Abigail Pregnant with #6

[rward]

I'm assuming you were raised Catholic, right? Concerning the bolded, this is what makes me wonder in astonishment at the Catholic Church nowadays, being all "PRO-LIFE!!!!111!!!" and churches having shrines for the unborn killed by abortion and sending teens to Washington DC to participate in pro-life marches, because although I was raised Catholic and don't remember a thing being said to me one way or the other, my husband (who went through 9 years of Catholic school) remembers hearing this same thing - the baby has to take a breath. He doesn't remember where he learned that from, but it had to have been in his Catholic school, right?

I'm 37. I went to Catholic school from preschool through 2 years of college. It's only during the last 10 years that the RCC has gone bonkers over abortion. It was a nonissue when I was active in the church. And yes, the "took a breath" thing is supposed to be the defining line for getting a mass, and that is supposed to be a Mass of Angels, not a Funeral Mass.

[Jesus Camp Counselor]

My very close friend just had a burial for a 13 week fetus that she miscarried. They had genetic testing done, and they found out it would have been a girl and named her.

They are Catholic, and a local cemetery offers free internment and a plaque for miscarriages and infant deaths. She had her priest come and do a graveside service, but I don't know if it would be considered a Mass (I'm not Catholic.) The priest did mention the "abortion industry" and how different they were because they were honoring this unborn life. :angry-banghead:

The thing I find most cringe-worthy is that her two toddlers still pray for their sister before bed at night.

I support my friend viewing her pregnancy and loss in her own way, but it has been uncomfortable. When comparing it to what I did for the deaths of my parents, I find it odd to honor a potential life the same as someone who lived for decades.

[paganhomeschooler]

I don't think that would be considered a mass, but something like a memorial service. From what I had been taught, a mass is the entrance processional, 1st reading, 2nd reading, gospel, homily, apostle's creed, our father, communion, concluding prayer, dismissal, leaving procession.

I know I'm leaving some out, but my days at Catholic school were decades ago! lol

[Mudball]

All I know is I hope she staggers out her Trust in Jesus wall decoration purchases from Hobby Lobby for the nursery over the course of the 9 months so it doesn't eat into her poverty McDonalds budget. :roll:

[duplessis3]

Sounds like her friends in the community are not onboard with this pregnancy

"People where stunned at my self-confidence at doing prayer badly while pregnant with a baby. There was all this suggestion that I'd really let God down by getting pregnant during this important year of discernment before making my temporary promise. In their minds, I should defer for a year (and then abstain from getting pregnant again) because it was critical to have a full year of prayer before making a temporary promise, and I couldn't pray "right" while I had this interference from morning sickness."

Reading between the lines, they were trying to reason with her - remember you are reading whack-a-doodle here who thinks that people that question praying while barfing is an "attack."

[lizziesmom]

WTH is the year of discernment reference? Women like her and Phyllis Schlaflay give all women lawyers a black eye.

[mockingbird]

My very close friend just had a burial for a 13 week fetus that she miscarried. They had genetic testing done, and they found out it would have been a girl and named her.

They are Catholic, and a local cemetery offers free internment and a plaque for miscarriages and infant deaths. She had her priest come and do a graveside service, but I don't know if it would be considered a Mass (I'm not Catholic.) The priest did mention the "abortion industry" and how different they were because they were honoring this unborn life. :angry-banghead:

The thing I find most cringe-worthy is that her two toddlers still pray for their sister before bed at night.

I support my friend viewing her pregnancy and loss in her own way, but it has been uncomfortable. When comparing it to what I did for the deaths of my parents, I find it odd to honor a potential life the same as someone who lived for decades.

I doubt it was a mass if there was no "church" part, there seem to be pretty stringent requirements for being able to have a mass outside of a church in my experience (grew up Catholic, went to a Catholic college where we did have an outside mass once a year haha). I think a lot of priests would be willing to do a service like that just to be nice. To them it is probably more of a blessing, and you can give blessings for whatever, while there are more rules for celebrating masses.

All of that would make me uncomfortable though. There was a family in my church like that growing up, the kids brought up their baby brother who had died during a children's event. I think I was probably 10 or so. I brought that up with my parents because I was all worried a baby had died and I felt really bad for the family. It turned out my parents knew the situation (probably from the family's fundy leanings... they were pretty well-known for that) it was actually an early miscarriage and my mom said something about how that happens to a lot of women, sometimes you think you are going to have a baby but it doesn't "stick" and it wasn't the same as a baby dying. I just feel like involving the kids seems to be putting a lot of unnecessary pain on them. In this case I don't even think the mom was far enough along that you could see that she was pregnant so who knows if the kids even knew she was pregnant/were looking forward to a new sibling until she miscarried. I'm sure it was really upsetting for the parents and I get that, I even understand the naming thing a bit if that helps you grieve (especially if it was a later miscarriage) but I don't see why you have to share that with your kids. Especially to make a big deal about how your sibling died and all that.

