Wives should walk into danger, if husband commands it

[Hisey]

The fanatics who write to Sunshine Mary really have me speechless this time.

SSM wrote that her husband tried to get her to stick her head through the sunroof while he was driving but she refused.

HHG wanted me to stand up with my head through the sun roof while driving across the windy Mackinac Bridge at 50 MPH to get a better photo. Sorry, honey, nothing doing. It was all I could do not to lose my lunch going across; you’re really high up and it’s a five-mile bridge.

Someone pointed out (approvingly) that she was not submitting. She immediately began to split hairs.

[ssm]

Anyhow, it was one of the commenters who broke my heart. She has poor vision. Sometimes, when she is walking with her husband, he forgets about this and tells her to cross the road at a time she feels could be unsafe. She does not submit then (!), preferring to live instead. Afterwards, he is miffed that his headship has not been respected.

I know this was supposed to be a light hearted chat about a car event but the submission talk in the comments has me fascinated. What does and doesn’t count as a command? I would have thought that the act of trying to talk someone into something implies that a command has been made, refused and bargaining is now underway.

I too trust that my husband would never knowingly put me into danger but I also know that sometimes he does without knowing. When we are walking together for example, he will often forget in the moment that my peripheral vision isn’t that great and suddenly command that I cross the road with him. He makes the command on the assumption that I will be able to judge the speed that I need to cross because I can already see the oncoming traffic, but I often cannot. It is dangerous to walk blindly in front of cars and so I don’t submit to those requests and I can tell that we both feel slighted afterward, me because he has forgotten about my sight and put me in danger and him because his rank in the relationship is undermined.

Of course in these cases he isn’t putting me in danger on purpose but I often fear for women who after marriage find themselves with men who do command them to put themselves in danger purposefully as an abuse of power. I have seen enough of this world to understand that power can corrupt even the most unlikely people.

Then, some crazy writes in that she should obey him without question and have no fear because she should trust in God. That she should walk into traffic when she cannot see! And as for that silly abuse of power thingie she is worried about, she should just read the book of Job, that will solve everything. Here's an excerpt:

I’m going to assume you are a Christian. The command to submit to a husband is for Christian women and the manner in which we submit is “as unto the Lord.†Shall we walk on the water in faith when the Lord asks us to? Or will we fear and sink?

She adds that, though of course you should trust in God and all, you might also remind your husband of your vision problem and ask for a bit of help. No, that doesn't contradict her first statement, not at all.

[tenth muse]

That is terribly sad. Why is relationship ranking so important ? And also, surely God gave that woman the brains and sense to realise that it would be dangerous to cross at certain times. Why must that be disregarded just to prop up her husband's ego ?

[RachelB]

I thought SSM *and* her spouse would read Deuteronomy 6:16 / Matthew 4:7 / Luke 4:12 ("Thou shalt not tempt the Lord your God") as a command against doing careless or utterly dangerous things despite their better judgment and expecting God to bail them out. After all, it's clearly such an important text that Jesus used it in an argument with Satan.

But what do I know? Clearly her spouse outranks Jesus. :penguin-no:

[edited for missing words]

[Arete]

I thought SSM *and* her spouse would read Deuteronomy 6:16 / Matthew 4:7 / Luke 4:12 ("Thou shalt not tempt the Lord your God") as a command against doing careless or utterly dangerous things despite their better judgment and expecting God to bail them out. After all, it's clearly such an important text that Jesus used it in an argument with Satan.

But what do I know? Clearly her spouse outranks Jesus. :penguin-no:

[edited for missing words]

Preach it, RachelB!

[uber frau]

Most fundies need to read those words more often.

[Pam]

...But what do I know? Clearly her spouse outranks Jesus. :penguin-no:

...

Certainly he must, as her spouse obviously must be served, unlike Jesus who, by his own words, came to serve.

[snuggles911]

I'm glad that Sunshine Mary didn't risk her life to take a photo. I'm sure it was hard to say no, given how much she is always trying to please the Holy Hand Grenade.

By the way, some fJ's asked what he looked like in another post last week. In the post mentioned here, Sunshine included a photo of their car going through a carwash. If you click on it, you can get a somewhat fuzzy view of him. He seems normal looking. If he's really cheated with 30 women, he must have something other than his looks going for him.

[Marian the Librarian]

These people are insane.

[Burpies]

Maybe it's b/c I am in a heathen non-submission marriage, but I don't understand something. How insecure does a man have to be that he feels he needs to 'command' his wife to walk across the street??? I mean, when I'm with my husband we just walk across the street, either together or separately, no commands needed. Is this husband also commanding her to breathe, eat, and get dressed? Does he tell her which foot to lead with??? I just don't understand.

