US rate of virgin brides/grooms

[Phukktifano]

I do kinda of wonder if this correlates to something some of my fundie friends told me a few months ago. Apparently if they married the first/only person they slept with they considered themselves as having waited until marriage even if the "event" happened quite a while before the wedding. Otherwise those numbers seem pretty high.

[Rescinded and Mended]

I have two good friends who are interested in waiting for sex until marriage. First friend is college-educated, young, and is able to support herself by working two or ore jobs at any given time even while going to school. She's very devout, and feels that a decent guy will wait if he truly loves her.

Second friend has issues with committing to relationships. Her issues arise from her need for control - she puts herself on a pedestal and doesn't want to share her life with anyone else. A virgin in her late twenties, she keeps making excuses as to why she can't have a relationship, but claims she badly wants one. Even she admits she needs more therapy to get to the heart of the matter.

The first friend strikes me as more well-adjusted than the second one, but overall, the virginity issue has been causing them both some issues. Both women are educated and attractive, but most of the guys they meet either don't want to wait around for marriage before doing the deed, or the men decide it's a good idea because it gives them an excuse to trot out the 'patriarchy' card and insist on obedience in the relationship.

I respect the decision of both women to wait for sex until marriage, but just from what I've seen personally, it can be problematic for the overall health of a relationship.

[TheJewAmongUs]

I wonder if they're only asking about first marriages.

[Rachel333]

I've known a whole bunch of people who say they waited until marriage so the number doesn't seem off to me, but this thread makes me wonder how many of my peers who say they're waiting actually do.

[Ariel]

OK, I'm in my 40s and do not know one single woman who was a virgin on her wedding night. These women range from Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Jewish (non haredi), Muslims, Hindus, and could-not-be-bothered-with-the-God-thing. A lot of us grew up with "good girls wait", except we didn't. :shifty-kitty:

I was raised with "Good girls may finish last, but they finish the best." :?

[polecat]

I do kinda of wonder if this correlates to something some of my fundie friends told me a few months ago. Apparently if they married the first/only person they slept with they considered themselves as having waited until marriage even if the "event" happened quite a while before the wedding. Otherwise those numbers seem pretty high.

If that's the case, then my parents were virgins when they got married, and my sister just happened to be born four months early. :pink-shock:

[MissA]

I know exactly one couple who I am pretty sure were virgins when they married. They were devout Mormons and got hitched right after HS. I just recently friended her on facebook about 15-16 years after we graduated, and shortly after I did that they went public with their blog about how they are dealing with his "same-sex attraction." So, yeah, ouch. And hardly the best endorsement for premarital celibacy.

I'm pretty sure everybody else I know had had sex, at least with the person that they married... though I think a fair number of them only have ever had sex with that one person. That figure might actually be up around 20%. But the chaste-until-marriage is a lot rarer in my social circles.

[mlady]

Sounds likely to me. For those who embrace young marriage it's really not that hard to wait to have sex, hormones or not. Putting marriage off until you are older decreases the odds people will remain virgins except for the real devoutly religious, those with few opportunities, and those with low sex drives.

I learned long ago that the stories of sexual conquests are often figments of peoples imagination anyway :).

[Rescinded and Mended]

Sounds likely to me. For those who embrace young marriage it's really not that hard to wait to have sex, hormones or not. Putting marriage off until you are older decreases the odds people will remain virgins except for the real devoutly religious, those with few opportunities, and those with low sex drives.I learned long ago that the stories of sexual conquests are often figments of peoples imagination anyway :).

This is exactly right, and I actually pointed this out to the second friend in my last post. She is hoping for a virgin man to fall in love with. Her odds of getting that are far less likely the older she gets, with the exceptions being the things you listed.

[Arete]

If that's the case, then my parents were virgins when they got married, and my sister just happened to be born four months early. :pink-shock:

Modern Greek culture has tons of jokes that revolve around "premature" births. Those babies are refered to as eptamynitiko-"7 monthers" :lol:

[Rachel333]

My parents lived in a strict Muslim country in the developing world for a while, and locals there insisted that in their ethnic group babies only had a 6 month gestation period. I've read that even Puritan couples often had their first baby a few months after marriage, so I think it's a pretty universal phenomenon.

