strange that among fundie men there's no mention of women enjoying sex? I guess they think women don't enjoy sex. Maybe their women don't. I assume their "I'm in charge, do it my way, serve me, I need this all the time no matter what" mentality might have something to do with that.

[salex]

Um, yes, actually many/most people in the West have only had privacy in about the last 100 years. In 1913, it would have been completely normal for many people to all sleep in one to two rooms be it a farm house or an apt. And throughout the world today the majority of people do not have privacy. Being discreet and privacy are not the same thing. And just because something squicks you out and is not normal for our society does not mean it is abuse.

Um, look back at all the victorian and earlier houses and see the layout. I was raised in a house built in 1902 that had 6 bedrooms which while a little larger than many homes built at that time, was not an anomaly. Most of the old houses of that era that I'm familiar with had multiple bedrooms often on multiple levels. Even the original homestead house from 50-75 years before that, that we were using as a shed by the time I was a kid had a loft/attic seperate from the rest of the house.

[singsingsing]

Um, yes, actually many/most people in the West have only had privacy in about the last 100 years. In 1913, it would have been completely normal for many people to all sleep in one to two rooms be it a farm house or an apt. And throughout the world today the majority of people do not have privacy. Being discreet and privacy are not the same thing. And just because something squicks you out and is not normal for our society does not mean it is abuse.

First of all, I was not one of the people who said it was 'abuse'.

Secondly, I don't know where you're getting your information. I'm not disputing that SOME people a hundred years ago all slept in the same room, but it was not the norm. I believe it mainly would have been the poorest people crowded into apartments in large cities. None of my great-grandparents slept in the same room as their parents, nor my great-great-grandparents, nor my great-great-great-grandparents - they were not well-off, either. My great-great-great-grandmother managed to hide her pregnancy and give birth alone in her own room in the house she shared with her family, in a farming/fishing community in 1880, so maybe she had too much privacy?

[medievalist1980]

First of all, I was not one of the people who said it was 'abuse'.

Secondly, I don't know where you're getting your information. I'm not disputing that SOME people a hundred years ago all slept in the same room, but it was not the norm. I believe it mainly would have been the poorest people crowded into apartments in large cities. None of my great-grandparents slept in the same room as their parents, nor my great-great-grandparents, nor my great-great-great-grandparents - they were not well-off, either. My great-great-great-grandmother managed to hide her pregnancy and give birth alone in her own room in the house she shared with her family, in a farming/fishing community in 1880, so maybe she had too much privacy?

I was responding in a chain discussing the idea that having sex in a room with your kids is abuse, so I never said you said it, I just said it isn't abuse.

And where did your great-greats live? And how many were they? And how do you know that they didn't share rooms? And I stand by my statement that most would have lived that way. Until the 1930s, it was common, even if you put most of the kids in one room, to keep the babies/little ones with the parents.

Steven Mintz and Susan Kellogg, Domestic Revolutions: A Social History of American Family Life

[louisa05]

No one has disputed that babies and toddlers are often in the same room as parents. That is still true. Just talked to one of my best friends on the phone last night and she was happy to have finally got the crib together to move 3 mth old number seven out of her room. Every one of her babies (twins twice) slept in their parents' bedroom for 2-3 months. Another friend just moved her two year old to her own room. No one disputed that and it has practically been universally agreed here that sleeping babies and toddlers are a different thing and no harm is done if they are in the room when parents have sex. But there was no indication in Lori's post that she or those who agreed with her were talking exclusively about infants and toddlers. And most people (other than a few teen mothers I have known) are well aware that babies and toddlers grow into children and then teenagers so to speak generally about kids on family vacation means at some point we are talking about vacationing with 10, 11, and 16 year olds and so on.

[Anise]

I don't understand the mindset that if people did it throughout history, it is not abusive.

Presumably, there is a long history if corporeal punishment and harsh coming of age rituals and in some societies, ritualized rape. Doesn't mean that they are necessarily appropriate in this society.

Also, I looked it up, and yes, deliberately exposing children to sex acts is considered sexual abuse: http://www.americanhumane.org/children/ ... abuse.html

[Evilbad]

Define exposing. Because you seem to think the parents are having their very own sexy party in the hotel room, with the kids watching, FFS.

[keen23]

It's consent and lack thereof. By having someone in the room with you while you are having sex, you are involving that person in your sex act, even if they are not aware of it. It's like taking a walk in a public park and finding people having sex in the middle of a field or people having sex in a bathroom in a plane. It's consensual for the people involved in the act, but there is no consent from anyone who just happens upon them.