[Jesus Camp Counselor]

I doubt it was a mass if there was no "church" part, there seem to be pretty stringent requirements for being able to have a mass outside of a church in my experience (grew up Catholic, went to a Catholic college where we did have an outside mass once a year haha). I think a lot of priests would be willing to do a service like that just to be nice. To them it is probably more of a blessing, and you can give blessings for whatever, while there are more rules for celebrating masses.

All of that would make me uncomfortable though. There was a family in my church like that growing up, the kids brought up their baby brother who had died during a children's event. I think I was probably 10 or so. I brought that up with my parents because I was all worried a baby had died and I felt really bad for the family. It turned out my parents knew the situation (probably from the family's fundy leanings... they were pretty well-known for that) it was actually an early miscarriage and my mom said something about how that happens to a lot of women, sometimes you think you are going to have a baby but it doesn't "stick" and it wasn't the same as a baby dying. I just feel like involving the kids seems to be putting a lot of unnecessary pain on them. In this case I don't even think the mom was far enough along that you could see that she was pregnant so who knows if the kids even knew she was pregnant/were looking forward to a new sibling until she miscarried. I'm sure it was really upsetting for the parents and I get that, I even understand the naming thing a bit if that helps you grieve (especially if it was a later miscarriage) but I don't see why you have to share that with your kids. Especially to make a big deal about how your sibling died and all that.

My friend's mother lost a full term pregnancy during labor, and it was something I heard mentioned when we were children. I think they are treating the miscarriage the same way.

The kids did know she was pregnant, but I'm not sure how much they understand other than there isn't going to be a baby anymore. I just hope it doesn't confuse or upset them in the future.

[NurseNell]

WTH is the year of discernment reference? Women like her and Phyllis Schlaflay give all women lawyers a black eye.

It refers to a year of praying prior to making a permanent commitment to the religious life, in her case as a lay member.

[Dysfundamental]

WTH is the year of discernment reference? Women like her and Phyllis Schlaflay give all women lawyers a black eye.

As someone said above, it's a requirement in the process of becoming a full-fledged member of the Lay Carmelites. She basically wants a "special snowflake" exemption from completing the full process.

[Stephanie66]

There is this book: http://www.amazon.com/Still-Point-Turni ... =tay+sachs

Basically, she isn't Jewish, (her husband is) but she was born with a genetic anomaly, so she got tested for everything. The tests only cover the most common forms of Tay-Sachs, not every kind. You guessed it-their baby boy, Ronan, was diagnosed with Tay Sachs at nine months.

First-she isn't choosing to have any more biological children, because she could never put a child through that. Second, she loved Ronan with all of the world and truly believes he had a purpose on this earth. That said, if she had known before he was born, she never would have had him, because it wasn't fair TO HIM.

Compare that mother to this one, who apparently takes the genetic lottery of a disease that will cause her child pain and will, as of now, shorten his or her life and I want to hit her. It's not like she has no children...she has FIVE healthy children. Count your blessings and kiss the ground.

[GeoBQn]

Abigail talks about homeschooling while pregnant. For the last two pregnancies, she has pretty much cancelled teaching homeschool during her first trimester because of morning sickness. I think this is also the first time she's claimed to be an "unschooler."

abigails-alcove.blogspot.ca/2013/07/back-to-school-prep-portable-classroom.html

[luv2run]

In Carmel, there is a 3 year discernment process after

you've gone through two years of formation. After the

first year of formation, you receive the brown scapular,

which basically means you are now a part of that

community. After your second year of formation and being a part of the community, you are able to decide whether you want to make a Temporary Promise. This is a promise to live out the daily requirements of a Secular Carmelite for a period of three years. After this, you are able to decide if you want to make what is called a Definative Promise. Which is for the the rest of your life. Since these Promises are made in regards to not only your own personal prayer life, but its a Promise to be a part of your secular community, there is an interview process with the council members of whichever community you have been a part of. I was in the same class as Abigial was (her husband was as well). I was asked the same questions ( we all were..there were about 10 of us). I know the council members. They are good people. But Carmel is not a club or a

Bible study. It requires commitment. I don't know what was said in her interview, but I know the council members won't just let anyone make Promises if they dot feel they can't make the commitment. I've had several friends be asked to lengthen their discernment time before Temporary and Definative promises, to which they happily did.

[Jana814]

There is this book: http://www.amazon.com/Still-Point-Turni ... =tay+sachs

Basically, she isn't Jewish, (her husband is) but she was born with a genetic anomaly, so she got tested for everything. The tests only cover the most common forms of Tay-Sachs, not every kind. You guessed it-their baby boy, Ronan, was diagnosed with Tay Sachs at nine months.

First-she isn't choosing to have any more biological children, because she could never put a child through that. Second, she loved Ronan with all of the world and truly believes he had a purpose on this earth. That said, if she had known before he was born, she never would have had him, because it wasn't fair TO HIM.

Compare that mother to this one, who apparently takes the genetic lottery of a disease that will cause her child pain and will, as of now, shorten his or her life and I want to hit her. It's not like she has no children...she has FIVE healthy children. Count your blessings and kiss the ground.