[bananacat]

My parents lived in a strict Muslim country in the developing world for a while, and locals there insisted that in their ethnic group babies only had a 6 month gestation period. I've read that even Puritan couples often had their first baby a few months after marriage, so I think it's a pretty universal phenomenon.

This sort of sounds like an urban legend to make thirld-world people look like backwards uneducated hicks. Can you name the specific country? If true, this is almost certainly a case of misunderstanding or using different definitions. This culture probably considers the start of pregnancy after the first trimester when the risk of miscarriage is greatly reduced. People in poor places aren't generally as stupid as we like to view them, and it's common for different cultures to define time periods differently.

[Rachel333]

This sort of sounds like an urban legend to make thirld-world people look like backwards uneducated hicks. Can you name the specific country? If true, this is almost certainly a case of misunderstanding or using different definitions. This culture probably considers the start of pregnancy after the first trimester when the risk of miscarriage is greatly reduced. People in poor places aren't generally as stupid as we like to view them, and it's common for different cultures to define time periods differently.

Why would that mean they're stupid? I doubt they actually believed that; I'm sure they know how reproduction works as well as anyone else. I don't see it as any different than the WASPs who claim that their healthy 9lb newborns were premature. I know my parents didn't think the people were stupid, that was just an anecdote they found amusing. They actually tend to be pretty careful about not letting people think cultural differences = stupidity (My dad tells a story about when he kind of laughed at them for calling dolphins fish until he realized that "fish" in their language doesn't necessarily have the same definitions as "fish" in English and he was really the one being ignorant.). And not that it's a big deal, but my dad is also the one who taught me not to use "third-world" anymore, as these days it's considered insensitive or at least very out-dated.

Edit: Sorry, you do have a point in that, while I do believe the story is true and I don't think anyone meant it to show that poor people are stupid, a lot of these kinds of thing do end up as a "lol, furrners are dumb" type of story. I don't know how they view the start of pregnancy, which would be interesting to look into. I do know that this is a country where pre- and extra-marital sex is illegal but also very commonplace and having babies outside of marriage has a very heavy stigma.

[Dinaberries]

I remember reading somewhere that only 1% of Americans are piv virgins when they get married. Personally, even though I grew up going to church, I only know one couple where either party (the woman was) was a virgin on their wedding night. They were a conservative Mormon couple.

I have met a few Australians who saved themselves for marriage, but that could be because my husband grew up in the Bible belt of sydney. I met all of these people through my husband.

Also, OP, why does your partner think it's sad?

[Rescinded and Mended]

Blah, why would that even mean they're stupid? I doubt they actually believed that; I'm sure they know how reproduction works as well as anyone else. I don't see it as any different than the WASPs who claim that their healthy 9lb newborns were premature. I know my parents didn't think the people were stupid, that was just an anecdote they found amusing. They actually tend to be pretty careful about not letting people think cultural differences = stupidity (My dad tells a story about when he kind of laughed at them for calling dolphins fish until he realized that "fish" in their language doesn't necessarily have the same definitions as "fish" in English and he was really the one being ignorant.). And not that it's a big deal, but my dad is also the one who taught me not to use "third-world" anymore, as these days it's considered insensitive or at least very out-dated.

Edit: Sorry, you do have a point in that, while I do believe the story is true and I don't think anyone meant it to show that poor people are stupid, a lot of these kinds of thing do end up as a "lol, furrners are dumb" type of story. I don't know how they view the start of pregnancy, which would be interesting to look into. I do know that this is a country where pre- and extra-marital sex is illegal but also very commonplace and having babies outside of marriage has a very heavy stigma.

This may just be me, but I'm not really a fan of calling something an urban legend as a defense against any claim that appears to have fantastic elements. In any debate or discussion, the burden of proof is on the claimant to either produce or refute a source. Sometimes, all that can be done to reinforce that claim is simply to declare it a personal anecdote, but by calling any statement an urban legend, you're essentially making a sweeping generalization that something can't be true simply because it sounds outlandish. By its very nature, the term negates discussion.

Beyond the bolded, however, I completely agree.