[Evilbad]

I think you are jumping to conclusions and it is not abuse to have sex with a sleeping child in the room. The kid is asleep and doesn't know what's going on. By your logic, having sex anywhere in my own house, and my kid just happens to wake up and hear is also abuse. We aren't deliberately involving a child in our sex act and its gross that you'd stretch to that conclusion.

[FreeJosie]

Lori Alexander is a Monster and her husband's sex preferences? TMI!

I am the oldest of five kids, and my parents never, ever had sex with ANY of us in the room. Yet somehow they managed to produce five kids, so they worked it out. :lol:

[OkToBeTakei]

Well in the UK the traditional Victorian houses commonly had 2 bedrooms and 3 generations in them. Before that 2 rooms. In Glasgow in which until this century tenement flats had a nook in the kitchen and maybe one other room right up until the 50's. Tribal Africa? Travelling families? I'm sure some can add to the list.

I think some sense is required here. Abuse? Sure if you line your kids up at the end of the bed with some popcorn and deliberately cavort all Kama Sutra style on top of the bed giving it big licks.

A quiet wee doing under the covers? If that is abuse then most people would not be born. What exactly about a modern house especially with some construction styles compared to say a traditional build provides privacy anyway? Never heard a squeaky bed next door in a hotel? Worse explain to your child the couple next door like to pray LOUDLY!!

Sex is normal and natural and just like taking a poo generally not a spectator sport for anybody (unless that's your thing) least of all kids. So everybody shouting abuse makes sure they are in a soundproofed room with a lock to jiggy jiggy? IF my child ever happened to walk in on me and her Dad I'm pretty sure I could come up with some outrageous itchy bum, massage story if we were in full on porn mode. Covertly under the covers is quite fun when trying not to move or make a noise. As I said my kid sleeps like the living dead and if that was not the case my experience would reflect that.

I certainly don't want to think that two parents showing their love for each other and being inadvertently caught as abuse. That gives the wrong message about sex. Sure they are going to be embarrassed when and if they remember as a teenager but as an adult now that one time I heard my folks getting on down in the next hotel room when I was 14 makes me smile now they are in their 80's. Oldies still had it going on.

[FreeJosie]

I just can't imagine having sex while my 3 year old sleeps in the next bed over. To me, it's just wrong on so many levels. When he was an infant or toddler, sure, it happened quite a few times because he was sleeping in the bassinet beside me. However, as another poster already mentioned, I spent most of the encounter just trying to speed things up and get it over with because it felt weird.

We haven't gone on vacation with our son in a few years, other than a few weekend long camping trips. Our old trailer was 2 separate rooms so we felt free to be intimate. However, we've since downsized and we all sleep in the same open space. We've managed to keep our hands to ourself out of respect for our child.

That's not to say we don't get all kinds of freaky when we're away without him. Just not when he's around.

Special circumstances aside (temporary living arrangements, etc) I don't see what the big deal is if you have to wait a few days to get your rocks off. If my hubby needed to get off that badly, I'd send him to the bathroom and tell him to choose a hand.

ITA with this. I couldn't even get into the mood knowing that my 11 year old was sleeping in the same room.

[OkToBeTakei]

It's consent and lack thereof. By having someone in the room with you while you are having sex, you are involving that person in your sex act, even if they are not aware of it. It's like taking a walk in a public park and finding people having sex in the middle of a field or people having sex in a bathroom in a plane. It's consensual for the people involved in the act, but there is no consent from anyone who just happens upon them.

:lol:

Yes I felt part of a steamy windowed car one night up a dark road. The abusers the.

By having someone in the room with you while you are having sex, you are involving that person in your sex act, even if they are not aware of it.

Damn I had sex when I was pregnant. That makes me Lucifer incarnate by your reckoning.

[keen23]

:lol:

Yes I felt part of a steamy windowed car one night up a dark road. The abusers the.

Damn I had sex when I was pregnant. That makes me Lucifer incarnate by your reckoning.

Now I can't decide if I'm elitist or a prude. But, it doesn't bother me so much if people are having sex in a room with a child present of an age who still lacks self awareness- say under 18 months. But, I'm incredibly bothered by the thought of people having sex in a room with a child present over the age of 18 months, even if they are asleep.

[Cheetah]

(From the comments of the original post),

"And to be perfectly honest, I would have a MISERABLE vacation without sex. Grumpy, sad, and I can’t imagine being around all those other females, who are often skimply dressed without being with my wife and having any kind of victory with my thoughtlife."

This is so incredibly creepy!!!!

Easy solution: spring for a 2nd bedroom in the motel (adjoining...), or rent a 2 bedroom condo. Costs more but if your sex life is that important, seems like a priority purchase.

