Model behavior with the Moodys

[SamuraiKatz]

Read this. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/spycatcher/201208/dangerous-cult-leaders It has the traits of a cult leader and is written by a former FBI agent. How many fundie men who head "ministries" sound like a lot of traits on this list?

Thank you for the link. The list...IS rather eerily accurate when it comes to cult leaders, car sales men and politicians... esp. Bill Gothard...and by extension any "patriarch" who subscribes to the Gothard "teachings" and Stevehova--The Maxwell site at one time had a link to S.M. Davis' ministry. The teachings of S.M. Davis are creepily similiar to Bill Gothard! :pink-shock:

[gustava]

Of the people we read about on this forum, there are sooo many who have red flags for being a narcissist or sociopath, especially fundie patriarchs. Steve Maxwell, Bill Gothard, Michael Pearl....That list is scarily accurate.

I wonder if fundamentalism is appealing to these sort of people because they can run their ministry and/or family like a cult and have ultimate control and twist religion to suit their needs.

Yes, for those we snark about. And some are truly evil.

[Vex]

This is kind of off-topic, but I was inspired to give ZsuZsu's blog the Gizoogle treatment.

gizoogle.net/tranzizzle.php?search=http%3A%2F%2Fstevenandersonfamily.blogspot.com%2F&se=Go+Git+Dis+Shiznit

If anyone is curious.

[Shoes Grace]

The dog thing, I bet Steve is of the school who believes that animals have no souls, which makes them less "valuable" than people. Steve probably only consented to getting the dog to give Jesse some kind of "manly" job. He was 11 or so when they got her right? Can't have the boy doing too much cleaning.

[Jana814]

There are some Fundi families who live the lifestyle they do because they genuinely think they are living the way they should. I really don't think this is true for Steve. I think he became more deeply involved in religion because he saw that he could use religion to control his family and those around him. I don't believe he became more and more religious as his beliefs became stronger, I believe he saw that religion would give him control so he delved deeper in it.

Agree!

[TMS]

Haven't read through all the posts here but wanted to respond to something.

I wonder if the unmarried adult children in the Maxwell family are still required to address adults as Mr./Mrs.

I think they are. I wrote a message to Sarah a few years ago and she was probably 25 at the time. She addressed me as "Mrs Last Name" even though I introduced myself with my first name. I only signed the message with my first and last name. And I'm only about 12 years older than her.

[Ex 2x2]

We love our dogs so much in this house, we've never even thought of telling our kids it's a different love or we don't love them as much as the kids or any such thing. We are those annoying people who refer to ourselves as mommy and daddy to the dogs. I would SO much rather my kids see that than see us refusing to admit that we love the dogs. Those people are so messed up.

Someone mentioned how clear it is that they see the people they interact with in the books as other and less than. They so clearly do. People are just there to be ministered to. Sad, really.

[JesusFightClub]

That was the least convincing handyman I've ever seen in print. And a really shit rendering of dialect, too.

Three year olds of my acquaintance don't talk like that either. Smaller is the one I know the best and while she can't pronounce all words perfectly (she would be stumped by "countenance" and "proverbs") she doesn't say "I hot!" or the like. The strangest thing about them is that they haven't quite got a handle on conversation and see it as a series of announcements, not a dialogue. Example from lunch at my mum's house:

My mum (to the adults at the table): "I wonder what the royal baby's name will be. I suppose they might pick... "

Smaller *interrupting*: "Look! Grandma, look! It's a cheese!" (displaying a slice of cheese in a packet).

Mum: "So it is, Smaller. Are you going to be a good girl and eat the cheese? Anyway, as I was saying..."

Smaller: "Yes! I like cheese! Look at this, Grandma!" *starts wiggling about in her chair*

Mum: "That's lovely, Smaller. Are you going to eat the cheese?"

Smaller: "Yes! But I'm just only dancing!"

I honestly can't see her discussing verses she'd remembered, or indeed anything for any length of time. They like silly stuff (ask me about the Sneezing Pirates, or actually don't), you paying attention to them, playing the same game over and over, new things (Smaller stares enraptured out of the window on car journeys and gives you a running commentary on what she can see) and drawing pictures. Also, they don't retain things fantastically. You have to keep reminding them unless they can see a practical connection (ovens are hot and burn you, so we say "Ouch! Hot! I won't touch that!"). Theoretical concepts are pretty much lost on them.

I dunno what the Maxwell kids are like, but if their small children are radically different from other small children going through the various developmental stages, I think that's less Godly and more a cause for concern.

