Debt-free homes

[lilwriter85]

I can't get over how (seemingly) healthy their family appears to be when you consider their attitude towards safety precautions and healthy eating. Aside from Josie nobody else has had any issues requiring hospitalization or on-going treatment that I know of aside from the infamous orchestra pit fall. It seems like every family I know of personally has had something: diabetes, MS, breast cancer, heart problems, epilepsy, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, carpel tunnel, Epstein-Barre. narcolepsy, this is just a sampling of the major illnesses that my friends and relations have. I, myself, have to have major surgery this fall due to a genetic problem. Do I just happen to know sick people or are the Duggars incredibly lucky? I keep expecting to hear that one of their kids has badly hurt themselves because they were not wearing proper shoes or helmets or seatbelts. Plus, Mullet and Boob are getting older and I would not be surprised to hear of one or the other getting treated for cancer or heart disease.

Health problems are bound to happen in any family and I also wouldn't be surprised if Boob and Mullet have health problems in the future. If Boob, Mullet or one of the kids became physically disabled after an accident I can see them possibly having financial problems. My boyfriend's mom is a retired occupational therapist and she has worked quite a bit with spinal cord injury patients. Many of her patients experienced some financial hardships after becoming disabled even the ones who were insured. Insurance policies can exhaust or sometimes insurance companies will not pay certain for therapies or equipment. This may sound weird, but I have a feeling that some kind of tragedy will happen to the Duggars someday.

[spinsterwv]

The TLC gravy train will end completely at some point for the Duggars. I think Boob has been socking away money, but despite that there are always chances they might encounter financial problems in the future. Boob, Mullett, or some of the kids could end up with health problems or other things might happen could bring financial problems to the Duggars. Boob will likely set up some of the boys with businesses, but I predict some of the businesses will not be successful.

Boob really only has to find businesses for half the children. The girls will either marry, remain stay at home daughters or perhaps take a Gothard approved path as doula or midwife. Even that path, Boob would cosider more of a hobby.

As for the boys, I'm assuming the car lot will be passed down to another son. While the vehicles are shit, I gather they over financed them through the lot with really high interest. If the customer falls behind, they send amother Duggar out to repo it. Then they sell it on the lot again. The biggest risk would be customers that are upside down, but they are probably selling them for twice what they paid. With little to no repo cost, they're probably making a nice profit. They can employ several sons between lot management, sales and towing. It's not rocket science either.

I would guess that Josh has made it clear he plans to be a politician/consultant/Christian speaker type person. Other Christians love to give money to people like that, so I imagine he won't be broke. You don't have to know what you are talking about. They actually prefer less education, homeschooling and smugness. I imagine he will do respectfully well as a fundie figurehead.

For the kids they don't funnel into the car lot, I imagine at least a couple will sell real estate and parlay some of Boob's business sense into property investment. I'm pretty sure both Boob and Michelle were licensed at one time. It would have saved sales commission and given them accesss to the MLS system. Plus they could make self employed money.

Proably at least a couple or three of the young ones will fly the coop. If they don't, Boob could probably afford a decent stake for startup. Of course, the rest will depend on the kid.

As for the rank and file, self employment without debt is probably a fantasy for most. Even first generation.

[JesusFightClub]

Did anyone notice the "ad" on page 9 of that October 1997 NGJ newsletter? It says that some american fundie man completed his ESL teaching certificate and will begin to teach english in Laos. It then states that Laos is closed to missionaries (aka "no proselitizing, m'kay??") but no, this douchecanoe will teach ESL with, ahum, the King James bible as main manual. I have no love for communists but I (almost) wish that he'd get caught and got to serve a little bit of time in a light work camp with no bibles allowed, only socialists and commie thinkers's works blasted through his cell in english...

If that this missionary did is not hypocrisy and disobeing an authority, what is it then?? :think: Gotta love the Pearls and others like them they think that rules only apply to others... :angry-banghead:

I do have love for communists, and I totally agree.

What kind of twat thinks you can teach people English via the King James Bible? I've got my EFL certificate too (and it's EFL, not ESL, which is different - if you are teaching people from Laos the rudiments of English you are teaching English as a foreign language, not as a second language). One of the things we are taught is use of up-to-date, modern English - the KJV fails on all counts there. Students need to know how to speak basic English, not how to communicate in archaic fashion.