I feel really sorry for the woman who wrote that book. As someone who is Jewish I know about Tay-Sachs I'm not a carrier as for as I know. The problem with Abigail is that has said she wants a child w/ CF. But I love your statement of "she has FIVE healthy children. Count your blessings and kiss the ground".

[Carla Bruni]

I'm sorry, what the fuck? She WANTS a child with CF? Does she have any idea what CF *IS*?!

I volunteered for a CF charity. NO ONE wants that for their children.

Jfc, I hope she remains barren after this one. I really do.

[ShadowyOne]

I'm sorry, what the fuck? She WANTS a child with CF? Does she have any idea what CF *IS*?!

I volunteered for a CF charity. NO ONE wants that for their children.

Jfc, I hope she remains barren after this one. I really do.

I don't think that she's ever said that she wants a child with CF (please correct me if I'm wrong). It's that she knows the odds (which she's miraculously avoided thus far), so the fact that she is so blasé about continuing to have children, knowing the chances that the next one would have CF, make us speculate that she actually wants this. It would add to her need for attention, drama, and suffering. And no, she doesn't really care how it would affect the child, only herself.

[Stephanie66]

I feel really sorry for the woman who wrote that book. As someone who is Jewish I know about Tay-Sachs I'm not a carrier as for as I know.

I believe the author's husband was also unaware that he was a carrier. Since she got tested, he didn't need to be. (I did read the book, but in pieces as it was so heartbreaking) I think as more of us marry outside of "our tribe" there are probably fewer terrified of this happening, but hers is also a cautionary tale that it can happen within other populations.

Abigails frivolity with defenseless little potential lives makes me sick.

I guess all we can do now is hope it's healthy and she stops trying to tempt fate.

[polabear]

I thought at one point some FJ peeps figured out that Abigail had to be vastly overstating the likelihood that she would have a child with CF. Or am I remembering something else?

[singsingsing]

I thought at one point some FJ peeps figured out that Abigail had to be vastly overstating the likelihood that she would have a child with CF. Or am I remembering something else?

I don't think so. Unless she's outright lying, she said that the doctors told them that any child they had would have a 1/4 chance of having CF. That would match up with them both being carriers.

I guess all we can do now is hope it's healthy and she stops trying to tempt fate.

Oh, she won't. I'm sure that ten years from now Abigail, in her late 40s, having not been pregnant for 3 or 4 years or having suffered a series of miscarriages, will be lamenting the return of her 'secondary infertility' and continuing to tempt fate as hard as she can, probably while telling everyone else how to be the best Carmelite, and writing long-winded posts about the scorn she received at the grocery store.

[Jana814]

I believe the author's husband was also unaware that he was a carrier. Since she got tested, he didn't need to be. (I did read the book, but in pieces as it was so heartbreaking) I think as more of us marry outside of "our tribe" there are probably fewer terrified of this happening, but hers is also a cautionary tale that it can happen within other populations.

Abigails frivolity with defenseless little potential lives makes me sick.

I guess all we can do now is hope it's healthy and she stops trying to tempt fate.

Off Topic but I once saw an episode of Strong Medicine, and a baby had Tay-sachs. The father was Irish but it turned out the mother was adopted, and her parents never told her. That scared the crap out of me. (even though it was a TV show)

[lawfulevil]

Cystic fibrosis has Mendelian inheritance, so 1/4 is exactly right, assuming both parents are actually carriers (Abigail could be lying about carrier status for dramatic effect). 25% is a bigger risk than I'd take, considering that CF is incurable, fatal, and immensely painful for the child. I definitely wouldn't take that risk multiple times. Like other posters have said, it seems batshit insane if you already have ONE healthy child, let alone FIVE.

Reasonably there are only two conclusions: Abigail is lying about carrier status "for Jesus", or Abigail wants a sick kid "for Jesus". Or "Mother Mary", I guess, same diff. I sure as fuck hope she's just lying about carrier status for attention.

[GeoBQn]

Off Topic but I once saw an episode of Strong Medicine, and a baby had Tay-sachs. The father was Irish but it turned out the mother was adopted, and her parents never told her. That scared the crap out of me. (even though it was a TV show)

Irish Catholics and French Canadians are also at risk for being Tay Sachs carriers.

[singsingsing]

Irish Catholics and French Canadians are also at risk for being Tay Sachs carriers.

I did not know that about French Canadians. I'll definitely be having myself tested before I choose to have kids.

[alysee]

I did not know that about French Canadians. I'll definitely be having myself tested before I choose to have kids.

As half French Canadian, I didn't to know this until I went for genetic testing at 17. I am thankfully to not be a carrier. There was speculation that I could be because my grandmother had a sibling die at age 2 that had a progressive neurological disorder of some sort. It was at least one weight off my shoulders when I was really worried about passing on my shoddy genes.

[anjulibai]

I did not know that about French Canadians. I'll definitely be having myself tested before I choose to have kids.

I did not know this either. My DH is half French Canadian, and I am a quarter Irish (and that side was Catholic). Crap. We have one child, who has no issues, but now I am wondering if we should get tested before we have another.