[Angharad Crewe]

I don't understand how women can give their husbands carte blanche to "command" them to do things that might jeopardize their safety. I thought fundies generally insisted the submission thing was all about letting the husband make major decisions about finances and where to live and such. At least SSM's delusional followers are honest in their beliefs that submission is about women being unthinking and obedient slaves.

OT: I think that HHG was either seeing prostitutes, or coercing women with major self-esteem issues. SSM has written that her husband is generally contemptuous of women, which unfortunately can be attractive to some women. I think that SSM has constructed a fantasy about HHG being utterly irresistible in order to convince herself that she is lucky that he chose her. Deep down, she knows that he is a total ass.

[rward]

I'm glad that Sunshine Mary didn't risk her life to take a photo. I'm sure it was hard to say no, given how much she is always trying to please the Holy Hand Grenade.

By the way, some fJ's asked what he looked like in another post last week. In the post mentioned here, Sunshine included a photo of their car going through a carwash. If you click on it, you can get a somewhat fuzzy view of him. He seems normal looking. If he's really cheated with 30 women, he must have something other than his looks going for him.

Does she mean "cheated" the way I would, as in physical contact, or does she mean "cheated" as Ray Comfort would define it, lusted after a woman in his heart? 30 women is a lot of women to cheat on your wife with, or even just have sex with, unless you're a rock star or are paying for it.

[fatcat]

Dammit, I can't enlarge the photo on her site!

And I second whoever said that I can't imagine anyone who is so insecure (or so... whatever) that he feels insulted when his wife doesn't cross the street on command :cray-cray: :angry-banghead:

(I am having way too much fun with these smilies...)

[Peppercorn]

The Mackinac Bridge? Sunshine Mary was in the U.P.? :::shudder:::

That would explain the weather. She has eclipsed our sun.

Not to be bloodthirsty, but cars have been known to flip off the bridge. High winds...act of God...just this once...?

[polecat]

I'm glad that Sunshine Mary didn't risk her life to take a photo. I'm sure it was hard to say no, given how much she is always trying to please the Holy Hand Grenade.

By the way, some fJ's asked what he looked like in another post last week. In the post mentioned here, Sunshine included a photo of their car going through a carwash. If you click on it, you can get a somewhat fuzzy view of him. He seems normal looking. If he's really cheated with 30 women, he must have something other than his looks going for him.

The red car at the back of the line? I don't see the driver at all, but I do see what looks like a larger, older blonde female in the passenger's seat. Unless that's him ...

shitstainmaryandthedragon.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/dsc02438.jpg

I don't know how to break up a link :? , so you'll need to change the "shitstainmary" to "sunshinemary."

[snuggles911]

Does she mean "cheated" the way I would, as in physical contact, or does she mean "cheated" as Ray Comfort would define it, lusted after a woman in his heart? 30 women is a lot of women to cheat on your wife with, or even just have sex with, unless you're a rock star or are paying for it.

She means cheat as in physical contact. He gave her a disease once that he'd gotten from one of his conquests at the hospital where he works and she had to take powerful antibiotics for two weeks. TMI, I know, but that's what she blogged a while back.

[cindyluvs24]

Order? Command? Yeah, if I wanted to take orders I'd join the military.

[YPestis]

Fundies will acknowledge that all men are flawed and comes nowhere close to the perfection that is God....and yet, they expect their wives to worship their husbands as God. I just don't understand that mindset. If men are flawed, then how could you expect any human being, even the wife, to show unquestioning obedience and faith like that? What if the husband makes a decision based on incorrect data? Or is flawed in his judgement? It just seems like Christianity is an excuse to subjugate women and stroke these insecure men's egos.

[ohnomoe]

I'm pretty sure the commenter was stirring them? There were definite undertones of submission being a bad idea and the story she told seemed to me to be an an example of why. The final paragraph acknowledging that power can corrupt husbands doesn't seem to fit with a fundie submissive wife.

Or maybe I'm just being hopeful?