[lizziesmom]

There are some Fundi families who live the lifestyle they do because they genuinely think they are living the way they should. I really don't think this is true for Steve. I think he became more deeply involved in religion because he saw that he could use religion to control his family and those around him. I don't believe he became more and more religious as his beliefs became stronger, I believe he saw that religion would give him control so he delved deeper in it.

That is way too close to the Rev. Jim Jones for me.

[fundiefan]

That is way too close to the Rev. Jim Jones for me.

I absolutely agree. Steve's religion is his tool, not his conviction. He's a seriously sick man who is allowed to run ripshot over his family and anyone he comes in contact with because it's in the name of his religion and no one is allowed to prevent religious beliefs. His god is his shield from being treated like the abhorrent human he is.

[Hane]

I agree with fundiefan: Steve's religion *is* his tool (and coping mechanism), not his conviction--and the sad part is that he isn't even conscious of the fact.

And JesusFightClub is one zillion percent right on about the way *real* littles talk. The best toddler dialogue in stories is what's transcribed from real conversations, like the one above. (I once wrote a story based on an interchange with my four-year-old niece. When I read part of it at a comedy show, the parents of littles howled with laughter--and recognition.)

[danvillebelle]

I agree with fundiefan: Steve's religion *is* his tool (and coping mechanism), not his conviction--and the sad part is that he isn't even conscious of the fact.

And JesusFightClub is one zillion percent right on about the way *real* littles talk. The best toddler dialogue in stories is what's transcribed from real conversations, like the one above. (I once wrote a story based on an interchange with my four-year-old niece. When I read part of it at a comedy show, the parents of littles howled with laughter--and recognition.)

This. When my sons were about 6 and 4, they had a hysterical conversation that started with can you get to heaven in an airplane, and ended with the emphatic statement from the 4yo "Of course airplanes have butts. Everything needs a butt." I wish I'd written the whole thing down for posterity, but we say "everything needs a butt" often in our house, lol.

[Arete]

My niece is going to sadly rue the day her four year old self asked me to stand watch while she went to the toilet. I assumed she needed help getting her pants up. Her outraged self explained she was quite capable of getting her pants back on, but needed me "To pull me out in case I get stuck in the toilet". I'm saving it to tell at her wedding.

She wasn't and still isn't much for memory verses.

[marmalade]

I still treasure my autographed copy of "Summer..." like 2 animal crackers. I have no clue when Sarah signed it, but she writes like a 3rd grader just learning cursive. I realize she probably signed for a child, but something tells me that's her everyday handwriting.

As I noted in the other thread, she's using more active voice now (HI STEVE!!!!!), but the writing is still awkward and the scenarios stilted.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I still treasure my autographed copy of "Summer..." like 2 animal crackers. I have no clue when Sarah signed it, but she writes like a 3rd grader just learning cursive. I realize she probably signed for a child, but something tells me that's her everyday handwriting.

As I noted in the other thread, she's using more active voice now (HI STEVE!!!!!), but the writing is still awkward and the scenarios stilted.

Well, she WROTE the book when she was 21, so she had to be at least 21 when she signed your copy!!

(Mine is not signed, so I don't know what her handwriting looks like.)

[Jana814]

Maybe in someways that reason why Sarah wrote these horrilbe books, is she wants to show parents how their kids should be like and not part of the "world" as Steve says. They can talk about how the kids did this and that when they were kids, but that is only second hand. I also kind of think that Steve forced her into writing these books because she was not married and their were now potential suiters on the horizon.

[FloraDoraDolly]

I've only read the first few books in the series. Apparently, in the new book one elderly neighbor character gets married to another. I find that interesting that Sarah has chosen to write about a late-in-life marriage. I wonder if that's what she envisions for her own future?

[marmalade]

Well, she WROTE the book when she was 21, so she had to be at least 21 when she signed your copy!!

(Mine is not signed, so I don't know what her handwriting looks like.)

Trust me, my 10 year old niece has more mature handwriting. Her writing seriously looks...forced...as if Steve-o doesn't allow any individuality in that area of life, either. Write like the letters that are modeled above most elementary school chalkboards (and in some homeschool classrooms I've seen) or else.

I went back to school late in life and was able to objectively view many 21 - 25 year old youn ladies' handwriting in many different scenarios. Never did I see the capital "S" written as you're taught to write it in the 3rd grade. The only people I know who still use it are older women; I worked at a bank for years and the traditional "S" was used by little old ladies named Sally (like my MIL).

Then again, my MIL exhibits about as much individuality as a Maxwell, so it's not really surprising that her handwriting is boilerplate.