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Alpha males? Beta males?


YPestis

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In 11 years they made no reasonable dramatic effort to escape? They endured a forced abortion and a homebirth (not unlike Jaycee Dugard) and still no collaborative plan they could come up with was effective for 11 years until one day Ariel left the door open? None of these girls were malnourished, and they could stand to lose some weight.

Because that's so fucking important after having been imprisoned for 11 years. For fucks sake. :angry-banghead:

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According to Rollo, one of the biggest figures in the manosphere, Ariel Castro was an alpha for the 11 years he kept his captives, except towards the end where he got too "comfortable" and "sloppy."

therationalmale [dot] com/2013/08/05/dominance/

Is this guy married? Has he ever been married or in a long-term relationship?

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Is this guy married? Has he ever been married or in a long-term relationship?

More to the point, does the SOB have a basement? Should someone search his house?

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Is this guy married? Has he ever been married or in a long-term relationship?

Supposedly married. He talks about his wife sometimes on the blog.

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I have this bizarre desire to hang out somewhere with pick up artists, so if they try to proposition me I can tell them to GTF away from me. It probably wouldn't make them think, though. I'd just be an evil feminist who wants to control and devalue men and their sexuality.

They would post about you on their pitiful forums and tell each other that you're just a clingy Betawoman who is to insecure to enjoy the attention real Alphas give her, and would be a bad choice for a mate anyway.

So telling them off would be a one-time entertainment.

I wonder if I encountered a PUA a few years ago without knowing it at the time. It was summer and I was out shopping in Frankfurt, wearing a short skirt and heels. A man (not "Alpha" looking at all, just your ordinary jeans-and-tshirt-guy who had a few calories stored around his waist) approached me while I was browsing in a shop and told me that I looked very nice, and I thanked him, but then he continued telling me he was studying fashion design and nobody would wear tights any more, I should better leave them off! I lost no time to tell him I did not care about his opinion or fashion and that I expected him to distance him from myself immediately or I'd call security on him.

Thinking it over today, it looks like a badly applied "bait and switch" tactic or however they call that, starting with a compliment to make the woman interested, then insult her, because their theory is that an insulted woman will cling to the insulter, trying to prove he's wrong.

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I think I met a PUA on the train once. He sat across from me and insulted my hair (to be fair, it was not a Good Hair day, but not every day can be) for about 30 minutes. After a while he started telling me about how hard his childhood was. There was just something so 'off' about the way he talked and acted.

I haven't thought about the incident much since it happened, but I do wonder if this was a guy who read 'manosphere' blogs, or just regular PUA material, or if that was just the way he was. He did talk about how humans are just animals, so we might as well just act like them. Seems a very manospherian thing to say. He also sent me an article about himself, which apparently was supposed to present him in a positive light, but instead made him seem like an utter asshole. :lol:

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Does this stuff actually work on any women? At all? I guess I could kind of see it happening if the woman in question was SUPER insecure or something, but otherwise it's just baffling. Why would I want to prove myself to some loser who thinks it's okay to insult a total stranger? Reading about these guys is almost like watching aliens trying to be human.

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My guess it it might sometimes work on a very specific subset of women: Very young, insecure, into everything that's "cool & stylish" and perhaps also not well-educated. This seems to be the type of women much of the original PUA-material deals with (picking up women in bars, discos and similar locations). By making them think they're acting uncool if they're refusing the guy using such tactics, it could lea to them feeling pressured to play along in order to be cool.

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A little article about male primate mating behaviours:

-snip-

I was JUST covering primate mating behaviour in one of my uni courses. According to my textbook it's total bullshit that only alpha males successfully mate. Studies show that females will absolutely mate with lower ranking males who they have 'friendships' with, and often they are actually successful in passing on their genes in groups with multiple males. It's on the down low, but they definitely do it. 'Alpha males' don't even exist within all primate social groups, and there are several different kinds of groups, including those with multiple males and those where females are in fact in charge. Macaques are the best example of matriline-dominant primates, where the social hierarchy is determined by the familial relationships to the matriarch.

Not to mention Bonobos, who fuck tons of partners of all ages and 'ranks' (and genders) for funsies just like we do.

The more research that goes into primates - and other animals, including birds - the more the concept of alphas are debunked.

The whole alpha concept is based on incorrect animal behavioral science, essentially.

For ages people thought the bird that sits highest in the tree is the 'alpha', but it's now known that the bird that sits the highest up or flies at the head of the flock is simply the one with the best senses.

ETA: Ariel, it's awesome to see another anthropology major here!

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According to Rollo, one of the biggest figures in the manosphere, Ariel Castro was an alpha for the 11 years he kept his captives, except towards the end where he got too "comfortable" and "sloppy."

therationalmale [dot] com/2013/08/05/dominance/

I guess nothing should surprise me, but this does. Hasn't he seen the pictures of their basement? The windows were boarded up, the ceiling was peeling and caving in at spots. The carpet was foul. These women were forced to live in a dank basement without windows for more than decade. Occasional trips outside must have been the highlights of their lives. Sure, the women clearly made an attempt to keep their surroundings cheerful and neat, but the overall impression was nightmarish.

And that doesn't even take into account the chains attached to the floor and wall, the complicated alarm system on the basement door or the portable toilet they had to use.