[bananacat]

I wasn't calling it an urban legend because it has fantastic elements. I called it an urban legend because it plays into current stereotypes while not actually giving any specific, identifying details and repeats similar claims that other urban legends have made.

Weird things happen all the time and I will believe them when presented in a certain way, but urban legends follow a pattern and this one fit it very well before the clarification was made.

[Rachel333]

Hey, if I know something is an urban legend I have no problem identifying it as such (like L-a; I hate that one and I see it so much).

As far as cultural issues go, this made me think of the sugar packet story: http://www.snopes.com/travel/foreign/cultural.asp. It seems very plausible and if it actually happened would in no way mean that the person is stupid, just that they're not familiar with our culture. Yet people tell it in a "haha, can you believe they wouldn't know that" kind of way. So perhaps even if stories like these are true it might be prudent not to tell them anyway?

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

I have met a few Australians who saved themselves for marriage, but that could be because my husband grew up in the Bible belt of sydney. I met all of these people through my husband.

Also, OP, why does your partner think it's sad?

Sydney has a Bible Belt? It's sure not the Eastern Suburbs or Inner West...or North Shore or Western suburbs. I am intrigued...tell me more...

[Dinaberries]

Sydney has a Bible Belt? It's sure not the Eastern Suburbs or Inner West...or North Shore or Western suburbs. I am intrigued...tell me more...

The Hills district.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

The Hills district.

Like Hillsong? I have never been there have only heard rumours of these mythical religious suburbs. Now I know they do exist. Luckily I have no need to visit. Although it might be interesting for fundie spotting?

I heard some parts of the Shires are religious, although the 2 nurses I know from the shires are 1) gay & a lapsed Catholic 2) hard line labor supporting atheist.

[RosyDaisy]

My parents lived in a strict Muslim country in the developing world for a while, and locals there insisted that in their ethnic group babies only had a 6 month gestation period. I've read that even Puritan couples often had their first baby a few months after marriage, so I think it's a pretty universal phenomenon.

In the case of Puritans and others living during the colonial period (and later time frames for remote rural areas, not every settlement had a preacher. All that was needed is a young man to talk to a young woman's father. If he approved of the union, that was all that was needed, and they were considered married. The marriage would be solemnized by the circuit preacher when he made the rounds. Even then it probably wasn't a wedding ceremony, just a blessing of the union during church service. By that time there was probably already a bun in the oven. This is per my own genealogical research.

[Artemis]

Pregnancy is about six months from first hints of quickening. Other than cessation of menses, which could happen because of poor nutrition, early pregnancy might have been harder to confirm historically. I know there are signs which are obvious once you've been pregnant, such as breast enlargement, sleepiness, constipation etc, but quickening was the most reliable sign that a pregnancy has 'taken'.

[Dinaberries]

Like Hillsong? I have never been there have only heard rumours of these mythical religious suburbs. Now I know they do exist. Luckily I have no need to visit. Although it might be interesting for fundie spotting?

I heard some parts of the Shires are religious, although the 2 nurses I know from the shires are 1) gay & a lapsed Catholic 2) hard line labor supporting atheist.

Yes, Hillsong is in the hills. I think it's in bella vista. To be fair, it's nothing like many parts of the United States, where Christianity is inescapable, but the hills is home to the highest percentage of evangelical Christians in sydney (and I think in Australia). Honestly I've come across more in your face evangelism there than in my personal experience in the states. The sydney mormon temple is also there and I've heard rumors that there is or was a children of god presence in the hills. I don't think you'd have any interesting fundie watching there, though. Their fundies look like regular people.

I'm not sure about the shire. I've only known a few people from the shire and they didn't seem religious. However, I think there are lots of people in the shire who have very conservative political views, so there may be a large number of conservative Christians that I'm unaware of. I've only ever driven through the shire and never actually spent time there.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

I used to do research for a reproductive rights org on how different religions view contraception and abortion. I found that most Muslim theologians and clerics consider the fetus to be "alive" at quickening. Apart from arguments for the allowability of termination (which are still only really used by the more liberal clerics), I think that this marker may also help women/families to deal with early miscarriage, at least in theory. Of course the woman is still considered pregnant before quickening, but that may explain the 6-month thing.