[Syd+Marky]

I touched on this subject a bit in my very first posts on FJ(o-boy, was that an interesting experience, but I learned alot about how I word things,and the need to think things through before I express myself)-it was in a thread about conservative beliefs that we may hold.At that time, before I really understood what a submissive wife is, I considered myself to be, at times, submissive.As it turns out, the one and only way I practice any submission is when we are out in public, or anywhere else,where there could be sudden danger.In this situation it is best for *me*to, not only be aware of my surroundings, but aware of any command (yes,I said it)that may come from my husband, verbally,or otherwise.The point in my choosing to defer to my husband in these situations is to protect myself-and part of protecting myself, for me, is to allow my husband to protect me.See, I'm not only disabled in ways that may prevent me from fighting off an attacker, or getting out of the path of a stray bullet in time, I also live in a place where guns, gangs,hard-core drug use/dealing, and general danger is imminent everywhere.For inststance, a few years ago, DH&I were leaving a bar when my husband noticed something before it registered with me-so DH grabbed my arm and pulled me behind him, yelling "get down", which I did, just in time for the car full of gangsters that I hadn't noticed pulling in to open fire on the group of people who walked out of the bar just ahead of us.A man died that night, his girlfriend and brother were both shot and wounded.I trust my husband to do his damndest to protect me....I absolutely cannot imagine trusting a man who would put me in any kind of danger.I know many women wouldn't obey a command for their own safety, which is every persons right, IMO,and I understand that.I don't understand why a woman would blindly submit to a man who does not seem to have any concern for her safety and only cares about being HOH in every way.

[lemonhead]

Order? Command? Yeah, if I wanted to take orders I'd join the military.

This is interesting in light of the other thread about HHG being a nurse. If he feels ordered around all day at the hospital, and resents women in general, then SSM is a perfect target for his rage and contempt. And their joint anti-feminist, pro-complementarian brand of Christianity provides the perfect cover for his ass-hattines and her self-loathing.

[RosyDaisy]

Ummm...no they shouldn't. If they would take the time to read the whole Bible rather than cherry picking verses or listening to everything that comes out of the pulpit without question, they would realize what a Godly marriage is, and it ain't letting your husband boss you around like a master to a slave or putting you in dangerous situations.

Oh, and here's this little gem that I bet fundie women haven't even read:

The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights---1 Corinthians 7:3

Just thought I would throw that out there for lurking fundies. And, oops, I just cherry picked a verse myself. :doh:

[RosyDaisy]

Do these fundies not realize that women worshiping their husbands as God is a violation of the 3rd Commandment (You shall not have no other gods before me)? :naughty:

[RosyDaisy]

I touched on this subject a bit in my very first posts on FJ(o-boy, was that an interesting experience, but I learned alot about how I word things,and the need to think things through before I express myself)-it was in a thread about conservative beliefs that we may hold.At that time, before I really understood what a submissive wife is, I considered myself to be, at times, submissive.As it turns out, the one and only way I practice any submission is when we are out in public, or anywhere else,where there could be sudden danger.In this situation it is best for *me*to, not only be aware of my surroundings, but aware of any command (yes,I said it)that may come from my husband, verbally,or otherwise.The point in my choosing to defer to my husband in these situations is to protect myself-and part of protecting myself, for me, is to allow my husband to protect me.See, I'm not only disabled in ways that may prevent me from fighting off an attacker, or getting out of the path of a stray bullet in time, I also live in a place where guns, gangs,hard-core drug use/dealing, and general danger is imminent everywhere.For inststance, a few years ago, DH&I were leaving a bar when my husband noticed something before it registered with me-so DH grabbed my arm and pulled me behind him, yelling "get down", which I did, just in time for the car full of gangsters that I hadn't noticed pulling in to open fire on the group of people who walked out of the bar just ahead of us.A man died that night, his girlfriend and brother were both shot and wounded.I trust my husband to do his damndest to protect me....I absolutely cannot imagine trusting a man who would put me in any kind of danger.I know many women wouldn't obey a command for their own safety, which is every persons right, IMO,and I understand that.I don't understand why a woman would blindly submit to a man who does not seem to have any concern for her safety and only cares about being HOH in every way.

Since you have disabilities, in case it is better for someone to help you. That's not even the same thing as an able bodied woman blindly following her husband's commands.

[Syd+Marky]

No, it definitely is not the same thing.I seem to have missed making my point- at one time, before I came to understand fundies and learned what submission truly is, I thought, because of my situation, that I was a somewhat submissive wife.I understand, now, that my situation has nothing to do with making sure my husband is HOH, it's necessary, and therefore, not at all the same.The more I learn about truly submissive women, the less I understand them-and it's laughable to know I ever thought I could compare myself to one.

[RosyDaisy]

Yeah, in you're particular situation, I wouldn't even call it submission. It's more along this lines of helping and caring. And based on what you've posted, your husband doesn't sound like a controlling, patriarchal too like Doug Phillips is a tool (had to add Doug Phillips is a tool just cuz Doug Phillips is a tool), but a man you loves and cares about you and your safety.