This man is out of his fracking mind if he seriously thinks sex under those conditions was ever truly consensual.

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My guess it it might sometimes work on a very specific subset of women: Very young, insecure, into everything that's "cool & stylish" and perhaps also not well-educated. This seems to be the type of women much of the original PUA-material deals with (picking up women in bars, discos and similar locations). By making them think they're acting uncool if they're refusing the guy using such tactics, it could lea to them feeling pressured to play along in order to be cool.

A lot of it seems to be based on the assumption that the old sexual contract is still mainstream - so they're assuming that a woman is desperate to secure a man, any man, because she needs income and a provider, and will go to any lengths to flatter or "catch" the man in order to get it. So the PUA comes into the situation assuming that he has the power in the relationship, he has the upper hand in any negotiation.

And as you say, if you go to bars and discos and hit on insecure people, you can probably find some people who maybe are also thinking that's their only options.

This image of the old sexual contract is the same reason they give for why they should expect physical perfection in a woman but not have to reciprocate by keeping in shape themselves - women want a provider, and men want sex. A man will "suffer" and "go straight and narrow," stay with one wife and work a job every day, AS LONG AS she puts out at night. Otherwise, he will stray, and it's the woman's responsibility to ensure he doesn't stray, or he'll leave her and it's her fault.

And plenty of the men's rights types will come right out and say that marriage (or any relationship, really) is just prostitution. They hate on supposed "gold-diggers" while at the same time boldly stating that such "gold-digging" is the natural state of affairs.

(pardon me, needed to go wash my hands after that...)

In 2013 though plenty of women will just look at such a guy as if he has a third eye, because who needs him? We earn our own money and have our own careers and social networks. We don't need to be "smoking hot" for the same reason he's allowed to grow his businessman's paunch.

So they get told off a few times (or worse yet manage to marry and then eventually end up divorcing when the wife wants an actual life) and that becomes "oh all American women are fat feminist harpies who don't know how to treat a man."

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This man is out of his fracking mind if he seriously thinks sex under those conditions was ever truly consensual.

They really really want to believe. It's the fantasy, that there are women who truly only want to have sex with them, and nothing else, and thinking of nothing else, that it's their "natural state" and so on.

I have not seen this guy's basement. I did see pics of the Fritzl basement in Austria, which looks almost cheery... IF it were just some poor but FREE family NORMALLY living in an illegal (but so cheap!) basement apartment for a while.

Somehow last week though I found myself reading about that case again and heard the most horrifying thing - everyone knows there were many many doors weighing a few hundred pounds each between the basement apartment and the outside, but... apparently the kidnapper would regularly threaten to just abandon them there, in the dark, forever, if they don't do what he wants. No one would ever find them. So of course they "consent." It's the stuff of nightmares. So yeah, cute bathroom accessories doesn't quite make that ok.

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This man is out of his fracking mind if he seriously thinks sex under those conditions was ever truly consensual.

Well of course it was consensual, because, y'know, Fifty Shades of Grey and all... :roll:

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They would post about you on their pitiful forums and tell each other that you're just a clingy Betawoman who is to insecure to enjoy the attention real Alphas give her, and would be a bad choice for a mate anyway.

So telling them off would be a one-time entertainment.

I wonder if I encountered a PUA a few years ago without knowing it at the time. It was summer and I was out shopping in Frankfurt, wearing a short skirt and heels. A man (not "Alpha" looking at all, just your ordinary jeans-and-tshirt-guy who had a few calories stored around his waist) approached me while I was browsing in a shop and told me that I looked very nice, and I thanked him, but then he continued telling me he was studying fashion design and nobody would wear tights any more, I should better leave them off! I lost no time to tell him I did not care about his opinion or fashion and that I expected him to distance him from myself immediately or I'd call security on him.

Thinking it over today, it looks like a badly applied "bait and switch" tactic or however they call that, starting with a compliment to make the woman interested, then insult her, because their theory is that an insulted woman will cling to the insulter, trying to prove he's wrong.

Negging!

pickup_artist.png

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I've been mainlining Teen Wolf over the past week plus, so Alpha/Beta has alllll these connotations for me now, mainly revolving around hot hot hot guys who run around shirtless and sometimes naked, and who clearly want to have sex with each other. Which I am more than fine with. MRAs-- that is the way to get the ladies to look at you and like what they see.

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Thanks Talitha! In a bizarre way, that comic strip is freaking hilarious.

But someone tell me quickly how a nagging wife/girlfriend is bad, but a negging man is just wonderful and all manly? The only difference I see is one letter.

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I've been mainlining Teen Wolf over the past week plus, so Alpha/Beta has alllll these connotations for me now, mainly revolving around hot hot hot guys who run around shirtless and sometimes naked, and who clearly want to have sex with each other. Which I am more than fine with. MRAs-- that is the way to get the ladies to look at you and like what they see.

Ah, Teen Wolf. One of my favourite shows (mostly for the reasons you mentioned above). Of course, it also shows females as alphas. Blasphemy!

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Ah, Teen Wolf. One of my favourite shows (mostly for the reasons you mentioned above). Of course, it also shows females as alphas. Blasphemy!

Not to mention the matriarchal werewolf hunters. "We train our boys to be soldiers. We train our girls to be leaders." :clap:

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