Aside from the problem of old-fashioned English, he isn't teaching them what they (presumably) paid for, so he's a thief and a liar (I think the Bible speaks strongly against both of these). He's actually harming them, because outdated English has many pitfalls. In my TEFL class we had a trainee teacher who used a textbook with a beginning English class which used the word "negro". For some of our students that word became a false friend - it sounded like their word in their own languages for a black person, so they used it. So I had in my class students who, when we were doing an exercise to describe a friend, self-corrected "He/she is a black person" to "He/she is a negro". :pink-shock:

I am also strongly opposed to using taught English as an ideological tool. I'm delighted if my students read the Communist Manifesto. I want them to read it in their own original languages. It does not exist to teach students who need to know things like "Where is the toilet?" Even for much more advanced students, I would not recommend the Manifesto - I would suggest instead reading newspapers or trying to understand TV broadcasts in English. They (I hope) might read political literature in their own time, but it is not part of my class to push my politics on them.

We did have one EFL teaching student who wanted his classes to understand LGBT issues. A laudable aim, but not even slightly appropriate for people from ex-Eastern Bloc countries or Middle Eastern countries where LGBT rights aren't even on the agenda. So he would show his (beginner English) class pictures of gay rights parades and get angry at them if they used the wrong pronoun to describe the marchers...

Student *laughing* : A he or she?

Annoyed teacher: "Whatever zie wants to be known as."

Student: ?????

There's also the separate issue that students you teach may not be literate in their own languages. This is something, if I ever went back to teaching, I would like to be involved in. Teaching immigrants who don't speak even basic English and can't write in their own tongue is a challenge, but I think a useful one. Chucking the KJV at them would terrify them and you'd not see them again.

The KJV as a teaching tool is a terrible idea all around.

[scc12]

The car lot Josh 'ran' on the show was apparently sold to some one else bf he left for DC.There was a pic of it on his instagram.

So it seems it was just a prop for the show anyway,and didn't bring in a lot of money,else I presume Jim Bob or one of the older boys would have taken it over.

[Miggy]

I can't get over how (seemingly) healthy their family appears to be when you consider their attitude towards safety precautions and healthy eating. Aside from Josie nobody else has had any issues requiring hospitalization or on-going treatment that I know of aside from the infamous orchestra pit fall. It seems like every family I know of personally has had something: diabetes, MS, breast cancer, heart problems, epilepsy, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, carpel tunnel, Epstein-Barre. narcolepsy, this is just a sampling of the major illnesses that my friends and relations have. I, myself, have to have major surgery this fall due to a genetic problem. Do I just happen to know sick people or are the Duggars incredibly lucky? I keep expecting to hear that one of their kids has badly hurt themselves because they were not wearing proper shoes or helmets or seatbelts. Plus, Mullet and Boob are getting older and I would not be surprised to hear of one or the other getting treated for cancer or heart disease.

Jordyn is allergic to a type of antibiotics. (Ice storm episode.) Joanna had some sort of surgery on her face to repair an injury. (Podcast.) I think they have all the regular illnesses and injuries of childhood but only choose to show us a few. Funny really: they are happy to show us many visits to the dentist but keep medical stuff quiet.

[bananacat]

The car lot Josh 'ran' on the show was apparently sold to some one else bf he left for DC.There was a pic of it on his instagram.

So it seems it was just a prop for the show anyway,and didn't bring in a lot of money,else I presume Jim Bob or one of the older boys would have taken it over.

There's no way it could have been successful with Josh showing up late every day and being so lazy. Funny though how they're willing to extend credit to others for their own profit but not willing to take out any debt for themselves, even though the Bible makes it clear that the money lenders are the bad ones, not the borrowers. Oh wait, not funny, it's hypocritical.

[lilwriter85]

I was a bit surprised that Boob didn't keep the car lot around for Josiah. I was always a bit annoyed with how on the show the Duggars made it seem as if Josh was the real owner of the lot, but Boob was the owner. I think the Duggars never expected that some viewers would do public records searches. I remember a couple of years back on IMDB, links to public records site were posted to show that Boob was the real owner. The leghumpers kept trying to defend their lies.

[alba]

The thing I don't get about debt-free, no exceptions, is that by the time you have enough saved up for a house, it won't be enough. House prices are rising like it's going out of style, and in many areas have easily doubled in the past decade. So say you save up £1000 a month (which is a lot if you're renting, but feasible if you're working at a bit over minimum wage and staying with your parents). In ten years, that's £120 000. At the moment that'll buy you a decent 2-bedroom flat somewhere like Edinburgh, or a 3-bedroom house in most of the country (and maybe a closet in London). In ten years' time, however, you're not going to be getting a nice family home for £120 000. A 1-bedroom flat, maybe. You'll have to save up for another ten years for a family home, only then - you get the gist.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Did anyone notice the "ad" on page 9 of that October 1997 NGJ newsletter? It says that some american fundie man completed his ESL teaching certificate and will begin to teach english in Laos. It then states that Laos is closed to missionaries (aka "no proselitizing, m'kay??") but no, this douchecanoe will teach ESL with, ahum, the King James bible as main manual. I have no love for communists but I (almost) wish that he'd get caught and got to serve a little bit of time in a light work camp with no bibles allowed, only socialists and commie thinkers's works blasted through his cell in english...