[OkToBeTakei]

Now I can't decide if I'm elitist or a prude. But, it doesn't bother me so much if people are having sex in a room with a child present of an age who still lacks self awareness- say under 18 months. But, I'm incredibly bothered by the thought of people having sex in a room with a child present over the age of 18 months, even if they are asleep.

Different strokes for different folks maybe.

I think we are putting adult perspectives on a child's view who may IF they wake up see a lumpy duvet moving. A child a lot older than 18mths is not going to think OH MY GOD my Dad is putting his PENIS in my Mum's VAGINA! Child will probs think..oh there's a lumpy duvet moving.

[Koala]

Dear god in heaven these people are disgusting:

I don't think any wife should ever tell her husband that he's a pig for wanting sex on vacation. My hubby and I are strict when we're on vacation that the things we say to do at home we should do when on vacation. This means that our sex lives won't change just because the kids are in the room. My hubby will want sex sometimes more than one or two times in one night and we are always direct with our two girls and son that it is mommy and daddy's time and we should not stop it just because we're on vacation. Sometimes they wake up I think but what my hubby says goes and it has worked for us so far.

I'm very curious...what happens when your kids wake up and see you? Do you just continue on? I can't even imagine.

My husband has had to tell them to go back to sleep when they wake up and cry or say our names. they have asked questions the next day sometimes but my hubby tells them it is mommy and daddy's business and that it is God's will for our family.what he says goes and we followw his leadership just like the Bible says we should do. the parent's will is more important than a childs will because the parents will is led by God especially the father's.

They should both be arrested. I truly believe that and I don't give a shit what anyone here says about life 200 years ago. That is child abuse plain and simple.

[ILoveJellybeans]

That is awful and creepy. Yeah, sure, have sex with your 6 month old sleeping in a crib on the other side of the room......but when your 7 year old wakes up you just tell them to go to sleep then carry on fucking and tell them in the morning that its none of their business??? Thats disgusting.

Isnt part of being a parent putting your childs needs first? Fundies say people who choose not to have kids are selfish, but they freely say that their children's needs are not important at all compared to their own. That is the definition of selfish.

[OkToBeTakei]

That is awful and creepy. Yeah, sure, have sex with your 6 month old sleeping in a crib on the other side of the room......but when your 7 year old wakes up you just tell them to go to sleep then carry on fucking and tell them in the morning that its none of their business??? Thats disgusting.

Isnt part of being a parent putting your childs needs first? Fundies say people who choose not to have kids are selfish, but they freely say that their children's needs are not important at all compared to their own. That is the definition of selfish.

Although the premise itself as discussed above does not creep me out. THAT is totally creepsville. But hey when are Lori and Ken not creepy. They make most ordinary living sound like porn.

[Pathfinder]

What are the legalities of exposing your sexual acts to minor children who are not your own? If my daughter had gone camping with said fundie family whose dictator dad had to have his allotted quota of sex and they woke my daughter up, exposing her to their blessed event, is that a legal infraction?

[MajorMajor]

Although the premise itself as discussed above does not creep me out. THAT is totally creepsville. But hey when are Lori and Ken not creepy. They make most ordinary living sound like porn.

I agree. That is beyond fucked up (no pun intended).

[EmmieJ]

I notice that Lori (and maybe some other fundies) keep saying "why should we put stress on our marriage by not having sex?

I'd suggest if abstaining from sex for a short period of time puts stress on your marriage, you don't have a very good marriage to begin with. There are a multitude of reasons to abstain and if your husband can't understand that and be respectful of them, why would you want him as a husband in the first place?

A few years ago, I was "out of commission" for many months, including an extended hospital stay. Not once did my husband say anything about sex during that entire time. Somehow, he managed to live and our marriage did not implode ;)

Exactly. Lori is so caught up in showing her readers what a "godly" woman she is; how she always submits to her husband's every whim and wish; that she either doesn't realize or doesn't care that she is making her husband look like the loser of the century.

If I were even remotely considering some sort of conservative religious lifestyle, I am pretty sure this would chase me off. Fundy men seem to me to be quite lacking in self-control, a trait I neither respect nor desire in a man. I would prefer an adult male who knows there is a time and place for certain things, and is man enough to be able to control his sexual urges. He's not some 15-year old who just discovered "hey it feels good when I rub here." I also prefer a life partner who is considerate, loving, and mature, not some sex addict who cannot go without sex even one single day, children be damned.

Why does she think sharing this information should elicit positive responses? Neither she nor her husband come off looking anything but creepy.