If that this missionary did is not hypocrisy and disobeing an authority, what is it then?? :think: Gotta love the Pearls and others like them they think that rules only apply to others... :angry-banghead:

Oh this sort of thing pisses me off no end.

Some years ago when I working as a dishwasher, the big cafeteria I worked at was serving all meals to one of the larger evangelical Christian conferences for college-aged people in the country. Lots of sweet overtime hours (this was over winter break when the usual college student population was out of town - they had to let fundies use their rooms over break!) and plenty of fundies. Seminars, seminars, seminars, small group Bible study, big group Bible study, amazing fundie t-shirts... and of course, opportunities for eavesdropping on fundie conversations. Lots of posters for sessions.

Well, there was a session about teaching English in Asia, and about how you can work the gospel in. I kid you not. Had a poster for it and everything. The idea was to get a job teaching English at the "usual" places but then work the Bible in.

It was not my place to talk to any of these people and so I didn't say anything but man, it made me mad to see that.

If someone wants to teach English out of the Bible, fine. But they need to be HONEST that that's what they're doing on all the class advertising. The idea of getting a job at one of the usual big English-class juggernauts and then all of sudden, bait and switch BIBLE TIME! on people who paid for normal English lessons? That's just offensive.

ETA: And I have to agree with JesusFightClub that such a class, honestly advertised, probably wouldn't get many takers unless there were truly NO other opportunities around. Because yeah, KJV? Not exactly useful for your basic needs in 2013.

[patsymae]

I don't see how they can be sustainable at all. The closest example I can think of is the Amish--also fundie, also large families, also off the grid, no education past 8th grade, and their own collectives for things like health emergencies. And they are not able to sustain a rural, self-sufficient way of life. Almost everybody, even those who own farms (now a minority) has to have a regular job or at least one business that caters to the outside world/tourist trade. Even the married women work outside or have home-based businesses, and it isn't to pay for their designer shoes or trips to Europe.

There's a limit to how many family-owned tree-cutting, lawn care, used car, etc. businesses can operate in any georgraphic area, and even mommyblogs and etsy crafts will reach a saturation point.

Then what?

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Then what?

Then you get jobs working the assembly line in RV factories in Indiana, leading regular "heathen" residents to question just why your kids can take those jobs at 14 when other kids have to wait until 16.

[patsymae]

Yeah, you can do that if you're Amish (not defending it at all), but what if you're a Duggar?

[uber frau]

They can join the migrant labour in the agriculture or construction industries , be paid a pittance until their bodies wear out and spend the rest of their lives living on the charity of the local soup kitchen.

The woman can go and join a cleaning company, I guess. Both paths are pretty dire; very hard work with minimal financial reward.

[Stephanie66]

$39 can get you a 3 bedroom in Detroit. No windows, and your house may be filled with squatters and look like it's in a war zone, but it's affordable housing.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhom ... I553624565

I'm assuming that's a cash sale?

I have a friend who still lives near where we grew up. She is on SSDI, food stamps and rental assistance. She told me she was buying a house! I asked her where she was buying a house that would not take up her entire income? She said, "Austin, MN" and showed me this: http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhom ... 07?row=208

Sham-Wow. It has central air and everything!

[longskirtlotsakids]

Right, that house deal looks swell at first. But a roof on that house will run $10k, and dont get started on what plumbing can go for. If it has foundation or structural issues, she can be in the hole for what she paid for that house.

Home ownership is like horse ownership- the purchase price isn't the final say if you can afford the house. Heat(which in a poorly insulated house can be costly) home insurance, repairs, lawn mowers, property taxes, etc, are what break you.

[Miggy]

Good comparison that, horse to house.

It for Joseph Maxwell as he has the skills to renovate and a free labour force. We decided that spending extra in the purchase would work out better in the long run than buying cheap and renovating. However, we forgot to include council rates in our original budget. Lucky Mum picked it up before we got too far. It could really have overstretched us.

[Stephanie66]

Right, that house deal looks swell at first. But a roof on that house will run $10k, and dont get started on what plumbing can go for. If it has foundation or structural issues, she can be in the hole for what she paid for that house.

Home ownership is like horse ownership- the purchase price isn't the final say if you can afford the house. Heat(which in a poorly insulated house can be costly) home insurance, repairs, lawn mowers, property taxes, etc, are what break you.

I tried to (gently) explain this. Her monthly income is less than 1K a month (I mean, she gets food stamps! Her income has to be pretty low for that) and she is in section 8 housing. I owned a house as a single parent and it isn't all it's cracked up to be. Yes, there are freedoms with home ownership, but burdens as well. I remember lots of house repairs, and my house was pretty new. Cracked cement, plumbing, ceiling...ugh, the list went on. And you have to have the money, because most were do or die. Plus, carpeting wears out, walls need to be repainted...just the regular stuff that her landlord takes care of now.

I think she is forgetting (I didn't say this, because that would be rude) that the taxpayers are currently covering a huge chunk of her living expenses. Her rent and utilities/heat are stabilized at 1/3 of her income. She has no idea how much propane costs, or even a normal electric bill. She has been sheltered (pun intended) from all of that by living in section 8 housing for so long. We spend more than her entire income just to exist, and we aren't extravagant by any stretch.

[Maggie Mae]

One of the biggest problems with living in these areas with the cheap housing is the lack of employment, as well. Sure, someone could buy a house in a small town, for cheap, but where are you going to work to make house payments and pay for food and property taxes and insurance and repairs and entertainment? Not to mention that most small town are insular, in that they aren't going to hire outsiders over a local. Sure there are bedroom communities to move to so you could commute, but with gas prices, that's going to cost you. The places with very low cost housing are very low cost for a reason. Usually poor or no public transportation, bad weather or air, lack of opportunity, or high crime.

I think the only reason some of these people are able to live this lifestyle is because they didn't start with nothing. They have the benefit of college educations and probably loans they aren't disclosing. Not to mention that back in the 60s/70s (where a lot of these people get their inspirational stories about working a minimum wage job washing dishes) it was still possible to work for minimum wage- because minimum wage was worth more.

[Clementine]

I wonder... in Sweden there are areas where the houses are dirt cheap, like $50 000. But they are cheap for a reason and that is because there are no jobs in the area so people are leaving and the ones that stay usually have low-paid service jobs, are retired seniors or unemployed and struggling.

It would be hard to start a business there and be successful when the potential costumers have little money to spend and usually have a lifestyle where they try to do as much as possible themselves when it comes to repairing cars, houses, gardening and cleaning, so there's no demand for those kind of services.

Is it the same in the US? And if so, how do the fundie sons who start their own businesses plan to support their families, even if they own their home? They will have to get cash to pay for gas, heating, electricity, taxes etc somewhere.

[1004srs]

I paid cash for my home. I am a single Mom and don't have a huge income. I just found a deal. I do most of the work myself from materials that I get from Restore, Lowe's clearance racks, and save up for major stuff.

I did find a great plumber that owns a home near mine. He took care of my plumbing issues for $90. Extra house calls have been free.

I do need new electrical. I have to save up $3K for that.

[Mudball]

We also paid cash for our homes, starting small and slowly moving up until we got into the house we live in now - where we want to stay. It's absolutely a trade off, lots of time and labor for saving money. In each of the houses we bought, though, the essentials were good - no new roof needed, or huge plumbing jobs, or major rewiring. We live on a very modest salary, so not having a mortgage over our heads is a relief.

[Cleopatra7]

People who are acting upon religious beliefs are more than willing to brave poverty if they believe that doing so will bring celestial rewards. Forcing adherents into what amounts to multi-generational poverty might doom a secular movement, but not a religious one. The Haredim in Israel are in a similar situation (e.g., elderly well-off people subsidizing their children and grandchildren), and seem to be doubling down on isolating themselves.

[1004srs]

I was looking at HUD information on the internet. Instead of using your Section 8 housing allowing for rent, you can use it to buy a home. This is for several different states.

http://www.nyshcr.org/Programs/section8hcv/hcvp00.htm

Didn't break the link because it is a state website.

[August]

We also paid cash for our homes, starting small and slowly moving up until we got into the house we live in now - where we want to stay. It's absolutely a trade off, lots of time and labor for saving money. In each of the houses we bought, though, the essentials were good - no new roof needed, or huge plumbing jobs, or major rewiring. We live on a very modest salary, so not having a mortgage over our heads is a relief.

This requires three things, though. You have to start early with a big seed so you have the $100,000 for the one bedroom condo when it's just you. Your family has to grow slowly enough and stay small enough so you can fit them in the next size up, and (this is the biggie) the value has to increase while you have it to both finance a bigger place and cover realtor's fees and closing costs. If you plan to upgrade in five years then the house has to have appreciated by 8% over that time just to break even.

[Mudball]

We live in a rust belt town in the mid west. The seed money to buy our first townhouse at a tax auction was literally 1/10th of that. Lol. It had huge holes in the drywall, every room had been spray painted, and it was the site of a well publicized crime (but not a murder). We took a chance and it turned out well for us.